Olympus USA - the end of this story

I know you are an experienced photographer who knows what he's doing, and certainly the isssue has garnered a lot of advice from others on the forum as to possible solutions. You would think it would be possible to have this figured out by now.

Within my own experience with this combination of focus module and lens the only thing I can think is that it's a manufacturering defect with that particular body. A ghost in the machine that Olympus can't isolate. Cameras are so complex these days.

Best of luck with the new one. Hopefully things are resolved.

Douglas Brown
 
I guess I'll stick to the gear I have.

Still, part of me thinks that it is nuts that they would develop a pro body and not make sure that the pro lenses would work on it. The E 3 had newer focusing and they worked on it.

Good luck with the new body Jim
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JimB
Bug Whisperer

Join us in The Weekly Close up every weekend
 
4/3rds is abandoned in favour of m4/3rds.

In one stroke this solves the problem of being behind in phase detect technology and allows them to start again.

And, truthfully speaking, with respect to AF, so far so good. That is 1/2 of the two most crucial aspects of digital photography -- AF and sensor.

They never led in either of these two areas with 4/3rds. As such, their m4/3rds is already outperforming their 4/3rds system.
 
I also know someone who had trouble with the 35-100.

Now, for me, the 35-100 is not anymore part of the system.

On the other hand, there exists a perfect 45 1.8 for shallow DOF portraits now in microfourthirds land ( and I have a good copy of the Sigma 4/3 50mm 1.4 ).

But one famous element of the 4/3 system is not recommendable anymore, thats the result - thanks to James Pilcher for reporting his story, so now the rest of us know

But perhaps accidently James Pilcher will get his problems solved, but if his 35-100 only works then with half performance then he has lost $1000 and lives with the half performance he hoped for and on the other hand helped the community.

remember, catastrophys also happen with other brands, I remember the report of a canon user who cleaned his phantastic fullframe sensor and the result was, $3000 were lost
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cheers

Mr.NoFlash
 
I'm sorry to hear your story ended this way, Jim, though I can't say I'm very surprised, given my own experience trying to get an E-3 that focused reliably. I would have hoped they'd be able to fix this kind of thing by now, though. I can't believe they're blaming your problem on the lens technology. I upgraded to a 50-200 SWD, thinking it would work better with the new AF system, but it turned out to be a waste of money.
I'm the last who wants to talk Jim back into Olympus after this disaster, but I have to say that my E-5 focuses very reliably with my 50-200 SWD. The same applies to my 50 2.0. I had some issues with my 12-60 SWD both on the E-30 and the E-5 but after the lense's second trip to the Czech Republic, these problems also are solved.

Anyway, if I were you, I think I'd jump ship, Jim - or buy the guitar. I'd never be able to regain the pleasure I'd had with my Olympus gear before the Drama.

So, whatever you do, I hope for you that you will be able to find the gear that has got what it takes to again turn you into a happy photographer.
 
Jim - I am so sorry to hear that Olympus couldn't get this ironed out...it seems so odd.

As I recall we aren't or weren't talking about a little off in focus but basically nothing in the frame in focus?

I just shot a senior with the D3, 85 f1.4 with a polarizer on the lens and fired off camera flashes with the TT5's. All I can say is one photo out of focus and that was just a bit and I was shooting directly into the sun so as to knock the contrast way way down and get some flare on the lens.

I was shooting at f2.8 to through the background out and at 100% all I can say is focus is there!

It's so odd more folks aren't complaining about their 35-100's...mine (I had more than one over my Olympus period) worked ok with my E1's and E3's but I always shot at f2.8 with it to give myself just a little extra room DOF wise...and always took a few extra shots just in case. Not to the point where I'd have only 1 out of 300 shots "slightly" out but more like 10% would be just off...I think yours is much worse and much more out of focus?

Anyhow still hoping for the best for you!

Dan

;)
 
Get them through Olympus directly with some connection? If it's the later that may help explain your perfect experience as they may have different quality standards for the equipment they gave or sold you.

