7D: A Story of Love and Hate

Florian Wardell

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Hello, beautiful people.

The Canon 7D was the first dSLR I ever owned. I learned how to shoot on my mom's Leica M6 and M5, but my need for digital files has led to the 7D, and I've had some trouble with it.

First, I was very disappointed with excessively soft images. My only lens is the 18-135 IS, a great all-rounder (but certainly no Zeiss prime), which at first made me think I had to buy a more expensive piece of glass. I didn't mind, because I was planning on investing in some nice lenses anyways, but I did send the camera to Canon, just to make sure.
It paid off, they changed out my autofocus system, and it is razor sharp now.

After a few weeks and hundreds of shots, something else began to bother me: banding.

Visible on uniform backgrounds between 200 and 800 ISO, it was always there, ruining beautiful shots and making PP more complicated that it should be.

At first I thought it was my PP skills that needed to be tuned, but no: my cheap Lumix point-and-shoot (which could handle raw!) was simply cleaner, if a bit noisier.

So I put the 7D aside and focused on my exams. Two weeks ago, I remember to send it to Canon, but my warranty was expired - by 4 days. Thankfully Canon was cool about it and accepted to change the CMOS assembly for free anyways.

I just got it back today, and I think the banding is gone. I can still manage to find some by darkening overblown highlights, but I think realistic scenarios should now be banding free.

So, what have I learned?

First, there's no reason not to send the camera back to Canon. Their warranty service is excellent, the technician called me to make sure he understood the issue. I don't know if the service is similar in the US, but the French Canon people were amazing.

Also, regardless of what the 7D mafia may say on DPReview forums, banding is an issue, and the autofocus can be faulty.

If you think about it, my 7D's two most important systems were faulty: the autofocus (one of the selling points) and the sensor. Canon surely needs to fine tune their QA techniques, such faults aren't really acceptable on a $1000+ camera.

Finally, here are some shots I wanted to share with you. All pre-banding repair, with 7D.

















































































































C&C welcome. Thanks for reading!
 
Beautiful images. The processing certainly gives them a "film" look.

As for the banding, I suspect you would need to pay closer to Leica prices to get a completely fault free camera for every customer. The autofocus issues are also complex, especially if you are shooting with non Canon lenses.
 
Beautiful images. The processing certainly gives them a "film" look.

As for the banding, I suspect you would need to pay closer to Leica prices to get a completely fault free camera for every customer. The autofocus issues are also complex, especially if you are shooting with non Canon lenses.
You're right, but on the other hand, these issues are far from rare. This forum is proof.
A friend of mine also uses a 7D and his autofocus was rubbish too, at first.
Anyway, thanks for the kind words!
 
Hello, beautiful people.

The Canon 7D was the first dSLR I ever owned. I learned how to shoot on my mom's Leica M6 and M5, but my need for digital files has led to the 7D, and I've had some trouble with it.

First, I was very disappointed with excessively soft images. My only lens is the 18-135 IS, a great all-rounder (but certainly no Zeiss prime), which at first made me think I had to buy a more expensive piece of glass. I didn't mind, because I was planning on investing in some nice lenses anyways, but I did send the camera to Canon, just to make sure.
It paid off, they changed out my autofocus system, and it is razor sharp now.

After a few weeks and hundreds of shots, something else began to bother me: banding.

Visible on uniform backgrounds between 200 and 800 ISO, it was always there, ruining beautiful shots and making PP more complicated that it should be.

At first I thought it was my PP skills that needed to be tuned, but no: my cheap Lumix point-and-shoot (which could handle raw!) was simply cleaner, if a bit noisier.

So I put the 7D aside and focused on my exams. Two weeks ago, I remember to send it to Canon, but my warranty was expired - by 4 days. Thankfully Canon was cool about it and accepted to change the CMOS assembly for free anyways.

I just got it back today, and I think the banding is gone. I can still manage to find some by darkening overblown highlights, but I think realistic scenarios should now be banding free.

So, what have I learned?

First, there's no reason not to send the camera back to Canon. Their warranty service is excellent, the technician called me to make sure he understood the issue. I don't know if the service is similar in the US, but the French Canon people were amazing.

Also, regardless of what the 7D mafia may say on DPReview forums, banding is an issue, and the autofocus can be faulty.

If you think about it, my 7D's two most important systems were faulty: the autofocus (one of the selling points) and the sensor. Canon surely needs to fine tune their QA techniques, such faults aren't really acceptable on a $1000+ camera.

Finally, here are some shots I wanted to share with you. All pre-banding repair, with 7D.

C&C welcome. Thanks for reading!
Cool shots...yes the old AF problem on Canon cameras, seems Canon can't get it right...how many af complaints have we heard...I say too many. My 7D is a bit of dog sometimes at AF. I have some canon gear that will stay with me, but IF I get a chance...I'll be crossing to the other side. (yes because of AF performance)
--
Nature and Landscape Photographer
http://www.pbase.com/jdf
http://www.flickr.com/jdfeos
 
Hello, beautiful people.

