Who needs a video or still camera these days.

Sorry to hear about your financial circumstances. However, not everyone lives in such dire financial straits.
I didn't mean to sound as if I was complaining; I took a job with a small, Christian, non-profit organisation and knew going in that it would require a life-style adjustment in terms of what I could and couldn't afford. Any financial shortfall was more than made up for by working with wonderful people and helping in a worthwhile cause, and I stayed with that outfit for 15 years serving in a variety of capacities. I put off putting a phone in my home long after the point I could comfortably afford it simply because I enjoyed not having one (no one could complain about my not answering my phone when I didn't have a phone to answer). Work conditions with respect to hours and flexible schedules eventually made it necessary to have the quick, easy communication that a home phone provided.
When I think of all the things my smart phone can do, it's nothing short of amazing. In fact, talking on the phone is actually one of the least things I do with it! Amazingly, even if my phone didn't have voice calling, it'd still be an incredibly useful, indispensable and worthwhile device to have. Doing voice calls is just an added bonus! So to hear you say of your phone: "it sits on my desk at home where it belongs", is just sad.
I think it's great that you and others enjoy your smart phones and all the things they can do for you, and you've painted a clear and compelling picture of how your life is enhanced by all its capabilities, but please don't think it sad just because others don't share your enthusiasm for them. Talking on the phone, reading and writing e-mails, looking up information on the web, etc., etc., are all tasks I simply prefer to do at home. I've thought it "sad" that there are people who seem uncomfortable leaving these things behind when they go out, but perhaps it's really just a matter of their choosing, like I have done, where and when they want access to this technology.
 
The new Nokia N9 gets better, the sensor is optimized for 16:9 and 4:3 is more sensitive with bigger pixels at 8MP(down from 12MP) has a f.2.2 lens and in top of that is smaller than the N8.

http://image-sensors-world.blogspot.com/2011/07/nokia-n9-flagship-camera-phone-goes.html
The problem with Nokia is that the company is going downwards with a loss of $488m and share halved.
Its the Apple's Mojo.
Research In Motion (blackberry) is in trouble too, hell even Microsoft.
 
The new Nokia N9 gets better, the sensor is optimized for 16:9 and 4:3 is more sensitive with bigger pixels at 8MP(down from 12MP) has a f.2.2 lens and in top of that is smaller than the N8.

http://image-sensors-world.blogspot.com/2011/07/nokia-n9-flagship-camera-phone-goes.html
The problem with Nokia is that the company is going downwards with a loss of $488m and share halved.
Its the Apple's Mojo. RIM (blackberry) is in trouble too, hell even Microsoft.
I looked at the N9 product specs and was very surprised that it is running some weird OS, not Windows 7.

Didn't Nokia just agree to put Win7 on their smartphones? At least Win7 is usable, according to friends. Never heard of MeeGo and I am not sure it works in the US.

Gawd, Europe foisted that awful GSM travesty on us, and now this. MeeGo sounds like a children's toy, maybe a tricycle.
 
