New Camera Question

For years, I have used a Nikon D40. Got rid of that because I just got tired of the bulk on trips. Since then, I have grown accustomed to a Canon PowerShot SD1100 IS.

I love the size of the camera. Very pocketable. Limited on image quality, but... I expect that with the size of the camera and sensor.

The camera is starting to show some "aging" and I am needing to replace it.

So here are my desires:

No Full Size DSLR.

I am interested in the small form factors of the Four-Thirds systems, but not necessary.
Fast autofocus. Some optical zoom.
Decent indoor shots, but primarily used in outside daylight shots on trips.
Not really a "brand" type of guy, so Canon, Pani, Oly, Sony... does not matter.
Some manual controls would be nice. Aperture priority...
Very little Lag on Focusing...LOL

Quality images of course. If RAW is better than JPEG output of said camera, I am fine with that as well.

Pretty much it. THANKS EVERYONE FOR THE INPUT AND SUGGESTIONS!

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-Dwain
http://www.pbase.com/dtmoody

Just some thoughts:

Are you prepared to go tothe size of a M4/3, Sony NEX or Samsung NX series with a general purpose zoom lens? If the answer is "yes", then I suggest that you start there because one of these cameras will meet the rest of your requirements.

If the answer is no, then how about a top of the line compact like the Canon G12, Panasonic LX5, Olympus XZ-1, etc?

If size is really important, look at the Canon S95.
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Chris R

Thanks Chris!

You know, I considered the S95. But thought I would adventure into the world of Four-Thirds. Was intrigued by the Sony NEX series. The only thing that stops me is the Lens. Which, I probably could live with. I gather I would have to use one to see how comfortable I felt with it. Any advantages other than ZOOM over the compacts listed below?

...But have been bouncing back and forth between the S95, LX5 and XZ-1...
Exactly the three I have had my eyes on! lol
--
-Dwain
http://www.pbase.com/dtmoody

I have the Panasonic GF1, GF2 and the LX5. For the GF1 and GF2 I have 6 lenses for them. The GF2 with the pancake 20mm f1.7 lens can fit easily in a jacket pocket. The LX5 with its' fixed f2 24mm - 90mm (35mm equiv.) is nice but I would suggest looking at the Olympus Pen E-PL3 camera which is just a little bit smaller than the Panasonic LX5. And the E-PL3 has a better LCD screen which is 90 degrees moveable and will accept all of the Olympus and Panasonic Micro Four Thirds lenses and many other lenses with an adapter. The LX5 is 4.33 x 2.56 x 1.69 (inches) and the E-PL3 is 4.33 x 2.52 x 1.46 (inches). I don't have the E-PL3 but it is high on my list. Testes has shown that the Olympus JPG photos out of the camera is better than the Panasonic JPG photos out of the camera. However, I am satisfy with the Panasonic JPG photos look.

dtmoody said:

Thanks Chris!

You know, I considered the S95. But thought I would adventure into the world of Four-Thirds. Was intrigued by the Sony NEX series. The only thing that stops me is the Lens. Which, I probably could live with. I gather I would have to use one to see how comfortable I felt with it. Any advantages other than ZOOM over the compacts listed below?

Click to expand...

The mirrorless cameras have DSLR sized sensors which means much better quality low light shots and better dynamic range. The better ones also have focusing which is very nearly as fast as a DSLR.

I have a Panasonic GF1 and a GH2 but I also have a semi-pro Canon DSLR. The GH2 in particular is almost as good as a DSLR for everything except action photography or extreme wildlife, and is much better then a DSLR for video.

dtmoody said:

...But have been bouncing back and forth between the S95, LX5 and XZ-1...
Exactly the three I have had my eyes on! lol

Click to expand...

Personally I would go for a mirrorless if you don't mind the size, otherwise the S95 because of the very small size which means that it will always be a very useful even as a second camera. Unfortunately I can't really justify one to my wife!

If you can afford it and don't mind the fixed focal length, what about the Fujifilm X100?

dtmoody said:

--
-Dwain
http://www.pbase.com/dtmoody

Click to expand...

