T3i or G12?

So I'm in the market for a camera. Been using nothing but point and shoots but just got engaged and feel that we might need a better camera to document our new adventures.

We are planning a 2 week honeymoon trip to Europe and would like a quality camera but that won't feel like a hassle to carry around. On amazon, I can get a T3i with the kit lens and EF-S 55-250mm for $888.95.

The alternative would appear to be a G12 for $469.00.

So the question is, given that we would keep this camera for a long time and our trip is far enough away that I would have time to learn how to use the T3i, does it make sense to spend almost twice the cost of the G12?

I'll check out the two cameras at a store and get a feel for the physical size difference, but what has your experience been using the T3i on vacation and would we be better off just getting the G12?

Thanks

I have the T3i and its one heck of a camera. I also have that 55-250mm zoom lens and its a very good lens, maybe the best all around of the non-L zooms. The T3i is feature packed and a book from David Busch is almost a must to fully understand what you have. If you can afford the T3i then go for the T3i. Don't worry about being able to use the camera, its very easy to use right out of the box.

If you want a zoom in zoom out with fast focus video this is not the camera for you. It is slow to focus in live view video mode. most video you will see shot with this camera is static shots on a tripod where lots of fast focusing isn't needed. The video it makes that way is great but I suggest a dedicated camcorder for fast action video.

Personally I only take a compact on international trips and have not regretted it. Camera bags are cumbersome, attract attentention and are often taken off you when entering museums, shows, churches etc. Using the G12 well (no high ISOs above 400) will get you images even into semi-professional applications. Check out the galleries here on dpr if you haven't already done so.

Moving around Europe with just the G12 is just more relaxing and allows you pictures you will not, can not or dare not take with a full DSLR outfit.

Regardless whether you opt for DSLR (forget the 18-55 IS and get a 15-85 mm IS)

or compact (G12 is great), make sure your GF/wife also has a camera along. This could be an S95 or a good Ixus/SD. That way you always have a backup camera and you will have a partner who will be much more sympathetic to your photographic wishes (and probably take many excellent pictures you would have missed - nobody sees everything).

Cheers and happy travelling, Ralph
--

• -Better a small camera in the pocket than a big one on the shelf --

I, too, take only a compact when abroad, in my case a G10 with an S95 in my shirt pocket as a back up. If you have time you might wait to see if and when a successor to the G12 comes out, going by past announcements we should hear within a month or so.

RL

regardless of which way you go, don't make the mistake of thinking you won't need to spend a meaningful amount of time figuring out how to use the G12. I own a DSLR and a G11. I would say the amount of time I have spent learning how to use each properly is only slightly heavier for the DSLR than for the G11. Since the G11 doesn't offer much in the way of DOF control, you don't need to know quite as much about aperture. The G series gives you a lot of direct control options and you won't come close to maximizing the usefulness of that camera if you shoot green auto all the time.

Make a decision soon and spent as much time as you can shooting with whatever you buy before you go.

for a honeymoon, I would opt for the G12 over the DSLR but I agree with another poster -- have a second point and shoot. also have an extra battery for each.
--
RaymondR

You know, that's a tough call. The t3i will definitely do the following things better -

1. Indoor lighting with no flash. You need a "prime" lens for this, but a dslr is much, much better - like if you want to take pictures at dinner, or of practically anything in the evening. You don't have any zoom then though (or have to switch lenses to get zoom).

2. The shot-to-shot speed on a dslr (the time between when you take a shot and when you can take the next shot) are much better.

3. So is the autofocus lag (often called "shutter lag"), much better on the dslr.

Honestly, it's a tricky question to answer - where are you going on your honeymoon?

If you don't need a ton of zoom, you might also want to consider the Olympus xz-1 - it doesn't zoom as far, but it does better in low light than the Canon g12 because of it's better lens for low light...not than any of these cameras are going to do great for typical evening lighting without using the flash. A lot of people also buy a Canon s95 and a dslr - the s95 is the best "jeans pocketable" compact camera you can get right now, and it's fairly easy to take it with you everywhere. The dslr is then used for situations where camera portability isn't as important.