You realize you don't have a leg to stand on regarding smart phones, so now you're going to obsess about web cams? LOL.
If you think that there's something to laugh about in your rant, then you should get off the phone. Go out for a walk with no phone and just look and listen. You may even relax, though perhaps you have a relax.app on your iphone??
This may come as a surprise to luddites and technophobes,
This is true, painfully true. I don't even have electricty, and wouldn;t know how to use it, even if I did. I communicate via mind beams, levitation, and thought control.
but phones can be turned off or silenced at will. And I always go hiking with my phone...silenced of course, but always handy to have just in case something happens.
I'm sure you have it with you 24/7/365. In the modern world, no one can function without easy access to this gadget device
Besides, the phone's GPS capability comes in handy for the past time of geocaching (if you don't know what that is, look it up). And I also have a compass app on my phone.
This explains the hours of time I spend lost in the woods or the beach. Heck, lost in the woods? I get lost when I go around the corner. What would other people do without having GPS always availbale is too mind knumbing to contemplate.
The notion that people can't "relax", "look" and "listen" just because of the existence of a phone is silly fear mongering.
How did you know that we are trying to terrify people? Here's a hint. When we start talking about cancer. Then you'll know we're fear mongering. But gosh, no one brought it up. Cross your fingers...
A smart phone is simply another tool, like a pocket knife or a compass. Also, as photographers, we have trained ourselves to 'relax, look and listen' for photographic opportunities. And just because you happen to have a phone with you doesn't suddenly negate that ability. No need to pointlessly vilify just another tool of the modern age.
Aren't you getting a little bored with this constant repition of the fantasy, that because someone doesn't need a cell phone, then they must be against cell phones? I mean really, is this a side effect of owning one?
This whole discussion reminds me
I'm sure it reminds you. But I doubt if it reminds anyone else. In fact I can't even recall such statements, and I've been on this board since 2001. To refresh your memory, people started to complain about the LCD screen when it started to replace the OVF. That debate is ongoing, and isn't over yet. It isn't over because while eventually an EVF will replace an OVF, and LCD on the back of a camera, will NEVER replace, or be better than a viewfinder.
of the early days of digital photography, where the older generation of photographers lambasted the rear LCD as something that was going to ruin photographers...that people would spend all their time "chimping" rather than taking photos of the environment around them.
Why so short? Surely since you've demonstrated your ability as a fantasy writer you can expand on what one person may or may not have apochyphically said. I certainly never heard it.

Maybe you're confusing those who shoot film with those who shoot digital?
And yet, somehow, photography has survived (and flourished) just fine, in spite of those rear LCD's. Just another case of people pointlessly vilifying a technology and proposing doomsday scenarios that never came to pass.
Just a case of someone making up a silly scenario.

Ad you STILL haven't explained how watching people pass you closely in real life is INFERIOR to watching them on a Web Cam.

That make four posts in which you've dodged the question. Not bad. Going to go for five?

--
"Everyone who has ever lived, has lived in Modern Times"
 
The problem with Nokia is that the company is going downwards with a loss of $488m and share halved.
Its the Apple's Mojo. RIM (blackberry) is in trouble too, hell even Microsoft.
I looked at the N9 product specs and was very surprised that it is running some weird OS, not Windows 7.
Gawd, Europe foisted that awful GSM travesty on us, and now this. MeeGo sounds like a children's toy, maybe a tricycle.
I agree 'meego' is a silly name.

However it has (had) the possibility of being the best OS for any phone. Intel is actually still behind it. Pardon the simplified explanation:

It is a Linux operating system, a Linux 'distribution'. It can run linux programs.

Android is a 'virtual machine' running Java apps on top of a Linux kernel.
 
Sorry to hear about your financial circumstances. However, not everyone lives in such dire financial straits.
I didn't mean to sound as if I was complaining; I took a job with a small, Christian, non-profit organisation and knew going in that it would require a life-style adjustment in terms of what I could and couldn't afford. Any financial shortfall was more than made up for by working with wonderful people and helping in a worthwhile cause, and I stayed with that outfit for 15 years serving in a variety of capacities. I put off putting a phone in my home long after the point I could comfortably afford it simply because I enjoyed not having one (no one could complain about my not answering my phone when I didn't have a phone to answer). Work conditions with respect to hours and flexible schedules eventually made it necessary to have the quick, easy communication that a home phone provided.
When I think of all the things my smart phone can do, it's nothing short of amazing. In fact, talking on the phone is actually one of the least things I do with it! Amazingly, even if my phone didn't have voice calling, it'd still be an incredibly useful, indispensable and worthwhile device to have. Doing voice calls is just an added bonus! So to hear you say of your phone: "it sits on my desk at home where it belongs", is just sad.
I think it's great that you and others enjoy your smart phones and all the things they can do for you, and you've painted a clear and compelling picture of how your life is enhanced by all its capabilities, but please don't think it sad just because others don't share your enthusiasm for them. Talking on the phone, reading and writing e-mails, looking up information on the web, etc., etc., are all tasks I simply prefer to do at home. I've thought it "sad" that there are people who seem uncomfortable leaving these things behind when they go out, but perhaps it's really just a matter of their choosing, like I have done, where and when they want access to this technology.
Stinking heretic! How dare you make the (ludicrous) claim that anyone can survive in todays complex world without a smart phone?