--
Chris R

Chris, I would love to have the Fuji X100. But I'd rather not shell out that kind of dough yet...lol
I'll look more at the GH2. Thanks for your help!
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-Dwain

I have the GF1 and GH2 and my friend uses the GF2. These are three great cameras with very good IQ. The GH2 is definitely better in low light situations but everywhere else the GF can match it. The GF1 is just one of those very well made, and well thought out cameras that become classics. I am 68 years old and have been doing photography since I was 13. I have, over the years, bought many many cameras but the GF1 is my favorite. It is just fun to use. You must get it wilth a clearviewer (approx. $60) or the evf ($149). I have both and they both do the job adequately.

Good Luck,

Hal

You will be very happy.

Was reading up on the Oly E-PL3 yesterday... Have been reading up on the Pani GF2 as well. Thanks for your help!
--
-Dwain

Thank you sir... I will look into the Pani's you mentioned.
--
-Dwain

I like small light cameras also. I have been tempted by the Olympus micro 4/3 and some day I may go that route, but I bought a Nikon D3100 and Tamron 18-270 VC PZD instead. It's not that much bigger and heavier than an Olympus E-PL2 with 14-150 lens and EVF attached, and it lets me use all of my Nikon gear.

Since you don't have a lot of other gear, the micro 4/3 makes sense. I like the Olympus system more than the Panasonic because they are a little smaller and lighter and they seem to be better at high iso's. The Panasonics are more SLR like and have built-in EVF's so they have their advantages too. I don't think you'd go wrong with either system.

Chris R-UK said:

The mirrorless cameras have DSLR sized sensors which means much better quality low light shots and better dynamic range.

Click to expand...

The m43rds cameras have smaller sensors than dslrs. Both m43rds and dslr's are capable of better low light photos, but only if you put a prime lens on them. The dslr is about the same as the best compacts for low light with a standard zoom lens, m43rds is actually worse with the standard zoom lens.

Chris R-UK said:

The better ones also have focusing which is very nearly as fast as a DSLR.

Click to expand...

Among the ones that are currently available, the only ones that have focussing nearly as fast as a dslr are the ones that are physically nearly as large as a dslr as well.

The announced but not yet available Olympus m43rds camera claims to have fast autofocussing, and we know it can be done from the larger 4/3rds cameras that have done it, so it might be something to hold out for and see if it lives up to the marketing hype.

As it is right now, I don't like the NEX series. It has a dslr-sized sensor - but because the best low light lens you can get for it is f2.8, it's still more than a stop behind a dslr, and on-par about with a m43rds which you can get an f1.7 for.

The shutter is loud. The autofocus lag (sometimes referred to as shutter lag though it isn't) is compact-level. The menus are apparently confusing. And because of the dslr-sized sensor, you also get dslr-sized lenses, so you once you put any sort of zoom lens on it's not that much smaller than a dslr.

Here's what I mean -



Wow, smaller right?



...not that much.

Actually, the m43rds cameras have something of a similar problem to - once you put any sort of zoom lens on them they're smaller than a dslr, but...not hugely so.

dtmoody said:

...But have been bouncing back and forth between the S95, LX5 and XZ-1...
Exactly the three I have had my eyes on! lol

Click to expand...

s95 - the only one that's "jeans pocketable". Slightly thicker than your sd1100, it's actually a tad bulky in a jeans pocket but after a while you forget that it's there. The lx5 and xz-1 are more like carrying a small brick in your pocket - you can fit them in a jeans pocket, but you aren't going to forget they're there.

Here's a size comparison -





xz-1 - has the best low light lens of any compact right now - f1.8-f2.5 at the long end, which frankly is amazing. Also has a good reputation for being sharp overall. I don't like that it won't show you the iso when you half-press, but it's main complaint from people is soft jpg's - I'm told you can convert them in RAW and they're much better, then all 3 camera are about the same...the xz-1 might have the edge.

lx5 - the only camera of this group that really has near-dslr autofocus speeds (little to no shutter lag). Does not have dslr shot-to-shot times, though. But I've tried it person next to a Canon t2i, and it's really snappy for autofocussing. Panasonic has a reputation for it's jpg's having a slightly green tint something - but to be honest I don't really know how big of a deal this is. My s95's colors aren't universally perfect either.

m43rds, mirrorless - they've tried to say that they have near-dslr autofocus speeds, but - they don't. Actually, the lx5 beats them from all the reviews I've seen and the few in-person comparisons I've done.