At this point Doug I think it's impossible to deny that yes, Olympus did build a camera that in many sold copies would have severe auto focus issues (e-3). So severe that Olympus own full spread advertisement with a shot taken by their National Photography Olympus visionarie (keep forgetting his name but I think you know who I refer to), was back focused and then on top of that they tried to hide-that a
couple months down the line in post.

What do you call that? There was a thread about it with both magazine pics for all to see. An that's their own ad?

I also ha problems with the e-3. Wen my e 300/330/410/420 can all focus better you know there's something really wrong. It pretty much screwed up in one of my weddings and I had to shoot far more than necessary because of it to make up for it.

I wish they ha cone forward and admitted it, do a recall but they never did such thing. That 14-34? Another AF bag of hurt. Not a word from Olympus.

You can't sell expensive cameras and lenses at this bracket with those issues Canon had theirs but they have far more momentum in the market and admitted the issue (even if unwillingly).
--

Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- "You are taking life too seriously if it bugs you in some way that a guy quotes himself in the .sig quote" - Ricardo
 
Jim - I am so sorry to hear that Olympus couldn't get this ironed out...it seems so odd.

As I recall we aren't or weren't talking about a little off in focus but basically nothing in the frame in focus?

I just shot a senior with the D3, 85 f1.4 with a polarizer on the lens and fired off camera flashes with the TT5's. All I can say is one photo out of focus and that was just a bit and I was shooting directly into the sun so as to knock the contrast way way down and get some flare on the lens.
I'm hoping the D700 will give similar results if I opt for Nikon. The 85mm f/1.4 is one of the Nikkors that has my attention. A D3 is out of the question.
I was shooting at f2.8 to through the background out and at 100% all I can say is focus is there!

It's so odd more folks aren't complaining about their 35-100's
I'm glad that others are having acceptable results. I would not wish my experience on anyone.
...mine (I had more than one over my Olympus period) worked ok with my E1's and E3's but I always shot at f2.8 with it to give myself just a little extra room DOF wise...and always took a few extra shots just in case. Not to the point where I'd have only 1 out of 300 shots "slightly" out but more like 10% would be just off...I think yours is much worse and much more out of focus?
Like you, I had no issues with the 35-100mm on an E-1. Great stuff. IMO Olympus compromised its AF system at the introduction of the E-3.

To be sure, I didn't buy an expensive f/2 zoom in order to shoot at f/2.8. I realize you were doing it as a CYA, but I like to get my money's worth, if you know what I mean. :)

In my last controlled test, 3 in 20 were images with which I had no issues. That's 15%. They were almost as sharp as a CDAF image. I doubt I would see the difference in an 8x10 print. 4 in 20 were so out of focus that my wife could not tell what I photographed. The remaining 13 were in various stages of OOF and in my judgment were not acceptable for anything but maybe 4x6 or 5x7 prints.

Jim Pilcher
Summit County, Colorado, USA
 
I am wondering why everyone else using their E-5 + 35-100mm is satisfied with the results. Either they are not picky, shoot at f/5.6 all the time, or are not having problems. An ex Olympus rep has suggested to me that Olympus AF has problems on lenses faster than f/2.8. I don't know if he's right, but it's an interesting thought.
When I had a problem with my E-30 and focusing with the 1.4 30mm from Sigma, Oly told me that Oly cameras don't focus on lenses faster than f2.0. I'm not sure how to interpret that because many times to focuses just fine below f2 and other times it doesn't. 5.6 should be no problem at all. My 50-200 looks very good at 5.6 and it has the old focus engine (non SWD) in it, again though it's on the E-30.

Make it a Great day!
 
At this point Doug I think it's impossible to deny that yes, Olympus did build a camera that in many sold copies would have severe auto focus issues (e-3). So severe that Olympus own full spread advertisement with a shot taken by their National Photography Olympus visionarie (keep forgetting his name but I think you know who I refer to), was back focused and then on top of that they tried to hide-that a
couple months down the line in post.
I think it's possible that some units malfunction to varying degrees. How wide-spread is the problem? In this forum, and internet forums by their nature tend to attract more negative comment than positive, there are very few examples of people experiencing problems with the 35-100mm f2 or E5.