Also, regardless of what the 7D mafia may say on DPReview forums, banding is an issue, and the autofocus can be faulty.

Thanks for reading!
Now that was funny.
 
Nice set of photos,

While I have personally never noticed any banding. Noise & softness were a problem with my 7D. After making sure I knew how everything worked, I did not complain here, i sent it in to New Jersey. It came back with the auto focus system working much better, no more softness. I am still not totally pleased with the noise at ISO 400 & 800. At 1600 and above it is what I would expect. However Lightroom3 or Topaz does a nice job on the noise so it has become a non issue. The fine detail that I was looking for in bird & macro images is there now.

It is now a nice camera , I love the auto focus system and speed
--
Warren
 
Also, regardless of what the 7D mafia may say on DPReview forums, banding is an issue, [...]
... when it is. :) The heated discussions here were never about defective sensors; they were about non-defective, ones, like the one that you own now. And you seem to agree with "the mafia" that banding is not a problem (with your new sensor).
 
Here we go again.... What are you saying Peter 13, that there isn't a problem when there is no problem? In reality, this story represents how widespread the problem is of two major defects that are prevalent in the Canon 7D. A defective AF and poor performing sensors which likely Canon knowingly installed in this product. Don't they have tests during the manufacture of the sensor which verify the absolute performance of the sensor and can separate those with poor performance from those with exceptional noise performance? There are simply too many reports of low ISO noise and banding on this forum. To suggest the debate of banding was on non-defective sensors is absurd. Banding is not an absolute amount but rather varying degrees. It varies from barely perceptible right up to easily discernible. It also could be detected at low ISO values. It varies by each copy of the sensor.

Forian, your images provide ample proof of your artistic photographic abilities. You were fortunate enough to 'know' that there was a problem with your camera body and not the way you were using it. You were hesitant and took more than the one year warranty to have it corrected but it seems to have paid off well for you with a properly functioning camera. What your story does again illustrate, is that not everyone knows when they have a faulty or poorly functioning camera. If they dared bring their suspicions to this forum, they were roughly treated with much brow-beating and ridicule. I suspect that there are many 7D owners who are oblivious to the defects in their camera, because they do not not know any difference as to what should be expected. They have either shelved their 7D DSLR and use a point-n-shoot, or they continue to use their 7D with its poorly performing AF unit and noisy banding sensor. What seems lost in your jubilation that finally your camera works acceptably well, is that you had your camera twice into the good folks at Canon Service Repair. They fixed/aligned the AF unit the first time but obviously have no ability to verify the complete functionality of the camera but rather seem to only respond to the user complaints. They had to be told by you that there was a problem with the sensor. While the camera was at Canon Repair the first time, one would expect that they would verify the operation of the camera and specifically have some method to confirm that the sensor is functioning cleanly. Sadly not everyone is knowledgeable enough to confidently identify the banding noise to Canon Service Repair. Likely Canon Service Repair specifically avoids putting the camera through any kind of exhaustive inspection check as they are not in the business of fixing all defects but only those that have been identified by the customer or accidentally by the service technician.
Also, regardless of what the 7D mafia may say on DPReview forums, banding is an issue, [...]
... when it is. :) The heated discussions here were never about defective sensors; they were about non-defective, ones, like the one that you own now. And you seem to agree with "the mafia" that banding is not a problem (with your new sensor).
 
It is true that the noise can be 'fixed' with PP using Lightroom3 or Topaz, however such processing does subtly alter the the quality of the image. Some detail is indeed lost.
Nice set of photos,

While I have personally never noticed any banding. Noise & softness were a problem with my 7D. After making sure I knew how everything worked, I did not complain here, i sent it in to New Jersey. It came back with the auto focus system working much better, no more softness. I am still not totally pleased with the noise at ISO 400 & 800. At 1600 and above it is what I would expect. However Lightroom3 or Topaz does a nice job on the noise so it has become a non issue. The fine detail that I was looking for in bird & macro images is there now.

It is now a nice camera , I love the auto focus system and speed
You too are fortunate to have your camera competently repaired. It is a great camera when it is functioning properly.
 
Here we go again.... What are you saying Peter 13, that there isn't a problem when there is no problem?
None of the above.
In reality, this story represents how widespread the problem is of two major defects that are prevalent in the Canon 7D. A defective AF and poor performing sensors which likely Canon knowingly installed in this product. Don't they have tests during the manufacture of the sensor which verify the absolute performance of the sensor and can separate those with poor performance from those with exceptional noise performance? There are simply too many reports of low ISO noise and banding on this forum. To suggest the debate of banding was on non-defective sensors is absurd.
If there are too many sensors with banding problems (all of them, actually), this is banding by design not a defect. This is what I meant. The OP had a sensor with more than "normal" banding, that I consider defective.
 