The upcoming Olympus claims to have greatly improved autofocus speeds, so if you're interested in m43rds I'd suggest waiting to see how it actually fairs in the real world. The large bodied 4/3rds cameras have shown that dslr-level autofocus speeds can be done, but it hasn't made it into the micro bodies yet.

[snip]

PaulRivers said:

As it is right now, I don't like the NEX series. It has a dslr-sized sensor - but because the best low light lens you can get for it is f2.8, it's still more than a stop behind a dslr, and on-par about with a m43rds which you can get an f1.7 for.

Click to expand...

Just to put the record straight, there are f1.4 (Leica) and f0.95 (Voigtlander) lenses in M4/3 mount, plus all the fast lenses that you can use with an adapter.

--
Chris R

Chris R-UK said:

[snip]

Chris R-UK said:

As it is right now, I don't like the NEX series. It has a dslr-sized sensor - but because the best low light lens you can get for it is f2.8, it's still more than a stop behind a dslr, and on-par about with a m43rds which you can get an f1.7 for.

Click to expand...

Just to put the record straight, there are f1.4 (Leica) and f0.95 (Voigtlander) lenses in M4/3 mount, plus all the fast lenses that you can use with an adapter.

--
Chris R

Click to expand...

I'm not following you - the NEX isn't a 4/3rds camera, so a m4/3rds mount...won't work on it, right?

For the NEX, once you add an adapter and a dslr lens, I don't personally know if that would work (if you say it would I assume it would) but at that point you've got enough extra stuff you're back to the size of a dslr...

PaulRivers said:

Chris R-UK said:

[snip]

PaulRivers said:

As it is right now, I don't like the NEX series. It has a dslr-sized sensor - but because the best low light lens you can get for it is f2.8, it's still more than a stop behind a dslr, and on-par about with a m43rds which you can get an f1.7 for.

Click to expand...

Just to put the record straight, there are f1.4 (Leica) and f0.95 (Voigtlander) lenses in M4/3 mount, plus all the fast lenses that you can use with an adapter.

--
Chris R

Click to expand...

I'm not following you - the NEX isn't a 4/3rds camera, so a m4/3rds mount...won't work on it, right?

For the NEX, once you add an adapter and a dslr lens, I don't personally know if that would work (if you say it would I assume it would) but at that point you've got enough extra stuff you're back to the size of a dslr...

Click to expand...

Apologies if I misunderstood you, but I read the last clause of your first post above to imply that there was nothing faster than f1.7 available on M4/3.
--
Chris R

Yeah, I noticed this when I was looking. Not really able to throw that in your pocket .

Now, I am willing to compromise, but I got rid of the D40 because of the bulk. Not wanting to head back in that direction.

It's looking like an LX5 or S95?
--
-Dwain

Make sure to also give the Samsung EX1 a fair shake.

dtmoody said:

Thanks Chris!

You know, I considered the S95. But thought I would adventure into the world of Four-Thirds. Was intrigued by the Sony NEX series. The only thing that stops me is the Lens. Which, I probably could live with. I gather I would have to use one to see how comfortable I felt with it. Any advantages other than ZOOM over the compacts listed below?

...But have been bouncing back and forth between the S95, LX5 and XZ-1...
Exactly the three I have had my eyes on! lol
--
-Dwain
http://www.pbase.com/dtmoody

Click to expand...

PaulRivers said:

For the NEX, once you add an adapter and a dslr lens, I don't personally know if that would work (if you say it would I assume it would) but at that point you've got enough extra stuff you're back to the size of a dslr...

Click to expand...

You can use a DSLR lense adapter, yes, and the result is pretty bulky. But you can also use a rangefinder lense adapter, and the result is not nearly as bulky. It's a combination I'm very tempted by, but I'm so happy with my X100 I'll stick with that for now.

Jesper

Those are the exact three I was considering. However, I really like the new Oly-E P3.

Whats everyones take on the LX5, XZ1 and S95? Or should I wait for real-world tests of the Oly? By then, there is always something else "new" out though lol

--
-Dwain

the Oly, with a prime lens though. That would fit my needs photographically, but not quite pocketable, but...

--
-Dwain