Crushed in challenge - C&C requested

Well, I just entered my first dpreview challenge and my little alpha 100 and I got crushed - ranked 142 out of 200! Unfortunately, I didn't get any comments so I'm not having a good "learning experience", as they say. Any comments and criticisms would be appreciated.

The challenge is "road no human" and my entry is at

http://www.dpreview.com/challenges/Entry.aspx?ID=470964&View=Results&Rows=25#comment

Thanks.

Greg Reese

hmm, I'm no expert but I'll give my two cents anyway - see if you think it's worth anything. I think your choice of focus is interesting, placing the field of focus midway between back- and foreground reminds me a bit of fake miniature photography. However, I also think it's more 'traditional' for road pictures to either have a larger DoF, or focus at infinity, to emphasize the distance. Don't get me wrong, I like your approach, but not everyone might.

Greg Reese said:

Well, I just entered my first dpreview challenge and my little alpha 100 and I got crushed - ranked 142 out of 200! Unfortunately, I didn't get any comments so I'm not having a good "learning experience", as they say. Any comments and criticisms would be appreciated.

The challenge is "road no human" and my entry is at

http://www.dpreview.com/challenges/Entry.aspx?ID=470964&View=Results&Rows=25#comment

Thanks.

Greg Reese

Click to expand...

A couple of things -- The category "road no human" is tricky. It could just mean "no people" or it could mean "no trace of humans". The top entries fit the second, while yours fit the first. So the reviewers also chose the second interpretation.

The other thing was the DOF in your shot was too shallow. The entire length of the "road" should have been sharp (usual for landscape type shots). The soft tree leaves are off-putting. When using selective focus (shallow DOF) the key element of the shot is what needs to be in focus. In this case the focus plane was on the back of the car, which didn't really fit the category. Also when using selective focus the OOF areas need to be very OOF.

I hate to criticize other peoples work, since my criticisms reflect what I would have done (but didn't), and there are plenty of people who don't care for what I like.

I don't know your knowledge or experience level, but I would recommend getting a book on composition so you can see how changing certain aspects of a shot can make it better or worse. Then look through a number of the challenges, pick out the ones you like and analyze them to determine why you like them (pick a category where you at least like the overall subject matter. Then review them against the info in the composition book to see how composition guidelines were used (deliberately or not).

Don't get discouraged, and keep trying - its the journey that's important, not the destination (unless you are selling your photos.)

tom

First off - loved the autumn colours...........

From my perspective the focus of the photograph seems to be the first car on the right which also obscures the vanishing point of the road - both of which are smack on one third across from the left and from the bottom of the picture....which attracts the viewers attention.

This would have been a much better photograh for this challenge if there were no cars on the right side of the road and you could see where the road ended. Focus shouldbe either at this point - at the end of the road or well forward to pick out the detail of the leaves and leaving a nice blurred impression of the road coming to an end somewhere in the distance.

Not everyone will agree with this but hope it is helpful anyway......

Incidentally don't lose heart - it takes some time to learn how to match photograhs to challenge titles and sometimes results surprize you.....

Regards.............Gary

I've only finished in the top half of a challenge once!

I chalk it up to an anti-Sony bias on the part of the voters! ;-)

Welcome to the club Greg. You think that's bad, in my last challenge I was 87th out of 100

That challenge seemed to me to be a wide open one - I mean just about anything could have won as long as it was a decent image, had something of interest and was technically OK. To me, very hard to interpret. In fact, the winning entry didn't receive that high of a score as challenges go - only 3. 173. The second place entry has done well in several challenges. Furthermore, there were only about 15 votes per entry - again, not that many. With just one or two more decent votes, you could have jumped 50 places easily. Thus, I wouldn't be discouraged.

As for you entry, I's a nice shot. I think if the trees had been in focus, it might have done better. It fit the theme well, but beyond the nice colors, it really had nothing that jumped out. BTW, I didn't vote in that challenge.

It's unlikely that you'll get comments. It just doesn't happen often unless you have the winning entry. One thing I find instructive is to vote in a challenge and then, when it's finished, compare your rankings with the final results. It'll tell you if you are on the same page as most of the other voters.

Keep trying and be sure your entries fit the themes well. You will eventually do well.
--
AEH
http://aehass.zenfolio.com/
Question: What do you do all week?
Answer: Mon to Fri. Nothing, Sat & Sun I rest!

