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The GXR+ m mount will face major competition from Sony NEX7

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The M-Module will have mechanical( 180- 1/4000 sec) and electronic shutters( 1 - 1/8000), B and T too with 180sec automatic limit.
1/180 sec flash-synch

http://www.fotointern.ch/archiv/2011/08/04/ricoh-gxr-aps-c-modul-fur-leica-m-objektive/

sorry german only but one can check data.
Tom Caldwell said:
rondom said:
(just spent a week with nex 5, the ergonomics/handling was surprisingly good, UI bad-no easy way to change controls without dwelling into the menu-but one eventually can get used to it, IQ very good-even with the kit lens)
but shutter noise was the major turn off...
Yomama said:
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-confirmed-two-nex-cameras-coming-late-august-available-in-october/

Of course, NEX7 is only a rumored product and no one has seen any prototype of the camera, but if rumor is true, It will be release in October, around the same time as GXR M mount. Since both has the same APS-C and I think Sony will keep the latest sensor for their use this time around...... and the NEX7 will have a build in EVF. Hopefully GXR+m mount will be a bit cheaper with better UI than Sony. Also Sony should have a new sensor. More advantages.
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Yes "clack clack" the NX does too as do the M4/3 as far as I know. The M module will have a focal plane shutter to add to the symphony. Seems that a mechanical shutter is more precise and with a shutter the sensor runs cooler and makes less noise in images.

--
Tom Caldwell
Click to expand...
 
Pangloss said:
Not only because of the NEX-7. Let's check the competition:
  1. Used Leica M8 rangefinder bodies.
  2. NEX bodies with an inexpensive adapter.
  3. Samsung NX bodies with an inexpensive adapter.
  4. All m4/3 cameras, with an inexpensive adapter.
Apart from the excellent Ricoh UI (not geared for manual focusing lenses anyway), the GXR + M-mount combo doesn't have a single compelling competitive advantage over any of the products listed above, in fact it has quite a few significant disadvantages when compared objectively:
  • Price . The GXR body + M-mount adapter + EVF combo is expected to cost around $1600. That is more than twice as much as one would pay for a NEX-5 body with kit lens!
  • Ease-of-use/ergonomics . Obviously the M8 being a true rangefinder camera is the best solution for manual focusing M-mount lenses. But the Ricoh A12 units also have a gigantic unadressable issue when manual focusing: the old sensor doesn't provide proper live view zoom capabilities. As all present GXR owners know, the 2x, 4x and 8x zoom option just expands the normal 1x screen pixels, it's not a real live view zoom per se, as that provided on e.g. NEX or Panasonic GH bodies.
  • Outdated Sony CMOS 12MP APS-C sensor . The 12MP sensor has been superceded by the 14 and 16MP Sony sensors nowadays found in NEX bodies and will be completely overshadowed by the 24MP APS-C sensor that Sony will premiere in the NEX-7 and A-77 cameras, which will launch before the GXR M-mount unit becomes available in November this year.
  • Other less significant, but still important disadvantages ot the M-mount module are the lack of proper movie support, lack of sensor cleaning, lack of stabilization, a probably noisy shutter mechanism, limited lens availability, etc.
I am still wondering what marketing data Ricoh gathered to justify the R&D investment in the M-mount module.
--
Andrew
Panasonic LX3, Ricoh GXR w/ A12 28&50mm user
Click to expand...
The alternative electronic shutter is noiseless. Is the mechical shutter inside the module? if yes then its maybe improved.
module should be available sept. 9.
 
Pangloss said:
  • Price . The GXR body + M-mount adapter + EVF combo is expected to cost around $1600. That is more than twice as much as one would pay for a NEX-5 body with kit lens!
Click to expand...
Thankfully your prices have turned out to be wrong.

GXR body $349
EVF $219
M module $649 MSRP (normally lower)

That's only $1217

I've read that the NEX-7 will be around the same
 
Hi,
nilux said:
Pangloss said:
  • Price . The GXR body + M-mount adapter + EVF combo is expected to cost around $1600. That is more than twice as much as one would pay for a NEX-5 body with kit lens!
Click to expand...
Thankfully your prices have turned out to be wrong.

GXR body $349
EVF $219
M module $649 MSRP (normally lower)

That's only $1217

I've read that the NEX-7 will be around the same
Click to expand...
The $649 MSRP for the M-mount module is surprisingly low, considering:
  1. The present and expected future yen/dollar exchange rates.
  2. The use of a customized version of the aging, but still very good Sony 12MP CMOS sensor.
  3. The new focal plane shutter, developed specifically for the M-mount module.
  4. The considerable amount of work on the camera firmware to facilitate manual focusing and to minimize issues with wide-angle lenses (given the short flange distance of the M-mount).
However, $1217 for a mirrorless APS-C compact body with a clip-on viewfinder still places this combo in the premium category. Alternatively, you can get a Nikon D7000 body for less money, or a Pentax K5 body, or two Pentax K-r bodies with spare change!