Just mentioning things that people do.

Easy, buy a G12 and an S95 so each of you can have a camera in your hands

We are most likely going to Paris for a couple of days and then take off on a European/Mediterranean cruise for 7 nights.

I took a look at the G12 in the store and while it was smaller, it still wasn't exactly pocketable. So my thoughts were to get the T3i and the S95 or future replacement. The T3i should be more than enough camera for us for the future and will give me an exciting new learning project.

We will wait on purchasing the S95 for the price drop that should be coming once the replacement is announced and released.

So, I went ahead and ordered the following for $1,000:

Canon EOS Rebel T3i with EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS Lens
Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4.0-5.6 IS Telephoto Zoom Lens
Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II Camera Lens
Transcend 16GB Class 10 SDHC Card

The price didn't seem bad for the equipment and from what I have been reading should be more than enough to keep me busy learning.

Any tips on where to start the learning process? Also is it wise to invest in something like Lightroom at this point? I can get the education pricing.

Thanks

Oh awesome!

The only item I would hesitate on is the 50mm lens - you do need a prime, and the 50mm is definitely the cheapest. But on a Canon crop dslr (pretty much all dslr's are crop if they cost less than $2,500, lol) there's something called a 1.6x crop factor. It means that a 50mm lens is 50*1.6=80mm...ok maybe that it's helpful - it means that you get a lot of fixed zoom with a 50mm lens. 50mm was a common standard in the film days, but to get the same amount of zoom you have to get something equivalent - like the 35mm lens is more expensive, but it's 35mm*1.6=56mm equivalent.

35mm is so popular that in nikon land they made a separate 35mm lens for their crop dslr's (though to had to to have one at all - but that's a different story).

It's just a thought - plenty of people do get the 50mm lens, you just get a lot of closeup shots.

As for Lightroom, be aware that you get a raw conversion program for free with any Canon camera that shoots RAW (so both the t3i and s95) that does RAW conversion referred to as dpp. I just bought Lightroom myself, and it's a mixed bag between Canon's dpp and Lightroom - Lightroom has more options and more flexibility and does cool stuff like highlight and shadow recovery better, but dpp often does a better upfront job with colors and pulling a little more detail out of the raw file without requiring any tweaking. This is a common source of debate on retouching forums, lol, so...just fyi.

I do think, personally, that dslr+s95 is definitely the way to go.

FJG3 said:

I have the T3i and its one heck of a camera. I also have that 55-250mm zoom lens and its a very good lens, maybe the best all around of the non-L zooms.

Click to expand...

I can't see it being better than the 17-55 f/2.8 IS that sells for $900. No way.

FJG3 said:

The T3i is feature packed and a book from David Busch is almost a must to fully understand what you have. If you can afford the T3i then go for the T3i. Don't worry about being able to use the camera, its very easy to use right out of the box.

If you want a zoom in zoom out with fast focus video this is not the camera for you. It is slow to focus in live view video mode. most video you will see shot with this camera is static shots on a tripod where lots of fast focusing isn't needed. The video it makes that way is great but I suggest a dedicated camcorder for fast action video.

Click to expand...

PaulRivers said:

Oh awesome!

The only item I would hesitate on is the 50mm lens - you do need a prime, and the 50mm is definitely the cheapest. But on a Canon crop dslr (pretty much all dslr's are crop if they cost less than $2,500, lol) there's something called a 1.6x crop factor. It means that a 50mm lens is 50*1.6=80mm...ok maybe that it's helpful - it means that you get a lot of fixed zoom with a 50mm lens. 50mm was a common standard in the film days, but to get the same amount of zoom you have to get something equivalent - like the 35mm lens is more expensive, but it's 35mm*1.6=56mm equivalent.

35mm is so popular that in nikon land they made a separate 35mm lens for their crop dslr's (though to had to to have one at all - but that's a different story).

