Selling my Sony a700 and buying a Panasonic m43, but which one?

I currently have a Sony a700 with several lenses (18-250, 10-20, and 50 1.4) as well as a Canon SD700. Neither get used! The Sony is simply too big and heavy to lug around, especially now that we have a toddler to deal with. The Canon is too limiting, particularly the narrow zoom range and relatively large DOF.

So what to do? Sell the stuff that's been collecting dust for years and buy a new camera!

I've narrowed it down to the Panasonic GF3 and G3. I would LOVE to get a body with IBIS, but the Olympus bodies don't appeal to me.

I'm not a pixel peeper, so I'm not too concerned about IQ differences between the GF3 and G3. I also don't plan on shooting movies much. The important differences for me are the G3's EVF and tilt/swivel screen.

I have owned a camera with a tilt screen, so I know that I would use it. However it's not a deciding factor. But would I miss having an EVF? Is it really that hard to frame a shot with a large lens on a m43 camera without an EVF? Does anyone have the 14-140 or a similar sized lens and use the main screen to compose shots?

Obviously the best camera is the camera I have with me, which is the whole reason I'm getting m43. If it's too big or awkward to carry, it's no better than the Sony. Still, this will be our only camera going forward, and I don't want to buy something that's limiting - then it's no better than the Canon!

Any advice?

nullspace said:

I have owned a camera with a tilt screen, so I know that I would use it. However it's not a deciding factor. But would I miss having an EVF? Is it really that hard to frame a shot with a large lens on a m43 camera without an EVF? Does anyone have the 14-140 or a similar sized lens and use the main screen to compose shots?

Click to expand...

The 14-140 is (I think) the heaviest and certainly one of the largest lenses made specifically for m43. I use it a lot on my GH2. I almost always use the EVF but it is certainly quite possible to frame and shoot using the LCD screen. In bright light outdoors though it is not so easy.

It will seem very big indeed on the GF3 I would think. I have shot the 45-200 on an E-P1 however by cradling the lens with my left hand - about the only possible method on such a small camera.

nullspace said:

Obviously the best camera is the camera I have with me, which is the whole reason I'm getting m43. If it's too big or awkward to carry, it's no better than the Sony. Still, this will be our only camera going forward, and I don't want to buy something that's limiting - then it's no better than the Canon!

Any advice?

Click to expand...

Can I suggest - of the two I think the G3 would be preferable for you. It is small and light yet has a good EVF and reasonable grip, better physical controls and the same touchscreen. Hence it will be more flexible in use bearing in mind that the main limiting factor in terms of size is not the camera but the lens. When you need real portability you can use a small & light lens (e.g. the 20mm pancake), yet the camera will also work well with the larger/heavier lenses in the range.

For a kit with a similar coverage range, the m43 gear will be much smaller and much lighter than your Sony.

Regarding your fears of being limited by the camera you choose, I think it is unlikely - have a look at the work of some of the fine photographers on this forum, Bob Tullis, Sam Bennett or Ray Sachs for instance - and see what you think. They all shoot, or have shot, m43. It may depend also on the type of shooting you intend to do. If you can, try out both G3 and GF3, as well as others, before you decide.

nullspace said:

I currently have a Sony a700 with several lenses (18-250, 10-20, and 50 1.4) as well as a Canon SD700. Neither get used! The Sony is simply too big and heavy to lug around, especially now that we have a toddler to deal with. The Canon is too limiting, particularly the narrow zoom range and relatively large DOF.

So what to do? Sell the stuff that's been collecting dust for years and buy a new camera!

I've narrowed it down to the Panasonic GF3 and G3. I would LOVE to get a body with IBIS, but the Olympus bodies don't appeal to me.

I'm not a pixel peeper, so I'm not too concerned about IQ differences between the GF3 and G3. I also don't plan on shooting movies much. The important differences for me are the G3's EVF and tilt/swivel screen.

I have owned a camera with a tilt screen, so I know that I would use it. However it's not a deciding factor. But would I miss having an EVF? Is it really that hard to frame a shot with a large lens on a m43 camera without an EVF? Does anyone have the 14-140 or a similar sized lens and use the main screen to compose shots?

Click to expand...