Greg,

Others already gave you good advice on picture itself. I will just say - don’t even give a second thought about place you took in this or other challenge. Definitely don’t consider it as being “crushed” or any objective measurement of your photographic skills. You can spend some time figuring out what ‘sells’ and get better placement, or you can just move on and enjoy your photography and put what you like and what you think matches particular challenge once in a while without much attention to the outcome, unless you feel your ego needs it.

Greg Reese said:

Well, I just entered my first dpreview challenge and my little alpha 100 and I got crushed - ranked 142 out of 200! Unfortunately, I didn't get any comments so I'm not having a good "learning experience", as they say. Any comments and criticisms would be appreciated.

The challenge is "road no human" and my entry is at

http://www.dpreview.com/challenges/Entry.aspx?ID=470964&View=Results&Rows=25#comment

Thanks.

Greg Reese

Click to expand...

--
Some of my older work: http://www.pbase.com/papasha

Just to add something completely different, since I think you've already gotten good feedback on your shot:

There are other variables at play, and basically if you're going to enter the challenges you need to do so with much removal, no seriousness at all, and all of your sense of humor intact. You can be judged down because they don't know you, because someone else purposefully voted you down to raise their own results, because they didn't like your camera or brand, or even because they didn't understand the rules. Winning most often requires lots of friends, and sometimes a brand that gets much support...or must really be a standout photo that just makes itself impossible not to vote highly for. Your photo can be pretty darn good, but just not standing out enough from other good entries, and you could find yourself in the bottom group.

I've placed from top 10 to bottom 20 on my occasional forays in the challenges...sometimes I can't even say as to why, as some of those voted down further I felt were better than some that ranked more highly.

Just to keep my sense of humor, I even entered one challenge with the expressed goal of seeing if I could place LAST! I don't care about the status of the rank or percentage - taking that too seriously is part of the problem I find with the challenge system...so aiming for rock bottom was a way of disarming the whole process. I failed, by the way - I came in NEAR the bottom, but others still beat me out for last place!

--
Justin
galleries: http://www.pbase.com/zackiedawg

zackiedawg said:

There are other variables at play, and basically if you're going to enter the challenges you need to do so with much removal, no seriousness at all, and all of your sense of humor intact.
Justin
galleries: http://www.pbase.com/zackiedawg

Click to expand...

That's excellent advice. The challenges are great for suggesting subjects and getting you to stretch your skills. But take them with a big grain of salt. The voting can be strange sometimes. Most of the time I finish in the lower middle because I've accumulated enough .5's & 1's that I score higher than better photos that get no votes at all. Yes, the truly outstanding ones do well. After that, it's a craps shoot. Still, the challenges are fun once you get over trying to do well in them.

To me, it looks like there is evidence of humans all over this shot. As a viewer, what I see in your image is cars parked casually on a suburban road, both human objects in a human based setting, in the Fall with trees.

I have not looked through the challenge, but I am guessing that the images that placed higher told much more of a story that related to the challenge better.

I think this is a very, very hard thing to learn on a gear site (most of the feedback I read hear is about PP this, use this lens, try this shutter speed, set the WB to this, meter off that), but I keep asking people why they choose THIS photo to show. The question is not a critisism, but intended to get people to think about what they are trying to get across when presenting their image.

When I first started, it was all about color and contrast to me. Now, I work very hard at composition and messaging, using color and contrast to hhighlight those things I wanted to bring attention to. When I am lining up the shot, I already have a picture in my mind what I am trying to say and how I want to say it; all that is left is how to execute it. It has taken a LOT of work to get to where I am and I am very frequently not happy with my results. Still.

So, from the image you posted, what are you trying to get across? What is it that you think the viewer will take from looking at the image? And, how do those things apply to the challenge subject?

chad

Greg Reese said:

Well, I just entered my first dpreview challenge and my little alpha 100 and I got crushed - ranked 142 out of 200! Unfortunately, I didn't get any comments so I'm not having a good "learning experience", as they say. Any comments and criticisms would be appreciated.

The challenge is "road no human" and my entry is at

http://www.dpreview.com/challenges/Entry.aspx?ID=470964&View=Results&Rows=25#comment

Thanks.

Greg Reese

Click to expand...

I am going to be getting my first DSLR end of the year ( a65 if it comes out ) but i have entered using pictures from my old canon a630 for the hell of it lol ( 6 of them ). My best is 39th out of 130, 42 out of 109, 61 out of 89, 192 out 269 and

and I thought this one would do better but was 96 out of 99

http://www.dpreview.com/challenges/Entry.aspx?ID=460391

Onething to concider is not everyone will vote on every picture, out of x votes you may only have 1/5 even vote on yours or less. That "brown animal" contest only 32 people looked at my photo but there were what 1000 votes?