It's just a thought - plenty of people do get the 50mm lens, you just get a lot of closeup shots.

Click to expand...

No, not if you "just" move back you don't. 50mm is fine on a camera like a T3i. 50mm field of view (35mm lens) make you get rather close to a person, child, baby, to fill the frame with them. So a little distance is helpful to get push your camera in someone's face all the time!

PaulRivers said:

As for Lightroom, be aware that you get a raw conversion program for free with any Canon camera that shoots RAW (so both the t3i and s95) that does RAW conversion referred to as dpp. I just bought Lightroom myself, and it's a mixed bag between Canon's dpp and Lightroom - Lightroom has more options and more flexibility and does cool stuff like highlight and shadow recovery better, but dpp often does a better upfront job with colors and pulling a little more detail out of the raw file without requiring any tweaking. This is a common source of debate on retouching forums, lol, so...just fyi.

I do think, personally, that dslr+s95 is definitely the way to go.

Click to expand...

RedFox88 said:

FJG3 said:

I have the T3i and its one heck of a camera. I also have that 55-250mm zoom lens and its a very good lens, maybe the best all around of the non-L zooms.

Click to expand...

I can't see it being better than the 17-55 f/2.8 IS that sells for $900. No way.

Click to expand...

lol, the 55-250mm is way, way, way better if you need 400mm-equivalent zoom.

Being a little less of a smartass, I think that's probably what the poster meant when he mentioned a "zoom" lens. Though I agree that the 17-55mm is almost certainly better if you're in that zoom range.

RedFox88 said:

No, not if you "just" move back you don't. 50mm is fine on a camera like a T3i. 50mm field of view (35mm lens) make you get rather close to a person, child, baby, to fill the frame with them. So a little distance is helpful to get push your camera in someone's face all the time!

Click to expand...

No, I agree - if what you want is a ton pictures of people's giant faces filling the entire picture, 50mm (80mm-equivalent) is perfect. Several friends of mine own dslr's, and that's all they ever post, lol - one person's head filling up the entire picture.

But if you want to take a picture of, say, your wife across the table with the restaurant in the background, that's going to be a lot easier with a 50mm-equivalent lens than an 80mm-equivalent lens...actually it's still going to be pretty close with the 50mm-equivalent, the 80mm-equivalent might actually require you to back up to get any shot at all.

Shooting 50mm-equivalent is nowhere near putting the camera "in their face", that's just ridiculous. Frankly most compacts are 24-28mm and 50mm-equivalent is way more zoom than people are used to already.

I have the G12 and Canon XSi with the kit lens and 55-250 (and a few other lenses). The XSi is 4 generations back from the T3i. I really like both cameras but if one had to go it would be the G12. The G12 is a great little camera that I use when I don't want to be bothered lugging a DSLR but when it comes to flexibility and image quality the DSLR wins. The DSLR also wins in performance - I would hate to try and use the G12 for action shots. I'm not saying it can't be done, just that the DSLR is much better suited for it. The G12 wins in portability and convenience. If you are serious about photography I would recommend the DSLR. If you just want a convenient camera with good image quality (and a good amount of flexibility for a point and shoot) for mostly snapshots I would go with the G12. You can get some beautiful images with the G12 but if you are really serious you will outgrow it.

Why not get the G12 and if and when you outgrow it you can pick up a DSLR that will be even better than the T3i. If you find it's enough camera for you, then you saved a bunch of money. I did that when I started out. I bought a S3IS and found I really loved photography so I saved up for a DSLR and ended up with one a couple generations newer than what I would have got when I bought the S3IS. If I didn't really get into photography I'd still be using the S3IS and I'd have a lot more money in the bank (I bet my wife wished that was the case - lol).

--
-Bill

http://www.billmcbridephotography.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/billsphotos/

Traveling is so much more pleasant with the G (or an SX) rather than an SLR.
If you want to do active things like bike riding an SLR is really in the way.

It sounds like you are not used to an SLR so you won't be missing anything.