How dare you claim that you're very existence isn't a threat to T3's peace of mind?

Some day there will be a law mandating that everyone has a cell phone. What are you going to do then heretic? You're going to be toast, that's what you're going to do once the Holy Cell Phone inquisition comes pounding on your door!

Dave
--
"Everyone who has ever lived, has lived in Modern Times"
 
Ad you STILL haven't explained how watching people pass you closely in real life is INFERIOR to watching them on a Web Cam.

That make four posts in which you've dodged the question. Not bad. Going to go for five?
Uh, I didn't "dodge the question." I explained it in an earlier post. Whether you watch people in a web cam, or I go out and shoot some HD video with my 60D, or we all stand on a corner together, the facts are the same: the smart phone hasn't turned people into hordes of Zombies like out of a Sci-fi film, as you claim. LOL. Delusional as always.

Keep shaking your cane, old man.
 
I agree 'meego' is a silly name.

However it has (had) the possibility of being the best OS for any phone. Intel is actually still behind it. Pardon the simplified explanation:

It is a Linux operating system, a Linux 'distribution'. It can run linux programs.

Android is a 'virtual machine' running Java apps on top of a Linux kernel.
Thanks for the explanation. Sounds good, I like Linux.

However I still say GSM is awful, especially in the US where we have vast open spaces mixed with dense cities with too few cell towers. CDMA produces better voice quality in both cases. GSM is only good for sending short text messages.
 
Sorry to hear about your financial circumstances. However, not everyone lives in such dire financial straits.
I didn't mean to sound as if I was complaining; I took a job with a small, Christian, non-profit organisation and knew going in that it would require a life-style adjustment in terms of what I could and couldn't afford. Any financial shortfall was more than made up for by working with wonderful people and helping in a worthwhile cause, and I stayed with that outfit for 15 years serving in a variety of capacities. I put off putting a phone in my home long after the point I could comfortably afford it simply because I enjoyed not having one (no one could complain about my not answering my phone when I didn't have a phone to answer). Work conditions with respect to hours and flexible schedules eventually made it necessary to have the quick, easy communication that a home phone provided.
When I think of all the things my smart phone can do, it's nothing short of amazing. In fact, talking on the phone is actually one of the least things I do with it! Amazingly, even if my phone didn't have voice calling, it'd still be an incredibly useful, indispensable and worthwhile device to have. Doing voice calls is just an added bonus! So to hear you say of your phone: "it sits on my desk at home where it belongs", is just sad.
I think it's great that you and others enjoy your smart phones and all the things they can do for you, and you've painted a clear and compelling picture of how your life is enhanced by all its capabilities, but please don't think it sad just because others don't share your enthusiasm for them. Talking on the phone, reading and writing e-mails, looking up information on the web, etc., etc., are all tasks I simply prefer to do at home. I've thought it "sad" that there are people who seem uncomfortable leaving these things behind when they go out, but perhaps it's really just a matter of their choosing, like I have done, where and when they want access to this technology.
Stinking heretic! How dare you make the (ludicrous) claim that anyone can survive in todays complex world without a smart phone?

How dare you claim that you're very existence isn't a threat to T3's peace of mind?

Some day there will be a law mandating that everyone has a cell phone. What are you going to do then heretic? You're going to be toast, that's what you're going to do once the Holy Cell Phone inquisition comes pounding on your door!

Dave
More delusions, huh, Dave? The issue isn't whether people can or can't survive without a smart phone. The issue is whether smart phones have had the terrible effect (turning people into hordes of zombies like out of a sci-fi film) as you seem to think. If you want to live without a cell phone, good for you. But to claim that people who use smart phones are "Zombies" and are "not connected" is just foolish, fear-mongering bias.

