Vibration Reduction (VR) is THE BEST!

VR is no substitute for a good tripod.
Actually, more often than not it actually is....."excuse me, could you hold that pose while I run back to my house and get a good tripod?" :)
Hey!!...I'm still waiting for you to get the tripod...I'm not a robot you know !.

Kidding aside. I get your point . My bad for making a point without reading the whole posting. In those circumstances optical stabilization is a very valuble tool. What I meant is a photo taken ...well, you know what I meant.
 
Indeed. This is correct.
The replies in this thread are confusing. So many seem to be comparing the VR shots to what they would have been with a tripod. I understood the comparison to be between shots taken with a lens with VR vs one without. Assuming I'm interpreting the OPs post correctly I think the tripod comments and discussion are irrelevant. I haven't read all of the replies but I suspect even the OP would agree that a tripod would have produced better results.

And whether the OPs examples are noisy, not sharp enough, not interesting, etc doesn't really matter as they do show improvements over what the results would have been without VR (and without a tripod...). With a little imagination you should be able to determine what VR could do for you..... don't like the noise at ISO6400 then don't use ISO6400.... don't think 1/6 with VR is fast enough then don't shoot at 1/6. VR is a tool just like the other hundreds of tools we use, you decide when it works for you. Shoot 100% on a tripod and we can all agree you will never need VR :)
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/shigzeo/
Advice/criticism/appreciation appreciated!
 
You don't need a tripod for fireworks. They are very bright.

Those shots you posted are very nice. I'm suprised that you are so accepting of the original ones you posted.
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http://www.andrewsandersphotography.co.uk
 
The replies in this thread are confusing. So many seem to be comparing the VR shots to what they would have been with a tripod. I understood the comparison to be between shots taken with a lens with VR vs one without. Assuming I'm interpreting the OPs post correctly I think the tripod comments and discussion are irrelevant. I haven't read all of the replies but I suspect even the OP would agree that a tripod would have produced better results.
Please read what you just wrote then read the OP's subject line.

In any case, do you think they are good shots? Regardless of whether or not they would be worse without VR, are they keepers? If they are for you that's fine, but they are not for me. The OP has posted some more shots that show what he is capable of; this makes me even more suprised that he is so impressed by the shots in question.

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http://www.andrewsandersphotography.co.uk
 
In any case, do you think they are good shots?
Much better than had he not had a VR lens.
Regardless of whether or not they would be worse without VR, are they keepers?
Never his point
If they are for you that's fine, but they are not for me.
Again, not really relevant here
The OP has posted some more shots that show what he is capable of; this makes me even more suprised that he is so impressed by the shots in question.
Not the shots per say, but what VR is able to accomplish vs had it not been available. Perhaps if he had shown the same shot with VR "off" also, you might see what many here see as his observation.
 
In any case, do you think they are good shots?
Much better than had he not had a VR lens.
Regardless of whether or not they would be worse without VR, are they keepers?
Never his point
If they are for you that's fine, but they are not for me.
Again, not really relevant here
The OP has posted some more shots that show what he is capable of; this makes me even more suprised that he is so impressed by the shots in question.
Not the shots per say, but what VR is able to accomplish vs had it not been available. Perhaps if he had shown the same shot with VR "off" also, you might see what many here see as his observation.
It is relevant though. It would be like me posting photos taken of me holding a camera and spinning on the spot at 1/30 shutter speed.

Then doing the same thing and taking the shot at 1/4000.

Surprize one shot is blurred one isn't. They are still rubbish shots though.

We know VR gives you a few extra stops, but it's a situation that comes around alot; just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
 
We know VR gives you a few extra stops, but it's a situation that comes around alot; just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
I would think, as the OP pointed out, it doesn't mean you shouldn't... be afraid to use it.
 
In any case, do you think they are good shots?
Much better than had he not had a VR lens.
But are they good enough? I don't think they are. I ike to have VR but it has not saved these shots.
Regardless of whether or not they would be worse without VR, are they keepers?
Never his point
His point is that VR has helped him get decent shots in poor light. I disagree.
If they are for you that's fine, but they are not for me.
Again, not really relevant here
It is not relevent whether the shots are good enough to keep??
The OP has posted some more shots that show what he is capable of; this makes me even more suprised that he is so impressed by the shots in question.
Not the shots per say, but what VR is able to accomplish vs had it not been available. Perhaps if he had shown the same shot with VR "off" also, you might see what many here see as his observation.
Has VR enabled him to accomplish shots that he should be happy with? Personally I don't think it has in this case. The fact that they would be worse without VR is not relevent. By the time they hit my trash bin I don't care if they are poor or very very poor.
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http://www.andrewsandersphotography.co.uk
 
In any case, do you think they are good shots?
Much better than had he not had a VR lens.
But are they good enough? I don't think they are. I ike to have VR but it has not saved these shots.
Looking at the rest of his work....that was never his intent he since he is obviously more than capable.
Regardless of whether or not they would be worse without VR, are they keepers?
Never his point
His point is that VR has helped him get decent shots in poor light. I disagree.
No, his point was that VR is amazing.
If they are for you that's fine, but they are not for me.
Again, not really relevant here
It is not relevent whether the shots are good enough to keep??
No, not in a simple example. "keep" is in the eye of the keeper
The OP has posted some more shots that show what he is capable of; this makes me even more suprised that he is so impressed by the shots in question.
Not the shots per say, but what VR is able to accomplish vs had it not been available. Perhaps if he had shown the same shot with VR "off" also, you might see what many here see as his observation.
Has VR enabled him to accomplish shots that he should be happy with? Personally I don't think it has in this case. The fact that they would be worse without VR is not relevent. By the time they hit my trash bin I don't care if they are poor or very very poor.
You simply misunderstand the point of the post.....very common here, but irrelevant to the point he well made. See, these are not keepers but make the same point







 
In any case, do you think they are good shots?
Much better than had he not had a VR lens.
But are they good enough? I don't think they are. I ike to have VR but it has not saved these shots.
Looking at the rest of his work....that was never his intent he since he is obviously more than capable.
Regardless of whether or not they would be worse without VR, are they keepers?
Never his point
His point is that VR has helped him get decent shots in poor light. I disagree.
No, his point was that VR is amazing.
If they are for you that's fine, but they are not for me.
Again, not really relevant here
It is not relevent whether the shots are good enough to keep??
No, not in a simple example. "keep" is in the eye of the keeper
The OP has posted some more shots that show what he is capable of; this makes me even more suprised that he is so impressed by the shots in question.
Not the shots per say, but what VR is able to accomplish vs had it not been available. Perhaps if he had shown the same shot with VR "off" also, you might see what many here see as his observation.
Has VR enabled him to accomplish shots that he should be happy with? Personally I don't think it has in this case. The fact that they would be worse without VR is not relevent. By the time they hit my trash bin I don't care if they are poor or very very poor.
You simply misunderstand the point of the post.....very common here, but irrelevant to the point he well made. See, these are not keepers but make the same point







Okay, well lets look at it another way. Nikon already proved VR works when they designed it. We don't need picture after picture of it used poorly when frankly better solutions are available (tripod) or worse to shoot a test chart.
 
Thanks to all the people that understood what I was trying to convey. To the people that think I should be embarrassed for even thinking those first shots were acceptable or even worth keeping, well, truthfully, I'm glad I have a record of them. I'm also glad I have a record of what my capabilities and shutter speeds are with that particular lens.

Should I have posted those pictures even though Nikon has already told us what VR can do? I think so because they're real world and not staged. Are they the best pictures ever? No and I would never say they were.

I noticed a couple of you said that "we" or "we all" knew what VR could do. My response is "really?" WE ALL knew? Hate to burst your bubble, but no, everyone does not know and a lot of times new people or ones that aren't experienced with using something would like to see some real world results. I know when I'm researching new things I'm unfamilar with I'm always grateful to the people that are willing to post things to help new people.

As one person stated, bless his heart, he said that I never said I was the definitive photographer where my photos are the defacto standard that all others must emulate and he's right. I never did say that and I won't say it right now. I see other people's work that I'm very envious of or really enjoy seeing. Mine might not be in their category, but I'm happy to see that some of you want to see me in that light. ;-)

So that said, I may not be frequenting this thread much longer as what I said is said and truthfully it's very stressing knowing that people think we should be entertaining them since they're "bored" of what they see. I think I showed that VR can be used at a slow shutter speed.

See you in other messages.

Nathan
 
I was hoping Nathan or another person could show a couple of pictures using VR to show how a picture they took was made possible by VR. And I mean a picture that looks half good and not a test shot.

I even used over 2 hours searching for some test shots where I thought I could HELP to prove that point. In the mean time Nathan didn't use two seconds to post a half good shot. BECAUSE HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY. The ONLY shot here that might be classified as "helped by having VR" was the inside of a pyramid where tripods were banned.

Thanks for nothing Nathan. Your pics without VR look good. Your ones with are a pure shame, a disgrace to your Flicker feed.

Thanks for the waste of time.

Guy Moscoso
 
Glad I could help entertain you, Guy. I kept my mouth shut because I was taking the high road, but since you want to be insulting, I think you're a real a-hole to even insinuate that I stole the pictures I posted. Also, you're one of the people that must feel "priviledge" thinking the world is out there to serve YOU. Just because you say "show me a picture" you expect people to oblige. Tell you what, jerk, this is a forum with people that do whatever they please. We're not here at your beck and call.
I was hoping Nathan or another person could show a couple of pictures using VR to show how a picture they took was made possible by VR. And I mean a picture that looks half good and not a test shot.

I even used over 2 hours searching for some test shots where I thought I could HELP to prove that point. In the mean time Nathan didn't use two seconds to post a half good shot. BECAUSE HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY. The ONLY shot here that might be classified as "helped by having VR" was the inside of a pyramid where tripods were banned.

Thanks for nothing Nathan. Your pics without VR look good. Your ones with are a pure shame, a disgrace to your Flicker feed.

Thanks for the waste of time.

Guy Moscoso
 
Haha wow, the level of elitism in this thread is overwhelming.

IMO who gives a rats ass about the grain of the original pictures, the poor composition, or poor subject matter. As the OP stated a billion times, the intent of this topic is to show what shutter speeds can be obtained handheld, telephoto, using VR.

Here is how the banter breaks down:

"VR doesn't help sharpness due to moving subjects." What if you don't have a tripod and want to take a picture of something that is still and fixed to the ground?

"He should have used a tripod." Do you always carry a tripod everywhere you bring your camera? Do you bring it on your commute to work every day?

"DSLR shouldn't be used for photos where P&S style snapshots." Well obviously these photos would not have been possible with a P&S camera.

If you want real world "keeper" examples, search for the 24-120VR review used by the photog hired by Nikon to shoot promo photos using that very lens. I can't for the life of me remember the person's name, but he was using VR on a helicopter and managed to take some pretty amazing birdseye photos.

"Pics or it didn't happen." Go back to shooting your "keeper" photos that are being posted to only a flickr stream.
 
Next time post a picture that is a quarter as good as your old stuff. For a guy who used to trek up hills with Hasselblads and dedication you've fallen a long way. You are the proof that VR ruins talent. Perfect textbook example

I am TOTALLY willing to be proven wrong on this point and eat crow. Neither you, nor any other (well, minus the pyramid shot) have shown the value of VR. (I truly believe in it's value despite your inability to show it) It would have been understandable for a pure amateur but a shame for a guy with good shots and lots of years under his belt.

How could anyone not suspect you stole the other shots? Either that or you've turned into a blind old man. (Being blind and old aren't bad- you just should have stopped photography before you fell into your VR hole).

No half complements will keep you away from boring your friends and family with snapshots now that you got your VR lens. Someone has got to tell you to stop this deterioration of your talent. Maybe you might see the light, but I doubt it. I implore you to stick with your quality work from earlier in your career. And leave your VR equipped cam home and enjoy being with your family and friends. There IS value in that. In fact, the more you keep trying to get VR snapshots the more you will be stealing time from the people around you who mean something to you. Your old Photos were worth the effort, but these new ones definitely aren't.

Guy Moscoso
 
Yeah, I agree. I was actually going to try to answer his request (to provide photos showing the benefits of VR), but now I feel he's not worth the trouble.

To the OP: Thanks again for bringing up this post, and please don't let someone like gmosc get in the way of your enjoyment of photography, in all it's forms. Some people (like gmosc) just can't see past their own view of the world, it seems.
Wow.

That was harsh.
 
Here is His link from the first post.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nathantw/

Click on it and see how good his shots USED to be. Do what YOU can do to get Nathan back to his best. I don't need to be convinced about VR I actually have ideas as to where it is useful but Nathan needs help to avoid losing his strong foundation and becoming a snapshooter.

He'll listen to a fellow VR user. Notice how weak his last posts to his flicker are. It's almost like he isn't the same photographer. I'm tempted to think he maybe borrowed the VR shots for some perverse reason. Absolutely not the same man- either due to borrowing or a stroke or senility, you decide. He'll never listen to me.

And if you INSIST upon how great VR is, teach HIM how to get his level anywhere near where he used to be. Something is terribly wrong with that flicker feed. Something smells fishy. It reminds of a guy who stole shots on the panasonic forum a couple of years back and put his name on them.

Guy Moscoso
 
I get the OP. Makes sense to me.

I was going to post a VR example that is one or my personal favorite shots, but I'm not really sure it will help the thread. If there is interest, I might.
Quinn

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Quinn
 
Ok guys,

Here is another shot with a VR in pursuit of some artistic touch..

Although, I am not enjoying receiving notifications of this thread as it is a total time waste but maybe I see it as an opportunity to learn since tempers are all flared up and just to prove one another wrong, i get to hear some constructive critic. It is unbelieable how one can waste time here and not actually go out and shoot.

And before anyone starts to blast their bladder, it was INDEED a deliberate attempt to capture a motion of the birds with respect to the VR to cover up for the long focal lenghts. Have fun..











 

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