In reality, this story represents how widespread the problem is of two major defects that are prevalent in the Canon 7D. A defective AF and poor performing sensors which likely Canon knowingly installed in this product. Don't they have tests during the manufacture of the sensor which verify the absolute performance of the sensor and can separate those with poor performance from those with exceptional noise performance? There are simply too many reports of low ISO noise and banding on this forum. To suggest the debate of banding was on non-defective sensors is absurd.
If there are too many sensors with banding problems (all of them, actually), this is banding by design not a defect. This is what I meant. The OP had a sensor with more than "normal" banding, that I consider defective.
The amount of banding for any copy of the camera is subjective. It is only a problem when it becomes noticeable in the image and detracts from it. Some exposures which require "pushing" the range to enhance darker regions will be noticeable on some sensors you deem within the banding by design intent, whereas other copies of the same sensor will be less. Essentially as stated before, no two sensors have identically the same amount of banding. Unknown to me is a threshold that clearly separates those sensors that are beyond an acceptable measure of banding. If Canon had such a measure, it would be a secret since admission of a measure for a design intent defect would create a premium version over a basic version. Humm, I wonder if the studio version of the 7D is built from premium selected components?
 
In reality, this story represents how widespread the problem is of two major defects that are prevalent in the Canon 7D. A defective AF and poor performing sensors which likely Canon knowingly installed in this product. Don't they have tests during the manufacture of the sensor which verify the absolute performance of the sensor and can separate those with poor performance from those with exceptional noise performance? There are simply too many reports of low ISO noise and banding on this forum. To suggest the debate of banding was on non-defective sensors is absurd.
If there are too many sensors with banding problems (all of them, actually), this is banding by design not a defect. This is what I meant. The OP had a sensor with more than "normal" banding, that I consider defective.
The amount of banding for any copy of the camera is subjective. It is only a problem when it becomes noticeable in the image and detracts from it. Some exposures which require "pushing" the range to enhance darker regions will be noticeable on some sensors you deem within the banding by design intent, whereas other copies of the same sensor will be less. Essentially as stated before, no two sensors have identically the same amount of banding. Unknown to me is a threshold that clearly separates those sensors that are beyond an acceptable measure of banding. If Canon had such a measure, it would be a secret since admission of a measure for a design intent defect would create a premium version over a basic version. Humm, I wonder if the studio version of the 7D is built from premium selected components?
You people have time... Anyway the banding issue (when such thing is manifested at all) is far worse in my 5D II. Other than that I am really not sure that you really have a clue...
 
Unknown to me is a threshold that clearly separates those sensors that are beyond an acceptable measure of banding.
It is pretty simple, really. Here is an example, 7D vs. Nikon, strong shadow lift:





(taken from here: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1034&thread=38591655&page=4 )

One of them has banding, the other one does not. Period. The 50D has horizontal banding. Not an opinion, a fact. The 5D2 suffers from banding as well.

Now, how important this is, how often you have to do such processing is another conversation. I do not really want to get involved in this. If you read my post above, you will see that I did not want to take a side.
 
It is true that the noise can be 'fixed' with PP using Lightroom3 or Topaz, however such processing does subtly alter the the quality of the image. Some detail is indeed lost.
Indeed it is, No argument there. However, I do find that with proper exposure or better yet +1/3EV all that is required is a modest amount on the LR3 slider, say 20-30 for the most part. For the prints & web posts I make, it is more than adequate.
You too are fortunate to have your camera competently repaired. It is a great camera when it is functioning properly.
That it is, I am very pleased with it. Why, I almost like it as much as my 5DII which I am very fond of.

--
Warren
 
Finally, here are some shots I wanted to share with you. All pre-banding repair, with 7D.
I have looked closely at the images that you posted and I am unable to see the banding. Could you point it out to me please?
--
Yogi

When you get down to the nuts and bolts of photography, the results depend on the 'nut' behind the camera!

See the 'Plan' in my 'Profile' for my current equipment.
 
n/t
Finally, here are some shots I wanted to share with you. All pre-banding repair, with 7D.
I have looked closely at the images that you posted and I am unable to see the banding. Could you point it out to me please?
--
Yogi

When you get down to the nuts and bolts of photography, the results depend on the 'nut' behind the camera!

See the 'Plan' in my 'Profile' for my current equipment.
 
Good point. I do use some selective clarity / sharpness brushes on banding zones, along with a mix of NR and other stuff, so it isn't necessarily visible in the finished versions.

Here are crops from some of the shots above without de-banding PP.













Anyway, thanks for the kind words, everyone!
Finally, here are some shots I wanted to share with you. All pre-banding repair, with 7D.
I have looked closely at the images that you posted and I am unable to see the banding. Could you point it out to me please?
--
Yogi

When you get down to the nuts and bolts of photography, the results depend on the 'nut' behind the camera!

See the 'Plan' in my 'Profile' for my current equipment.
 

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