I have many, many colleagues and friends who have only recently moved from a regular cell phone to a smart phone, and every one of them has praised the benefits, efficiencies, freedoms, and utility that their new smart phone has given them. It makes them more connected with the world at large. But if that's not your cup of tea, that's fine. Just stop calling these people Zombies that are unconnected to the world. If anything, they are far more connected to the world than you are! They can turn off their cell phone if they need to, then turn it on if they need to. They have the freedom to adjust and tailor their level of "connectedness"...do they want to connect only with their immediate environment, or do they want to connect to their immediate environment plus the greater world at large? This might be a bit too much for you to comprehend, Dave, but it's something that millions and millions of people are doing on a daily basis.

If you want to argue against smart phones, it's a losing battle, Dave. It's like arguing against indoor plumbing, or home electricity or home PC's in centuries past. The smart phone is here to stay, and will be continuing to expand and evolve while you are rotting away in old age. And pretty soon, it will literally become the equivalent of an electronic wallet (or purse) as we become able to use our smart phones to pay for things at the store (as is already commonplace in Japan and other more technologically advanced Asian countries). But feel free to keep shaking your cane in anger, Dave. Just know that you're screaming against the unstoppable tide of normal modernization and technological evolution.
 
I think it's great that you and others enjoy your smart phones and all the things they can do for you, and you've painted a clear and compelling picture of how your life is enhanced by all its capabilities, but please don't think it sad just because others don't share your enthusiasm for them. Talking on the phone, reading and writing e-mails, looking up information on the web, etc., etc., are all tasks I simply prefer to do at home. I've thought it "sad" that there are people who seem uncomfortable leaving these things behind when they go out, but perhaps it's really just a matter of their choosing, like I have done, where and when they want access to this technology.
Actually, many of us have the opposite strategy of "leaving these things behind when they go out." We want to get as much of this stuff done while we are out and about so that when we get home, we have less "work" to do, and can just relax and enjoy our home life. The last thing I want to do is save it for when I get home! I'd rather get things done if I'm waiting for an appointment at the dentist's office, or in line at the DMV, or waiting for a client or friend to meet me at the local coffee shop. So by the time I get home and think of all the small tasks I needed to get done (make phone calls, check emails, look up information on the web) I can say, "Oh, yeah, I already took care of that! Now I can just relax at home!"

Of course, you've chosen the opposite strategy, which is fine, too. And obviously, if I'm "going out" for recreational purposes, I don't use my phone for "work". It's more like "hey, let's find a great restaurant to go to in this part of town" or "hey, what are the show times for that movie we wanted to see" or "hey, Sally wants to meet at such and such place for coffee...I need to find directions to that place." And yes, it's a matter of choosing "where and when they want access to this technology." I'm just choosing not to save it for when I get home to do all these things. But of course, economic circumstances certainly play a part in one's choices as well.
 
The new Nokia N9 gets better, the sensor is optimized for 16:9 and 4:3 is more sensitive with bigger pixels at 8MP(down from 12MP) has a f.2.2 lens and in top of that is smaller than the N8.

http://image-sensors-world.blogspot.com/2011/07/nokia-n9-flagship-camera-phone-goes.html
The problem with Nokia is that the company is going downwards with a loss of $488m and share halved.
Its the Apple's Mojo. RIM (blackberry) is in trouble too, hell even Microsoft.
I looked at the N9 product specs and was very surprised that it is running some weird OS, not Windows 7.

Didn't Nokia just agree to put Win7 on their smartphones? At least Win7 is usable, according to friends. Never heard of MeeGo and I am not sure it works in the US.
Nokia is like a chook running around without its head. It was Symbian, then Maemo, then Meego, then symbian again now to be windows 7, it’s like being on a ship where the captain changes his mind about the direction every hour.
I have jumped off the Nokia ship after a bad experience with their N900.
Have always been a Nokia user, but they have lost me for good.
 