Wanna see a ton of problems? Try searching on the 24-70mm 2.8 in the Canon forum.

As for the famous ad, you can see less than terrific photo samples in every brand, you can see fashion photography that's technically awful, you can see art photography that makes one wonder if the person had ever in their life used a camera prior to shooting whatever is on the wall. So what? This makes the E3 a problem camera? You are reading way too much into Olympus's agency having one bad day.

I think that the camera must be defective for James to report a hit rate of just 4 perfectly focused pictures out of 20 with this lens. Even Sigma rarely hits that low a percentage.

In fact I was so surprised to read that it spurred me to get my E5 + 35-100mm out and test it in a large open concept loft room in very dim light. From near to far, at the wide, medium and tele settings the only thing I could find that gave it problems was a flat black microphone stand where the camera hesitated before focusing (I actually like this because with all the concerts I shoot the idea of a camera that has trouble focusing on mic stands has some appeal ;)

This photo was done at 3200 ISO with a shutter speed of just 1/20th of a sec. (to give you an idea of the light conditions), tele end of the focal length, and is pefectly sharp (thank-you IS) because after a short hestation the lens did finally focus .

Over 50 photos not one problem.

James, I gotta ask. What the h*ll are you trying to focus on in your tests that is giving the E5 such fits?

Douglas Brown
 
At this point Doug I think it's impossible to deny that yes, Olympus did build a camera that in many sold copies would have severe auto focus issues (e-3). So severe that Olympus own full spread advertisement with a shot taken by their National Photography Olympus visionarie (keep forgetting his name but I think you know who I refer to), was back focused and then on top of that they tried to hide-that a
couple months down the line in post.
I think it's possible that some units malfunction to varying degrees. How wide-spread is the problem? In this forum, and internet forums by their nature tend to attract more negative comment than positive, there are very few examples of people experiencing problems with the 35-100mm f2 or E5.
Well I am specifically talking for example, for the E-3. I think there's enough data points that indicate there more than a "small amount" of E-3's with AF problems. I am not saying all do it but sure seems a sizable number. Moreover, I pointed out that Olympus' own commercial showed the problem. You would never think, that a company would make such a mistake, ever. But they did.

My E-3- like many here was sent to Olympus and it returned far worse than it was. The last time I sent it to NYC, maybe it was finally fixed, but I will never know now for certain. But my point is, I think it's a bit denialist to think the E-3 line was without issues. As for the 14-35 the problem is almost every single copy of it if not 100% all them- hardly an isolated issue.
Wanna see a ton of problems? Try searching on the 24-70mm 2.8 in the Canon forum.
Just because Canon has issues doesn't make Olympus ok. Finding many hits about that lens doesn't prove much to me as far as the E-3 specifically goes. Note that I am mentioning the E-3. It looks like the E-5 may share some of the issues because apparently they are based off the same module but I don't know. It does seem that the 35-100 may have some problems wide open, as it seems like Olympus always had an issue with lenses wide open. But I don't know.

The E-3 though is a different matter.
As for the famous ad, you can see less than terrific photo samples in every brand, you can see fashion photography that's technically awful, you can see art photography that makes one wonder if the person had ever in their life used a camera prior to shooting whatever is on the wall.
I am not talking about "less than terrific photos samples" - I am talking about a photograph shot for pro magazine commercial shot by a top pro in the field. It showed the problem rather well. Then Olympus went on to cover it up in post which doesn't inspire confidence in the brand at all on that end.
So what? This makes the E3 a problem camera? You are reading way too much into Olympus's agency having one bad day.
No I am not. If you read again, I gave you the commercial as yet one more instance of the E-3 back focus issue, not as the main set of data accumulated for it.
I think that the camera must be defective for James to report a hit rate of just 4 perfectly focused pictures out of 20 with this lens. Even Sigma rarely hits that low a percentage.
I agree with you on that one. Keep in mind I was specifically talking about the E-3.
In fact I was so surprised to read that it spurred me to get my E5 + 35-100mm out and test it in a large open concept loft room in very dim light. From near to far, at the wide, medium and tele settings the only thing I could find that gave it problems was a flat black microphone stand where the camera hesitated before focusing (I actually like this because with all the concerts I shoot the idea of a camera that has trouble focusing on mic stands has some appeal ;)
You won't hear an issue on that end from me :-) I know better.
This photo was done at 3200 ISO with a shutter speed of just 1/20th of a sec. (to give you an idea of the light conditions), tele end of the focal length, and is pefectly sharp (thank-you IS) because after a short hestation the lens did finally focus .

Over 50 photos not one problem.

James, I gotta ask. What the h*ll are you trying to focus on in your tests that is giving the E5 such fits?
I noticed you missed one key question I asked you point blank:

How did you get those Olympus cameras? Did you buy them off a regular retailer or did you get them directly from Olympus? Did miss the question? I ask because it wouldn't be too surprising that if you got them from Olympus directly, they made darn double plus sure that your cameras were on a "certifiably good batch."

So let me ask again so there are no misinterpretations:

Did you buy your E-3 from a regular retailer? Did you buy your 35-100 from a regular retailer? Did you buy your E-30 from a regular retailer? Did you buy the E-5 from a regular retailer? Or was any of those directly from Olympus? Was any of those from Olympus at a discount or free even?

There shouldn't be a problem with being fully disclosed. PC video cards for example for years were given to reviewers in particular models that "ran hot" - i..e. they had surprisingly over clocking capability beyond the normal. It's the same mechanic, potentially if you get them from Olympus which would explain your discrepancy from many user experiences out there vs yours.
Douglas Brown
--

Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- "You are taking life too seriously if it bugs you in some way that a guy quotes himself in the .sig quote" - Ricardo
 
When I had a problem with my E-30 and focusing with the 1.4 30mm from Sigma, Oly told me that Oly cameras don't focus on lenses faster than f2.0. I'm not sure how to interpret that because many times to focuses just fine below f2 and other times it doesn't. 5.6 should be no problem at all. My 50-200 looks very good at 5.6 and it has the old focus engine (non SWD) in it, again though it's on the E-30.
Our lenses always AF at full aperture. So your E-30 always focuses at f/1.4 with that Sigma. What happens when you set aperture to f/5.6 is that the lens focuses at f/1.4, stops down to f5.6 for the exposure and then opens up again to f/1.4. f/5.6 might mask small focus errors because of the inherently greater DOF at that aperture.

Jim Pilcher
Summit County, Colorado, USA
 
James, I gotta ask. What the h*ll are you trying to focus on in your tests that is giving the E5 such fits?
Let's see. The last test was a grey box, about 45 cm square, with graphics and text printed on it. Tripod mounted, manual exposure, normal AF sensitivity, 3-1/2 meter distance, natural light, ISO 800, f/2, SAF+MF. I defocus between each of 20 shots. I make a Live View CDAF reference shot at the beginning of each sequence. My E-5 in Live View shows me just how good the 35-100mm can be; it's crisp even at f/2.

Prior to that it was a properly aligned LensAlign target (many times, actually)
Prior to that it was the license plate on my car at about 7 meters.
Prior to that it was a baseball field scoreboard at about 50 meters.

In between all of these, has been my lovely wife @ f/2 and many other OOF subjects at various apertures between f/2 and f/5.6.

Jim Pilcher
Summit County, Colorado, USA
 
I know you are just trying to be precise and draw conclusions knowing the full story. I for one tend to believe what Doug writes. I've "heard" his words and viewed his photos here for years. He has to be one of the most authoritative and respected members of the forum. While I do think for myself, when Doug speaks, I pay special attention.

Jim Pilcher
Summit County, Colorado, USA
 
I am not sure what you are trying to say. I am not questioning Dougs experience or the like. I am precisely asking if he got equipment from Olympus directly precisely because he could get "double checked equipment" and that would explain the different experience.

As for the e-3 itself I believe I have my own mind and can reach my own conclusions. I do pay attention to what Doug writes on that end but in the end I have my own background and experiences, and can think on my own accordingly.

I wasn't speaking for you but if I gave that impression my apologies. I am speaking for myself.
 
At this point Doug I think it's impossible to deny that yes, Olympus did build a camera that in many sold copies would have severe auto focus issues (e-3). So severe that Olympus own full spread advertisement with a shot taken by their National Photography Olympus visionarie (keep forgetting his name but I think you know who I refer to), was back focused and then on top of that they tried to hide-that a
couple months down the line in post.
I think it's possible that some units malfunction to varying degrees.
Probably true. A bunch of people reported having two or more copies of the E-3 where the AF performance varied slightly or widely.
How wide-spread is the problem? In this forum, and internet forums by their nature tend to attract more negative comment than positive, there are very few examples of people experiencing problems with the 35-100mm f2 or E5.
Well, again, what you say is true about a lot of reported gear issues, Doug, but as far as the E-3 goes, a lot of us had trouble with multiple copies, so I don't think it can be chalked up to just a few bad apples being blown out of proportion by internet forum dynamics. I don't know about the E-5 and 35-100, but in Jim's case, at least, it sounds like he has had issues with more than one copy of the lens.

Back to the E-3 and internet dynamics, I got my copy the day the model came out in Japan. I noticed problems with it, and a few weeks later I started a thread over on 43photo, where several other people chimed in that they were seeing the same thing. It developed into a huge debate. After about two weeks of this, I went to a Japanese forum to see if people over here were having problems and how Oly Japan was resolving them, and I found another monster thread over there which had started almost the same day as the 43photo one, and the conversation paralleled the one on the American board so closely that it practically could have been a word-for-word translation. We found out later that there had been a similar thread or series of them on a German forum.

The fact that these conversations popped up independently in different countries (and were not started by Canikon shills but long-time Oly loyalists--some people might have described us as fanboys/girls!), along with the fact that some very experienced and skilled users were having trouble with multiple copies, makes me think that these are not isolated incidents we're talking about.

At the same time, like Jim said in another post in this thread, a lot of equally respected and trusted members reported that their AF was just fine, so it's difficult to know what to think. I do know that it's not user error we're talking about. Sure, there were a few newbies who turned out to be trying to shoot shallow DOF with all their focus points active or whatever, but these issues were resolved within a couple of hours of the person asking advice online. Once you take these people out of the equation, you still have a bunch of experienced users with ongoing problems on multiple copies.
As for the famous ad, you can see less than terrific photo samples in every brand, you can see fashion photography that's technically awful, you can see art photography that makes one wonder if the person had ever in their life used a camera prior to shooting whatever is on the wall. So what? This makes the E3 a problem camera? You are reading way too much into Olympus's agency having one bad day.
If that were the only thing that people were basing their opinion on, then you might have a point.
I think that the camera must be defective for James to report a hit rate of just 4 perfectly focused pictures out of 20 with this lens. Even Sigma rarely hits that low a percentage.

In fact I was so surprised to read that it spurred me to get my E5 + 35-100mm out and test it in a large open concept loft room in very dim light. From near to far, at the wide, medium and tele settings the only thing I could find that gave it problems was a flat black microphone stand where the camera hesitated before focusing (I actually like this because with all the concerts I shoot the idea of a camera that has trouble focusing on mic stands has some appeal ;)

This photo was done at 3200 ISO with a shutter speed of just 1/20th of a sec. (to give you an idea of the light conditions), tele end of the focal length, and is pefectly sharp (thank-you IS) because after a short hestation the lens did finally focus .

Over 50 photos not one problem.

James, I gotta ask. What the h*ll are you trying to focus on in your tests that is giving the E5 such fits?
Again, the fact that your camera works is great, but it does not say anything about Jim's or anybody else's.

Julie
 
I've used this lens wide open on the E3, two E30's and an E5. Always in marginal lighting conditions that stress the AF system the most (I only use it in low light), almost always with good results. I've experienced the occassional hunting, only marginally more than with the 50-200mm, which I put down to the extreme conditions I'm shooting under (low light, elite dancers going full speed leaping and jumping).
The idea that the 35-100mm can't auto focus on any of these bodies - all using the same focusing module - doesn't come anywhere near my experience with this lens.
I'm no expert, but I think there is more to AF performance than just the module. I'm under the impression that the mirror is another part which could potentially cause trouble.

Anyway, I think it was Jan 3x5 who had AF issues with his 35-100 on the E-3. He switched to the E-30, and that body was much better. It seems like there were a few other people who had similar experiences, where the E-30 was more stable. I don't know if that was a trend or just coincidence.
If I remember correctly you do mainly landscapes in good light. I'd be very surprised if the 35-100mm had problems with that scenario (do people really think Olympus would release a camera that can't AF in bright light on scenery?).
I don't know if Jim's problem with his E-5 is exactly the same as mine with the E-3, as I had trouble with pretty much all my lenses, on two different E-3 bodies (but never on the E-1, two E-500s, or E-510), and light levels didn't seem to make a difference.

Subject distance was a factor. The E-3 usually did okay for me close up, but at distances longer than three or four feet, I started getting errors. The frustrating thing was that sometimes the cameras would perform just fine, so I knew it couldn't be my settings or technique. I often wonder if Olympus test their cameras at short distances, which could cover up a lot of focus errors.
That you are having problems, and I don't doubt that you are, is truly a mystery.

Hopefully the new E5 will give you a much greater improvement than the manager suggested.

It sounds to me like you have had such a problem with this combination that a change of brands might be what's needed to restore the joy of photography for you. Or, you could change formats to m4/3's (the EP-3 / E-PL3 or GH-2 might be good alternatives for your style of photography)
However, it isn't all peace, love and understanding on the other side of the fence. I spent a couple years with Canon and can tell you from hanging out in that forum that AF problems were epedemic amongst users there at that time. To the point where every lens purchase felt like a roll of the dice.
This is pretty much why I went straight to Nikon, and Canon was never in the running. At least, not the 5DII or 1D3, I think it was? I'm sure many Canon shooters are very happy with their AF, but to mix metaphors: where there's smoke there's fire, and I had no burning desire to jump from the frying pan of wonky AF straight into that raging fire. It's not like there are zero problems with Nikon cameras, but that brand definitely seems the safer bet these days. As someone else mentioned, though, I would pay close attention to the posts about issues with the D7000.

Julie
 
Jim that is what I remember just crazy out of this world poor results and why I can't imagine Olympus couldn't figure something out!?

I haven't heard of anyone having such low keepers with any system let alone Olympus and it's uber body...something totally amiss here.

I know it's not you by the way...but I'd figured Olympus would have found something and let you know what it was.

I guess you've considered finding someone else with Olympus in your area and trying a different E5 and checking some of their lens with your E5...ideally said person would have a 35-100 also.

Dan
 
Canon EOS-1D Mark III autofocus problems. Still has not been successfully totally resolved. And that’s was a $4000 body not just a single lens. All manufactures have problems. This is NOT a brand bash but an example of a great piece of equipment with flaws.

That said if Iowened the lens I would not be so philosophical but really peeved.
.
--
Collin

http://www.pbase.com/collinbaxter
http://collinbaxter.zenfolio.com/

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. (George Carlin)

 
Jim

Glad to see you have got some resolution. Even if it not what you wanted. You can now move on or tay with the system and live with the "Iffy" 35-100 or change systems. I would not like to be in your shoes and have to make that decision.

Good luck.

Collin

--
Collin

http://www.pbase.com/collinbaxter
http://collinbaxter.zenfolio.com/

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. (George Carlin)

 

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