I have the 14-140mm lens and use it for both stills and video on the GH2 body. For both stills and video I use the EVF unless the camera is on a tripod when I then use the LCD display.

nullspace said:

Obviously the best camera is the camera I have with me, which is the whole reason I'm getting m43. If it's too big or awkward to carry, it's no better than the Sony. Still, this will be our only camera going forward, and I don't want to buy something that's limiting - then it's no better than the Canon!

Any advice?

Click to expand...

I am one of those people who seldom throws away good quality equipment, so my advice would be for you to keep the Sony dSLR for those few occasions when size and weight do not matter and the added flexibility of the SLR design comes into its own.

RickPick said:

The 14-140 is (I think) the heaviest and certainly one of the largest lenses made specifically for m43. I use it a lot on my GH2. I almost always use the EVF but it is certainly quite possible to frame and shoot using the LCD screen. In bright light outdoors though it is not so easy.

Click to expand...

Shooting in bright light does seem to be the big advantage for EVF, although I never have problems in the sunlight when using the Canon.

RickPick said:

It will seem very big indeed on the GF3 I would think. I have shot the 45-200 on an E-P1 however by cradling the lens with my left hand - about the only possible method on such a small camera.

Click to expand...

Was it comfortable shooting like that?

RickPick said:

Can I suggest - of the two I think the G3 would be preferable for you. It is small and light yet has a good EVF and reasonable grip, better physical controls and the same touchscreen. Hence it will be more flexible in use bearing in mind that the main limiting factor in terms of size is not the camera but the lens. When you need real portability you can use a small & light lens (e.g. the 20mm pancake), yet the camera will also work well with the larger/heavier lenses in the range.

For a kit with a similar coverage range, the m43 gear will be much smaller and much lighter than your Sony.

Click to expand...

I am leaning that way. I am probably overestimating the size difference between the G3 and the GF3, thinking the G3 will feel big like the Sony. The Sony is a monster next to either one though!

RickPick said:

Regarding your fears of being limited by the camera you choose, I think it is unlikely - have a look at the work of some of the fine photographers on this forum, Bob Tullis, Sam Bennett or Ray Sachs for instance - and see what you think. They all shoot, or have shot, m43. It may depend also on the type of shooting you intend to do. If you can, try out both G3 and GF3, as well as others, before you decide.

Click to expand...

I have no concerns that the camera won't be capable! I was thinking more along the lines of usability. If my wife can't get sharp photos at the long end of the zoom range (presumably because holding the GF3 at arm's length is too awkward) that would be the "limiting" factor. Overall I'm quite happy with the results I've seen from m43 cameras though.

BigBarney said:

I have the 14-140mm lens and use it for both stills and video on the GH2 body. For both stills and video I use the EVF unless the camera is on a tripod when I then use the LCD display.

Click to expand...

Coming from a large dSLR, I can see how an EVF would feel more natural.

BigBarney said:

I am one of those people who seldom throws away good quality equipment, so my advice would be for you to keep the Sony dSLR for those few occasions when size and weight do not matter and the added flexibility of the SLR design comes into its own.

Click to expand...

I wish I could justify keeping the Sony, but we've used it once in the past year. Plus they still fetch good money on eBay - enough to pay for the new camera.

I love the results from the Sony, but I'm hoping the m43 will be close enough that I won't miss it.

You cannot wait for the A65/A77 to come out or pick a A35/A55? A77 promises to have better EVF and tilt screen than any camera ever released. The 24mp sensor is also going to be the standard for next gen ASP-C pro cameras.

nullspace said:

I currently have a Sony a700 with several lenses (18-250, 10-20, and 50 1.4) as well as a Canon SD700. Neither get used! The Sony is simply too big and heavy to lug around, especially now that we have a toddler to deal with. The Canon is too limiting, particularly the narrow zoom range and relatively large DOF.

So what to do? Sell the stuff that's been collecting dust for years and buy a new camera!

I've narrowed it down to the Panasonic GF3 and G3. I would LOVE to get a body with IBIS, but the Olympus bodies don't appeal to me.

I'm not a pixel peeper, so I'm not too concerned about IQ differences between the GF3 and G3. I also don't plan on shooting movies much. The important differences for me are the G3's EVF and tilt/swivel screen.

I have owned a camera with a tilt screen, so I know that I would use it. However it's not a deciding factor. But would I miss having an EVF? Is it really that hard to frame a shot with a large lens on a m43 camera without an EVF? Does anyone have the 14-140 or a similar sized lens and use the main screen to compose shots?