The G is capable of very good pictures in the right hands.
It mostly lacks zoom range if that's a problem.

Speed is probably not an issue for travel photos most of the time.
The SLR would be better in low light but that rarely comes into play either.

I have a 60D and a G11 that gets used a lot more than the 60D.
It's very capable and very easy to carry.
You can always get an SLR later if/when you really need its capability.

--
Vince

PaulRivers said:

RedFox88 said:

No, not if you "just" move back you don't. 50mm is fine on a camera like a T3i. 50mm field of view (35mm lens) make you get rather close to a person, child, baby, to fill the frame with them. So a little distance is helpful to get push your camera in someone's face all the time!

Click to expand...

No, I agree - if what you want is a ton pictures of people's giant faces filling the entire picture, 50mm (80mm-equivalent) is perfect. Several friends of mine own dslr's, and that's all they ever post, lol - one person's head filling up the entire picture.

Click to expand...

You can have a person's face fill the frame on 20mm or with 200mm it all depends on what the photographer does. You can not have a face fill the frame with 50mm on aps-c if you shoot from an appropriate distance. Don't let your gear dictate how your photographs turn out!

PaulRivers said:

But if you want to take a picture of, say, your wife across the table with the restaurant in the background, that's going to be a lot easier with a 50mm-equivalent lens than an 80mm-equivalent lens...actually it's still going to be pretty close with the 50mm-equivalent, the 80mm-equivalent might actually require you to back up to get any shot at all.

Click to expand...

PaulRivers said:

Shooting 50mm-equivalent is nowhere near putting the camera "in their face", that's just ridiculous. Frankly most compacts are 24-28mm and 50mm-equivalent is way more zoom than people are used to already.

Click to expand...

50mm FOV is rarely considered a good focal length on full frame for portraiture of a single person. Better recommendations are 85mm or longer and ironically a 50mm lens on aps-c is a 80mm FOV.

Well we *could* just keep saying the same things again and again and again, lol...but I don't think repeating myself a third time is really going to help anyone.

All of these things are a matter of preference and depends on shooting conditions, etc. That is just my feeling on the different lenses - 80mm equivalent is good for taking pics of people that keep you far enough away that they don't notice you as much, but 50mm-equivalent is better if you're trying to take pics with people you're with without backing up out of the group or away from the person.

If the OP got the 18-55mm they could see for themselves if more zoom at the far end would appreciates or hated. The s95 lets you set the mm-equivalent zoom range with the front ring if you want, another way to experiment - I just personally don't like a ton of zoom. I've heard many other people agree with my 50mm-equivalent sentiment, many other people prefer the 80mm-equivalent...not much more for me to say.

FYI: I pocket my G12 all the time. It's bulky but it fits in my pocket, both jeans and cargo shorts, and I'm 5'7 and 170 lbs so it's not like I have huge pants on. It's a noticeable bulge, but I don't mind it.

I usually read all the replies on a thread before putting my own two cents in, but I didn't and here goes:

I'm assuming you haven't owned a DSLR before and have no idea of the learning curve. To buy one and take it on this trip would be madness. However, if you took the G12 you'd be in familiar territory.

I'm not saying the T3i isn't a great camera but don't saddle yourself with this learning curve just yet. Besides, keeping the G12 as a backup is a great idea. Look for one on your local Craigslist, you don't need to pay retail at this point in its life cycle.

Well, I've got both cameras at the minute - credit card's completely crushed now - and both are astonishing bits of kit. However, I got my G12 before my 600d (T3i) and have not used the compact much since the arrival of my dSLR: this may be due to the fact I am more comfortable using a full-size camera with a change of lenses than a compact camera, I don't know.

What I can say is they both take superb pictures and if you're not clued on photography, then both will hold your hand until you learn to leave the auto settings. Personally, the G12 performs astonishingly for a camera that has a sensor the under size of your little finger naill!

Below are two shots from each camera.

Canon G12:









Canon 600d/ T3i: