D60 AF, tracking.

As stated on other posts. I am planning to upgrade to the D60 from my E-10. This weekend was the kicker, tryong to shoot soccer games and struggeling to focus. Half pumping away on the shutter to focus and re-foucs. The bottom line is the camera just cant re-focus and shoot fast enough to keep up with the action.

Shutter lag, once focused and fps, + buffer are adequate for my shooting style, I just can't get the darn thing to focus quickly and accuratley.

whoever has used both....

How well does the focus tracking work on the D60?

And how fast can the D60 re-focus and shoot compared to the E-10.

Any input would be appreciated.

Check with Adam T. He has an E10 or 20. I'm sure the shutter lag will be better. Ideal is the pricier 1D for sports, but you will see a lot better success with the D60.

Quite a number of people here use the D60 for sports action and have great results. There are handful of forum members who do no believe that the D60 can shoot action and prefer the 1D. I have had great success using the D60 for action shots. Of course I moved up from an Olympus C2100UZ so relative comparison the D60 is awesome. I guess speed is a relative thing so it really depends on what you are used to.
You can see some examples at this gallery
http://www.pbase.com/wheatenman/best_football

John Callanan said:

As stated on other posts. I am planning to upgrade to the D60 from
my E-10. This weekend was the kicker, tryong to shoot soccer games
and struggeling to focus. Half pumping away on the shutter to focus
and re-foucs. The bottom line is the camera just cant re-focus and
shoot fast enough to keep up with the action.

Shutter lag, once focused and fps, + buffer are adequate for my
shooting style, I just can't get the darn thing to focus quickly
and accuratley.

whoever has used both....

How well does the focus tracking work on the D60?

And how fast can the D60 re-focus and shoot compared to the E-10.

Any input would be appreciated.

Click to expand...

--
Dan Brown
http://www.pbase.com/wheatenman

'If nothing changes, nothing changes'

I had the E-10 but only briefly. I could not handle how slow that camera was so off it went. I have the D60 now and can say the focus speed is worlds ahead of the E-10. Works ok for me and motorsports.

Here's a thread up today of football shots. http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=3885262

One of the main improvements you will find is in the lack of noise at higher ISOs. 200 and 400 work very well.

My two cents...

Compared to your current camera, you'll find the D60 has very good shutter lag, FPS and excellent low-noise at high ASA speeds.

The AF, however, is not the D60's strong point. If you're shooting outdoors, though, I would just use manual focus. Of course, there's a whole contingent of people on this forum who don't know how to use manual focus and they start moaning and groaning whenever I suggest that, so you'll have to decide for yourself what works best.

Andy Frazer
http://www.gorillasites.com

Thanks for the input so far.

I understand the ISO/noise benifit over the D60, I also understand that the D1 is "the" true sports camera. But I am just shooting my kids, I do not need the huge burst rate as I don't want to spend all day reviewing photos. And the D60 appears to have twice the buffer as the E-10.

My main question was to find out how effective the focus lock on a moving object is with the D60. as compared to the pumping and refocusing required with the E-10.

Does the D60 even have this feature?

Thanks,

andyfrazer,

Manual focus would certainly be an option for me, it really is scetchy at best with the focus by wire on the E-10, at least for action shots.

Does the D60 have the focus tracking feature?

The 1D and the D60 have different AF engines. The 1D has a much faster lock-on speed and can track on faster subjects.

The D60 will be a step up from the 10, but you will still find yourself gettinig frustrated on cloudy days.

I tend to find my D60's tracking more successful when the subject is moving mostly left to right...with the subject not moving front to back very quickly.

A search will yield tons of people complaining about the AF speed on the D60, but compared to a non-DSLR, it is great.

There is more to tracking though. The other part of the equation is the lens. If you have a lens that will allow you to dip into 2.8, you'll get faster focus times (and therefore better results when tracking).

John Callanan said:

Thanks for the input so far.

I understand the ISO/noise benifit over the D60, I also understand
that the D1 is "the" true sports camera. But I am just shooting my
kids, I do not need the huge burst rate as I don't want to spend
all day reviewing photos. And the D60 appears to have twice the
buffer as the E-10.

My main question was to find out how effective the focus lock on a
moving object is with the D60. as compared to the pumping and
refocusing required with the E-10.

Does the D60 even have this feature?

Thanks,

Click to expand...

--
Regards,

Bill

In my camera bag:
Canon EOS D60
Canon 24-85mm, 28mm f/1.8, 50 f/1.4
Sigma 15-30mm, Sigma 50-500mm
On a shelf: Canon A2e, Nikon Coolpix 995

http://www.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=20514

http://o2bnme.fotki.com/public/miscellaneous/d60_test_shots/

John to answer your question Yes. The d60 has a AI servo for tracking and works very well with a good lens. Lens is the key here. Like a 70-200L. Ofcourse its not a 1D but should work well for your needs and agian if a good lens is used.

John Callanan said:

Thanks for the input so far.

I understand the ISO/noise benifit over the D60, I also understand
that the D1 is "the" true sports camera. But I am just shooting my
kids, I do not need the huge burst rate as I don't want to spend
all day reviewing photos. And the D60 appears to have twice the
buffer as the E-10.

My main question was to find out how effective the focus lock on a
moving object is with the D60. as compared to the pumping and
refocusing required with the E-10.

Does the D60 even have this feature?

Thanks,

Click to expand...

--
Steven
D60
707
C700

Yes it has tracking and yes it works pretty well, but you must consider:

1) It requires just a bit more light than 1 shot mode

2) The AF area is small, so it's not uncommon for a moving object to fall out of the AF area

3) The better the lens, the better it will track

Most of my experience is tracking big birds like Egrets and Herons. After some practice, it gets fairly easy. The only challenge is keeping the object in the AF area. I shot hawks a few weeks ago, and had probably an 80% sucess rate as far as focus. When the birds got more than say 150feet, I had maybe 95% sucess, because they moved through the viewfinder more slowly. Sorry I don't have any samples where I am right now.

Jason

John Callanan said:

Thanks for the input so far.

I understand the ISO/noise benifit over the D60, I also understand
that the D1 is "the" true sports camera. But I am just shooting my
kids, I do not need the huge burst rate as I don't want to spend
all day reviewing photos. And the D60 appears to have twice the
buffer as the E-10.

My main question was to find out how effective the focus lock on a
moving object is with the D60. as compared to the pumping and
refocusing required with the E-10.

Does the D60 even have this feature?

Thanks,

Click to expand...

Thanks, bill and steven,

Your input is helpful.

I know the 1d is currently the ultimate, but it is overkill for a hobbiest, and I can not justify the cost.

From your input it sounds as if the D60 along with good L lenses will do the trick. the ISO range along with 2.8 lenses should really help.

My style is more of anticipation rather than rapid burst. If the D60 will allow a half press for focus, and can track for brief delay prior to full press, also a faster inital focus, I think it will do the trick.

Thanks again

Everything that I have read about this is that the D60 autofocus, which does have focus tracking, does not do that well in low light or low contrast situations. It does best when using faster lenses in a high contrast well lit -outdoors situation. More than than a few people have commented on this to make me not to want this particular model for the type of photography that I do, which is high speed action photgrpahy, even though it is mostly outdoors. I have also heard Canon reps themselves relate similar views about it. But if you are talking about your kids, then maybe it will work for that. I am sure that you will get opinions on here of people that like the autofocus. But it does not have the capability of the 1D or EOS3 which have excellent autofocus systems.
--
Allan R

While it is no 1D, I manage to make it work for V8 Supercars and rodeos.

Allan Rossmore said:

Everything that I have read about this is that the D60 autofocus,
which does have focus tracking, does not do that well in low light
or low contrast situations. It does best when using faster lenses
in a high contrast well lit -outdoors situation. More than than a
few people have commented on this to make me not to want this
particular model for the type of photography that I do, which is
high speed action photgrpahy, even though it is mostly outdoors. I
have also heard Canon reps themselves relate similar views about
it. But if you are talking about your kids, then maybe it will work
for that. I am sure that you will get opinions on here of people
that like the autofocus. But it does not have the capability of the
1D or EOS3 which have excellent autofocus systems.
--
Allan R

Click to expand...

Yep the D60 is no 1D. But this is just the posts the deter newbies from buying the D60. This kind of post is also why the D60 autofocus is so exaggerated. How can anyone compare a 4500.00 camera to a 2000.00 dollar camera. Until something better comes along the D60 has the same autofocus as its real competition the D100 and S2.

Allan Rossmore said:

Everything that I have read about this is that the D60 autofocus,
which does have focus tracking, does not do that well in low light
or low contrast situations. It does best when using faster lenses
in a high contrast well lit -outdoors situation. More than than a
few people have commented on this to make me not to want this
particular model for the type of photography that I do, which is
high speed action photgrpahy, even though it is mostly outdoors. I
have also heard Canon reps themselves relate similar views about
it. But if you are talking about your kids, then maybe it will work
for that. I am sure that you will get opinions on here of people
that like the autofocus. But it does not have the capability of the
1D or EOS3 which have excellent autofocus systems.
--
Allan R

Click to expand...

--
Steven
D60
707
C700

Hi,

The experiments I have done with af servo on the D60 are very good with a wide lens providing the subject is moving across in front of the camera.

The only time it struggled for me was with a very fast moving dog coming towards me and she was moving very, very fast from 30 feet out right up to the lens.

For soccer action shots etc I is fine for me.

Regards,

Richard

Steven said:

Allan Rossmore said:

Everything that I have read about this is that the D60 autofocus,
which does have focus tracking, does not do that well in low light
or low contrast situations. It does best when using faster lenses
in a high contrast well lit -outdoors situation. More than than a
few people have commented on this to make me not to want this
particular model for the type of photography that I do, which is
high speed action photgrpahy, even though it is mostly outdoors. I
have also heard Canon reps themselves relate similar views about
it. But if you are talking about your kids, then maybe it will work
for that. I am sure that you will get opinions on here of people
that like the autofocus. But it does not have the capability of the
1D or EOS3 which have excellent autofocus systems.
--
Allan R

Click to expand...

--
Steven
D60
707
C700

Click to expand...

It looks to me in this pic that shutter speed is as much a culprit, but if not you have to realize that regardless of the unending arguments that flow here, the D60's focus speed isn't in league with a 1D, which in the case of your above photo would have been captured with both eyes closed. I'm not trying to be smug as much as I'd suggest starting with Tv mode and go from there trying to capture people in motion like this. You might also try the "ambush" method of manually focusing in the area they are headed toward and nail them as they enter that "zone". Good luck........

John Callanan said:

As stated on other posts. I am planning to upgrade to the D60 from
my E-10. This weekend was the kicker, tryong to shoot soccer games
and struggeling to focus. Half pumping away on the shutter to focus
and re-foucs. The bottom line is the camera just cant re-focus and
shoot fast enough to keep up with the action.

Shutter lag, once focused and fps, + buffer are adequate for my
shooting style, I just can't get the darn thing to focus quickly
and accuratley.

whoever has used both....

How well does the focus tracking work on the D60?

And how fast can the D60 re-focus and shoot compared to the E-10.

Any input would be appreciated.

Click to expand...

John,

You will find that the E-10 is not anywere near the same league as the D60 in any of the areas you are worried about. But, it does have to be used properly.

I guess a couple of questions are in order. What operating condition was the camera in for your posted picture? And more importantly to me, what lens was used?

The operating condition is important for a couple of reasons. If you are in the Auto mode (green rectangle on the mode wheel) you can not use AI servo focus mode. Without AI Servo mode the camera must take the time to refocus each time the camera is brought to half press. But then only that focus point is used for burst of pictures, and that means that the first picture MAY be in focus, but others probably will not be on a moving target. If you don't want to use the Tv mode and set the shutter speeds yourself, try the Sports Mode (the running person image on the mode control dial). Also try using the burst mode and the AI Servo mode of focus. The AI Servo mode will continuously focus on the target as long as the shutter is held half way or more. This means that you do not have to keep bringing the shutter button to half smash and wait for focus for each shot.

More important to me, is what lens did you use on the D60 for this picture? The reason I say that is that there seems to be some real issues with this image. I can not tell where the camera focussed at all in this image, but this could be cause by camera motion if you used a slow shutter speed. There seems to be rather severe CA in this image, along with "blueing". And last, but far from least, is that vignetting I see in the corners? wow

Sooo...what lens and what operating mode please?

Darrell

John Callanan said:

As stated on other posts. I am planning to upgrade to the D60 from
my E-10. This weekend was the kicker, tryong to shoot soccer games
and struggeling to focus. Half pumping away on the shutter to focus
and re-foucs. The bottom line is the camera just cant re-focus and
shoot fast enough to keep up with the action.

Shutter lag, once focused and fps, + buffer are adequate for my
shooting style, I just can't get the darn thing to focus quickly
and accuratley.

whoever has used both....

How well does the focus tracking work on the D60?

And how fast can the D60 re-focus and shoot compared to the E-10.

Any input would be appreciated.

Click to expand...

I still have both and use both quite frequently. The D60 follows the birds I do and focusing is pretty quick (amazing, compared ot the E10). Also, I find the lenses don't distort at their widest setting. I beleive the D60 will be a major step up for you and you'll love it. The only thing I might say negatively is that a D60+ is going to come sooner or later a wait until Februray might be the smart thing to do. If you don't, though, the D60 will suit you for a long time to come.

Mike

John Callanan said:

As stated on other posts. I am planning to upgrade to the D60 from
my E-10. This weekend was the kicker, tryong to shoot soccer games
and struggeling to focus. Half pumping away on the shutter to focus
and re-foucs. The bottom line is the camera just cant re-focus and
shoot fast enough to keep up with the action.

Shutter lag, once focused and fps, + buffer are adequate for my
shooting style, I just can't get the darn thing to focus quickly
and accuratley.

whoever has used both....

How well does the focus tracking work on the D60?

And how fast can the D60 re-focus and shoot compared to the E-10.

Any input would be appreciated.

Click to expand...

DOH! My bad, sorry. I thought you were saying you had taken this picture with a D60. Never mind my comments and questions. I am just dense soemtimes.

That said, I am SURE that the D60 will blow you away if this is the kind of image you are getting from the E-10.

The lens selection will be very important, and will depend on the funds you have for the camera / lens combo. The 28-135 mm IS is much lambasted, but I really like mine. It can not compare to a good L lens, but I still like it for general use. I borrowed a 70-200 L F2.8 IS and was REALLY please with the results. I thought it would make an awsomes sports lens. The F4 version would probably be just as good, minus some low light capability. And used 80-200 F 2.8 L lenses are often found at around at just over the cost of a new 28-135 mm IS.

Darrell

Token said:

I guess a couple of questions are in order. What operating
condition was the camera in for your posted picture? And more
importantly to me, what lens was used?

The operating condition is important for a couple of reasons. If
you are in the Auto mode (green rectangle on the mode wheel) you
can not use AI servo focus mode. Without AI Servo mode the camera
must take the time to refocus each time the camera is brought to
half press. But then only that focus point is used for burst of
pictures, and that means that the first picture MAY be in focus,
but others probably will not be on a moving target. If you don't
want to use the Tv mode and set the shutter speeds yourself, try
the Sports Mode (the running person image on the mode control
dial). Also try using the burst mode and the AI Servo mode of
focus. The AI Servo mode will continuously focus on the target as
long as the shutter is held half way or more. This means that you
do not have to keep bringing the shutter button to half smash and
wait for focus for each shot.

More important to me, is what lens did you use on the D60 for this
picture? The reason I say that is that there seems to be some real
issues with this image. I can not tell where the camera focussed
at all in this image, but this could be cause by camera motion if
you used a slow shutter speed. There seems to be rather severe CA
in this image, along with "blueing". And last, but far from least,
is that vignetting I see in the corners? wow

Sooo...what lens and what operating mode please?

Darrell

John Callanan said:

As stated on other posts. I am planning to upgrade to the D60 from
my E-10. This weekend was the kicker, tryong to shoot soccer games
and struggeling to focus. Half pumping away on the shutter to focus
and re-foucs. The bottom line is the camera just cant re-focus and
shoot fast enough to keep up with the action.

Shutter lag, once focused and fps, + buffer are adequate for my
shooting style, I just can't get the darn thing to focus quickly
and accuratley.

whoever has used both....

How well does the focus tracking work on the D60?

And how fast can the D60 re-focus and shoot compared to the E-10.

Any input would be appreciated.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...