I have to say, I am addicted to my iphone 4 with over 100 apps (no games) and those apps are so important in my daily routine at home, at work and when I travel.
 
but I can assure you that people with smart phones aren't anywhere near as "unconnected" and "cut off" as you seem to think they are!!! LOL.
i dare to say that 90% of these user are social networking something like facebook or twitter, in their point of view they are connected, it's a dead loop, when all your friends and your family even your dad are using iphone to connect facebook, you really can't say no or refuse.

for me I am sick of facebook, and tired to check the pages for every minute, so I quited it with TV long time ago, and now I have more time to focus on my photography, I always wanted to create something special, and can touch everyone heart, only quitting facebook and TV can make it possible.
 
I agree 'meego' is a silly name.

However it has (had) the possibility of being the best OS for any phone. Intel is actually still behind it. Pardon the simplified explanation:

It is a Linux operating system, a Linux 'distribution'. It can run linux programs.

Android is a 'virtual machine' running Java apps on top of a Linux kernel.
Thanks for the explanation. Sounds good, I like Linux.
The explanation wasn't quite entirely full or accurate.

Android is also based on Linux. I don't know how much more closely MeeGo resembles a standard distro.

Dalvik (VM part of Android) is not really a JVM; it doesn't run 'Java apps' as such, it runs apps that just happen to be written in the Java language but with a different set of libraries and compiled to a different bytecode. This is not a subtle distinction.

Edit: It is also worth pointing out that as well as Java (language) based programming, Android has an 'NDK' (Native Development Kit) which allows code to be written in a compiled native language (C++ etc). AFAIK there always needs to be some Java boilerplate around the outside but in the case of something like a game for example this might be quite minimal.

--
Peter

 
A Swiss penknife may well have a saw, a screwdriver and a pair of scissors on it. But this doesn't stop people buying those separate items does it? Multi-tools are never as good as specific single designs...ever.
Do I make my point?
Jules

--
Julesarnia on twitter
Vibeke Dahl on Twitter is..
https://twitter.com/DahlPhotography
 
Hi Relate,

You have a good point: the IQ of certain camera phones can be more than sufficient for many a purpose. You were a bit funny here, though:
I know all the purists will say, there is no zoom, etc etc but it really does make me think about having a pocket camera or just a Nokia N8.
A zoom is no reason for a purist to get a camera. Interchangeable lenses are. With a fixed zoom, you can do basically one thing: rock back and forth, hoping that you happen to find a focal length that does the trick. With interchangeable lenses, you can:
  • add a zoom and do everything the fixed zoom camera can
  • add a ultra wide angle zoom or a super tele zoom and do much more than the fixed zoom camera can
  • add a fast prime and do photojournalism/portraits/low light work
  • add a macro lens, extension tubes, bellows and dive into the world of macro photography
  • connect your camera to a telescope for astrophotography
  • remove your lens and convert your camera to a pinhole camera
  • buy convertor rings and work with older lenses: the best manual focus lenses rival any of the zooms and can sometimes be €50 or cheaper
  • play around with special effects like the LensBaby, Diana/Lomo lenses and others
... and probably a lot more that you can't do with an N8.

One thing that is frequently forgotten on this forum is that photography is a very rich and diverse field. Reading here, you'd think it's about getting the best compact (or replacing that by a camera phone), or getting the best DSLR with lots of lenses (all selected based on benchmarks, not on example photos) and then publishing your photos online or printing it with an inkjet. Fortunately, everything related to light is also photography, which keeps it interesting after the gear obsession becomes boring.

Peter.

--
gallery at http://picasaweb.google.com/peterleyssens
blog at http://lightchangesstuff.wordpress.com/
 
Now you actually make the statement that the N* "comes pretty close to an SLR?

These are NOT thumbnails, they are 100 percent crops...
Not sure what you mean... my pictures were also cropped, they were not resized. I was like 100 meters from the building.
 
Thank you. My first response with this is that the image quality is about comparable to my 3MP Kodak I purchased in 2002 for $700 (still can't believe I did that). The images artifacts are terrible and you can't make any normal sized prints.

I'd not even make this into an 8"x10" which is my now my normal snapshot.
 

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