Obviously the best camera is the camera I have with me, which is the whole reason I'm getting m43. If it's too big or awkward to carry, it's no better than the Sony. Still, this will be our only camera going forward, and I don't want to buy something that's limiting - then it's no better than the Canon!

Any advice?

Click to expand...

nullspace said:

...But would I miss having an EVF? Is it really that hard to frame a shot with a large lens on a m43 camera without an EVF?

Click to expand...

The EVF is unnecessary to frame and compose, but it has two main advantages over just the LCD ;

1. Holding the camera against your face helps to stabilise and improve fine control ... aiming, if you like. This is doubly so for long lenses.

2. EVF allows precise manual focus, essential (in my view) to enjoying focusing old manual lenses.

If you plan on primarily using autofocus lenses of the short-to-mid range you may find an LCD-only camera is alright. (I do not)

I guess the one comment I have is that you should understand that DOF may be an issue of concern for you. When you say the Canon has a large DOF, realize that with the MFT 2.0x crop factor, your DOF on a MFT will likely be even deeper (larger) than the Canon. Something to consider if you want lots of shallow DOF shots...you can do it, but not as easily as the Canon or Sony APS-C sized sensors....

nullspace said:

...The Canon is too limiting, particularly the narrow zoom range and relatively large DOF.

Any advice?

Click to expand...

Peiasdf said:

You cannot wait for the A65/A77 to come out or pick a A35/A55? A77 promises to have better EVF and tilt screen than any camera ever released. The 24mp sensor is also going to be the standard for next gen ASP-C pro cameras.

Click to expand...

The SLT's are definitely smaller than the A700, but they are still too big to fit in my wife's purse.

In addition to the two EVF advantages you site, I believe there's one that's more important. The best of the LCD screens are worthless in direct, bright sun light. Without an EVF you are guessing about framing and depending on the cameras focusing sound. Not a good way to go.

Ulfric M Douglas said:

nullspace said:

...But would I miss having an EVF? Is it really that hard to frame a shot with a large lens on a m43 camera without an EVF?

Click to expand...

The EVF is unnecessary to frame and compose, but it has two main advantages over just the LCD ;

1. Holding the camera against your face helps to stabilise and improve fine control ... aiming, if you like. This is doubly so for long lenses.

2. EVF allows precise manual focus, essential (in my view) to enjoying focusing old manual lenses.

If you plan on primarily using autofocus lenses of the short-to-mid range you may find an LCD-only camera is alright. (I do not)

Click to expand...

--
Kirk

nullspace said:

Obviously the best camera is the camera I have with me, which is the whole reason I'm getting m43. If it's too big or awkward to carry, it's no better than the Sony.

Click to expand...

Sounds like this is really what it comes down to, and that would point to the GF3 or GF2. I primarily use the 14mm f/2.5 and 20mm f/1.7, so I find the GF2 is perfect for me. In the instances where I do use my 45-200mm I frame using the LCD, and while it's not ideal I seem to manage okay. Having an EVF when I'm trying to shoot more actiony stuff on the long end would certainly be helpful, but it's not something I pine for. If that's a real consideration for you, I would think about getting a GF2 instead since if you do find yourself missing an eye-level VF, you can always get the VF accessory.

--
Sam Bennett
http://www.swiftbennett.com
http://www.flickr.com/sambennett/

Chas2 said:

I guess the one comment I have is that you should understand that DOF may be an issue of concern for you. When you say the Canon has a large DOF, realize that with the MFT 2.0x crop factor, your DOF on a MFT will likely be even deeper (larger) than the Canon. Something to consider if you want lots of shallow DOF shots...you can do it, but not as easily as the Canon or Sony APS-C sized sensors....

Click to expand...

My Canon is a compact, not a dSLR. The DOF for the m43 will be deeper than the Sony, but it will still be miles ahead of the Canon!

gulffish said:

In addition to the two EVF advantages you site, I believe there's one that's more important. The best of the LCD screens are worthless in direct, bright sun light. Without an EVF you are guessing about framing and depending on the cameras focusing sound. Not a good way to go.

Click to expand...

I really can't agree with this - not all LCD's are created equal. I found my GF1 to be problematic due to its polarizing conflicting with the polarization of my sunglasses - at some angles the screen would literally go black. The GF2 is better in this regard, since it appears to not be polarized, so no blackouts. In direct, bright sun light it holds up pretty well. I wouldn't try to do any precise manual focusing with it, but for framing shots its fine.

Quite a lot of my shooting is outdoors, and the bottom line is that I really don't find the LCD to be problematic enough to warrant getting a camera with a built-in EVF or the accessory.

--
Sam Bennett
http://www.swiftbennett.com
http://www.flickr.com/sambennett/

Sam Bennett said:

Sounds like this is really what it comes down to, and that would point to the GF3 or GF2. I primarily use the 14mm f/2.5 and 20mm f/1.7, so I find the GF2 is perfect for me. In the instances where I do use my 45-200mm I frame using the LCD, and while it's not ideal I seem to manage okay. Having an EVF when I'm trying to shoot more actiony stuff on the long end would certainly be helpful, but it's not something I pine for. If that's a real consideration for you, I would think about getting a GF2 instead since if you do find yourself missing an eye-level VF, you can always get the VF accessory.

Click to expand...

A good option, but I think we'd break and/or lose the VF accessory!

Sam Bennett said:

gulffish said:

In addition to the two EVF advantages you site, I believe there's one that's more important. The best of the LCD screens are worthless in direct, bright sun light. Without an EVF you are guessing about framing and depending on the cameras focusing sound. Not a good way to go.

Click to expand...

I really can't agree with this - not all LCD's are created equal. I found my GF1 to be problematic due to its polarizing conflicting with the polarization of my sunglasses - at some angles the screen would literally go black. The GF2 is better in this regard, since it appears to not be polarized, so no blackouts. In direct, bright sun light it holds up pretty well. I wouldn't try to do any precise manual focusing with it, but for framing shots its fine.

Click to expand...

I can't comment on any of the Panasonic screens since I haven't used them, but I never have a problem in direct sunlight with other compacts (e.g. my Canon). It's not perfect, but it seems to work fine.

I am much more concerned about shooting with a long lens though. It seems like it would be very difficult to hold the camera steady at arm's length if you're zoomed to a 300mm equivalent.

Sam Bennett said:

Having an EVF when I'm trying to shoot more actiony stuff on the long end would certainly be helpful, but it's not something I pine for.

Click to expand...

That's what I was wondering. I know there will be times where an EVF would be better, but am I really going to miss shots without it?

It also helps that the GF3 comes with the pancake lens, which makes it cheaper than buying a G3 body and pancake separately.

nullspace said:

Sam Bennett said:

Having an EVF when I'm trying to shoot more actiony stuff on the long end would certainly be helpful, but it's not something I pine for.

Click to expand...

That's what I was wondering. I know there will be times where an EVF would be better, but am I really going to miss shots without it?

Click to expand...

That's hard to say. Depends on what you're shooting, how good your technique is, etc. To be honest, shooting actiony stuff with MFT just isn't that great to begin with, so the lack of EVF is sort of the least of its problems.

nullspace said:

It also helps that the GF3 comes with the pancake lens, which makes it cheaper than buying a G3 body and pancake separately.

Click to expand...

Good point!

--
Sam Bennett
http://www.swiftbennett.com
http://www.flickr.com/sambennett/

All right, after changing our minds a million times we finally decided on the G3. In the end the extra functionality seemed worth the small size penalty.

I ordered via Panasonic EPP through my work, so I have no idea when it will arrive. The price is unbeatable though!

Now to decide what lenses! I got the 14-42 kit lens, since it only cost a bit more than body-only. I'm also keen on the 20mm 1.7 (for food porn shots). My wife wants a long zoom, and I'm thinking maybe the 45-200?

Have you thought about some of the oly lenses? they are really decent in terms of combining IQ & portability:
oly 14-150 great all-around tiny package
oly 40-150 cheap & underrated!
oly 9-18 one of the most highly-praised lens on this forum!

horray for dual lens system!
--
http://www.wix.com/drkevinlyu/photography

kev777zero said:

Have you thought about some of the oly lenses?

Click to expand...

Good point! I need to look more closely at those. For a longer zoom I think I'll stick with the Panasonic so I can get IS, but for the others Oly is probably a good option!