...must be typical of many viewers in the challenge. I looked at the photo as it opens when clicking on the link you provide -- and promptly made up my mind about it.

Then, only by accident, I clicked to get the full-size image, saved it, and viewed it in FastStone. It became a different photo, showing me a sharply resolved Subaru SUV against more palatably blurred leaves.

Didn't change my phantom vote to five stars, but at least I felt I understood your point and how you tried to make it.

I bet most challenge viewers choose which entries to view in full from the thumbnails, and some viewers might not ever look at an entry at full size.

Haven't read other posts yet but a quick look showed me several things. The leaves are verry pretty but the photograph is very "snapshotish". The many cars on the street as well as signs are a great distraction. I realize you can't control this type of environment, but you need to look for another street or an angle that eliminates them and adds impact to the photograph.

At that location using a telephoto and getting evening or morning light filtering through the trees above the road and cars might have worked. Of course you could have knocked on doors and have everyone move their cars. (LOL)
--
Dave

I fully agree with everyone's comments to this post. I've entered quite a few challenges and the best I've done so far is 3rd and the worse 97th out of 100! What I find useful about thinking about a challenge subject is that some (not all) of them stretch me technically when it comes to really planning and taking a shot.

The main thing, which has already been said, is not to get discouraged. Don't be the first to enter a challenge. Have a look at a few submissions to try and get an idea of what you're up against, and just enjoy what you are doing - its supposed to be for fun!
--
Down under

Don't worry about challenge results. There were 3060 votes in the entire challenge, the winning entry has a total of just 26 votes. Only 4 people thought highly enough of the winner to give it 5 stars. In fact 3 people thought the photo was poor (1 star)!

Your first-time entry got one 5 star vote, I'd say that's not too shabby. Someone out there loved your photo.

What I learned from my challenge entries is that there will always be people who just don't like the way I shoot. But there will also be people who love the way I shoot.

This weekend I got my second paying job from someone who loves the way I shoot. Well that, plus I don't charge much since I'm just starting.

--
Lance
"STILL working on composition"

zackiedawg said:

Just to keep my sense of humor, I even entered one challenge with the expressed goal of seeing if I could place LAST! I don't care about the status of the rank or percentage - taking that too seriously is part of the problem I find with the challenge system...so aiming for rock bottom was a way of disarming the whole process. I failed, by the way - I came in NEAR the bottom, but others still beat me out for last place!

Click to expand...

It was the Cuddly Cat challenge right? If it's any consolation, your photo has my vote for last place.



--
Lance
"STILL working on composition"

Thanks everyone for all the useful feedback.
Greg Reese

just posted a comment on the contest site go check it out if you wish. I also gave you some specific sugestions on how to make the image better should you take the same type of oic in the future. Take them for what they are worth, we all see things differently.

One question I have is did you shoot this in auto mode? or one of the scene modes?

I ask this due to the settings used, cameras get it wrong more than they get it right in auto/scene modes (my opinion anyway). This is due to the fact that they have no idea what YOU are looking at in the scene, what YOU are trying to capture, they just interpret the scene as a bunch of grey values and autofocus on contrast differences. Your control over the camera is what will make you a better photographer.

I've won two chanllenges in a row!!
Never thought that was possible
I don't look at a challnenge and then go and try to take the pic though

I have like 50,000 pics in my library and I search the challlenges from time to time and when I see one I think about good pics I have taken and submit it if the challenge doesn't have a capture date specified.

I think my two winners are not the best shots I have entered, but they fit the catagory and that is what alot of people vote on

I think some are right mentioning the cars are human made and people probably thought this challenge should be road and nature only.

Nice color and idea, photo is a bit snapshot like, but I think its very pretty non the less. Keep trying even average photographers like me get lucky once in a while

This would be a spectacular autumn colour shot, were it not for the clutter of vehicles and signs on the roadway. One or two autos and a sign might not have spoiled the shot, but this many of each certainly does, IMHO.

It's difficult to learn to see clutter in a shot when presented with such a splendid display of autumn colour, but this is what you have to learn to do when composing shots... see beyond what attracted you to the scene and notice - and try and eliminate - the disctractions. For instance, maybe farther along this roadway, the tree colours might have been just as spectacular, yet the traffic and signs might not have been so plentiful??
--
Jerry
Sony V1, H5 and A350... Still learning...

'The camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera.'
-- Dorothea Lange

http://www.pbase.com/icicle50/root