The Sony NEX-7 has many features that are simply not available on the GXR + EVF + M-mount module; I don't think Ricoh expected that kind of competition. If the NEX-7 costs approximately the same as the GXR combo, Ricoh will have a very hard time selling its kit.
--
Andrew
Panasonic LX3, Ricoh GXR w/ A12 28&50mm user
 
dear andrew, most of your predictions about the m module turned out to be wrong,

i don't really mind or care and certainly would't want to use it against you, but it amazes me how you keep on speculating over non existing gear...

where do you get your information from? and how can you be so sure? fascinating...
Pangloss said:
The Sony NEX-7 has many features that are simply not available on the GXR + EVF + M-mount module; I don't think Ricoh expected that kind of competition.
Andrew
Click to expand...
 
Pangloss said:
  1. The use of a customized version of the aging, but still very good Sony 12MP CMOS sensor.
Click to expand...
sensor is not customized - just the regular toppings like organic microlenses and CFA and savings in the form of not including AA filter are covering for that.
Pangloss said:
  1. The new focal plane shutter, developed specifically for the M-mount module.
Click to expand...
you mean mechanical one ? probably just procured from the companies that do that as their business like Copal or whatever... 1/4000s shutters are low cost commodity.
Pangloss said:
  1. The considerable amount of work on the camera firmware to facilitate manual focusing
Click to expand...
there is nothing complex to code focus peaking...
 
Godfrey said:
Why is having 24 Mpixels on an APS-C format sensor desireable? What does it bring to the table other than even bigger files to process, requiring more memory, more disk space, more processing power, etc? Is that huge number of additional pixels really relevant to anything other an typical marketing spin and boosterism?
Click to expand...
so far every iterations of Sony's APS-C sensors w/ more pixels were bringing more DR (helpful in postprocessing if you will make an error w/ exposure or if you are dealing w/ really challenging scene) and less noise (which is also why one of the reasons DR is more)... it might bring you 60fps or 120fps readout instead of 30fps - that will greatly help CDAF (just see the difference between EP3 generation of Olympus cameras and their previous models as soon as Panasonic allowed Olympus to get a 120fps readout sensor) and LV... you can resize from 24mp to your 12mp and get free NR and mask demosaicing artefacts or just use fast demosaicking by combining RGBG sensels into one to make a 6mp image instead of interpolating... you can crop more... you will get still more resolution out of each and every lens - because you can't name (I challenge you) a 3rd party test where the same lens mounted on a camera w/ Sony 6mp lens was making less or the same numbers as w/ Sony 12mp sensor, the same is true for Sony 12mp vs current Sony 16mp, the same will be true for 12mp vs 24mp...
 
Hi,
exdeejjjaaaa said:
Pangloss said:
  1. The use of a customized version of the aging, but still very good Sony 12MP CMOS sensor.
Click to expand...
sensor is not customized - just the regular toppings like organic microlenses and CFA and savings in the form of not including AA filter are covering for that.
Click to expand...
The previous sensor used in the other A12 modules was not capable of electronic shutter operation. This one is. Electronic shutter operation requires added circuitry on the sensor, which leads me to believe this is a custom version.
exdeejjjaaaa said:
exdeejjjaaaa said:
  1. The new focal plane shutter, developed specifically for the M-mount module.
Click to expand...
you mean mechanical one ? probably just procured from the companies that do that as their business like Copal or whatever... 1/4000s shutters are low cost commodity.
Click to expand...
Ricoh claims it was developed in-house, specifically for the M-mount module. Whether they sublet production of the shutter to an external company or not (a common practice in Japan) is another matter.
exdeejjjaaaa said:
exdeejjjaaaa said:
  1. The considerable amount of work on the camera firmware to facilitate manual focusing
Click to expand...
there is nothing complex to code focus peaking...
Click to expand...
As a past firmware engineer, I always smile when some people claim that implementing an algorithm is simple, or "nothing complex". Besides, you have edited my post. Ricoh did a considerable amount of work on the M-mount module firmware, not only to implement focus peaking, but on many other points.

--
Andrew
Panasonic LX3, Ricoh GXR w/ A12 28&50mm user
 
Pangloss said:
As a past firmware engineer, I always smile when some people claim that implementing an algorithm is simple, or "nothing complex".
Click to expand...
that is exactly why you are "past" ... present do not smile, but rather do the job.
Pangloss said:
Besides, you have edited my post.
Click to expand...
I did not edit - I quoted the part to which I replied
 
Pangloss said:
The previous sensor used in the other A12 modules was not capable of electronic shutter operation. This one is. Electronic shutter operation requires added circuitry on the sensor, which leads me to believe this is a custom version.
Click to expand...
this is not a global shutter, dear... see the difference
 
exdeejjjaaaa said:
Pangloss said:
As a past firmware engineer, I always smile when some people claim that implementing an algorithm is simple, or "nothing complex".
Click to expand...
that is exact
Click to expand...
I am happy that we agree on this point. :)
exdeejjjaaaa said:
exdeejjjaaaa said:
Besides, you have edited my post.
Click to expand...
I did not edit - I quoted the part to which I replied
Click to expand...
Oh, I see. Then we are all agreed... and you are ignored! :)
--
Andrew
Panasonic LX3, Ricoh GXR w/ A12 28&50mm user
 
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