Cannon may be getting in on the game

Canon Hints at mirrorless, here is a portion of the news. I think we all new this was going to happen at some point. Mirrorless cameras are the way to go, thats why we buy them.

Canon's camera group lead Masaya Maeda hinted in an interview Tuesday that his company was at least investigating, if not making, a mirrorless interchangeable lens camera. The Japanese firm was "considering the technical aspects" of such a jump. There would be an "interesting product" with small dimensions next year, Maeda told Reuters, although he didn't say if that would be an interchangeable model.

Read more:

http://www.electronista.com/articles/11/07/05/canon.exec.says.mirrorless.cam.in.consideration/

lefkop said:

Canon Hints at mirrorless, here is a portion of the news. I think we all new this was going to happen at some point. Mirrorless cameras are the way to go, thats why we buy them.

Canon's camera group lead Masaya Maeda hinted in an interview Tuesday that his company was at least investigating, if not making, a mirrorless interchangeable lens camera. The Japanese firm was "considering the technical aspects" of such a jump. There would be an "interesting product" with small dimensions next year, Maeda told Reuters, although he didn't say if that would be an interchangeable model.

Click to expand...

. . . My guess is that they'll come out with some half-hearted attempt to deflect this mirrorless problem by making a G12 style body with a larger sensor and a fixed small aperture zoom. You read it here first. They do not want to rob from their own DSLR sales and this would grab some dissatisfied P&S users along with maybe even some DSLR users who also want a more capable compact as a 2nd camera. It might work for them at least for awhile because of the value and acceptance of their name among their current users and with the buying public.

When Canon and Nikon get in the game, watch out.

Also, history is repeating itself: similar to SLRs, 43 had the smallest sensor on the market... with mirrorless, m43 will once again have the smallest sensor on the market. Pana/Oly should have adopted the APSc sensor when they developed m43... they had a good run, but, how long can it last.

lefkop said:

Canon Hints at mirrorless, here is a portion of the news. I think we all new this was going to happen at some point. Mirrorless cameras are the way to go, thats why we buy them.

Canon's camera group lead Masaya Maeda hinted in an interview Tuesday that his company was at least investigating, if not making, a mirrorless interchangeable lens camera. The Japanese firm was "considering the technical aspects" of such a jump. There would be an "interesting product" with small dimensions next year, Maeda told Reuters, although he didn't say if that would be an interchangeable model.

Read more:

http://www.electronista.com/articles/11/07/05/canon.exec.says.mirrorless.cam.in.consideration/

Click to expand...

Tim in upstate NY said:

lefkop said:

Canon Hints at mirrorless, here is a portion of the news. I think we all new this was going to happen at some point. Mirrorless cameras are the way to go, thats why we buy them.

Canon's camera group lead Masaya Maeda hinted in an interview Tuesday that his company was at least investigating, if not making, a mirrorless interchangeable lens camera. The Japanese firm was "considering the technical aspects" of such a jump. There would be an "interesting product" with small dimensions next year, Maeda told Reuters, although he didn't say if that would be an interchangeable model.

Click to expand...

. . . My guess is that they'll come out with some half-hearted attempt to deflect this mirrorless problem by making a G12 style body with a larger sensor and a fixed small aperture zoom. You read it here first. They do not want to rob from their own DSLR sales and this would grab some dissatisfied P&S users along with maybe even some DSLR users who also want a more capable compact as a 2nd camera. It might work for them at least for awhile because of the value and acceptance of their name among their current users and with the buying public.

Click to expand...

Well, a G12 style body with a larger sensor, OVF (as it is today, small but for emergencies when it is hard to use the LCD) and a small system of interchangable lenses would be a formidable competitor. The form factor is just right IMO.
--
http://dslr-video.com/blogmag/

I think it's in the interests of both Canon and Nikon to drop vague hints that they may develop a mirrorless system, in the hope it may put people off investing in the current mirrorless systems.

Canon and Nikon have been selling loads of APS-C slrs for years, yet the majority of the lenses in their lens ranges are aimed primarily at the 35mm professional cameras. I am doubtful that, even if they developed a mirrorless camera, they would produce many new lens designs for it. They also have the problem that, if it was any good, it would compete with their APS-C slrs. Panasonic is in the position of not having any slrs in its range, thus it develops cameras like the GH2 and G3 and will presumably continue to try to improve AF speed and other specifications.

So what, exactly, would we expect Canon to bring to the party at this late stage? Could it be a larger range of lenses than the mft system or a better sensor than the one in the NEX?
If they have the killer product, why wait before releasing it?

PerL said:

Tim in upstate NY said:

lefkop said:

Canon Hints at mirrorless, here is a portion of the news. I think we all new this was going to happen at some point. Mirrorless cameras are the way to go, thats why we buy them.

Canon's camera group lead Masaya Maeda hinted in an interview Tuesday that his company was at least investigating, if not making, a mirrorless interchangeable lens camera. The Japanese firm was "considering the technical aspects" of such a jump. There would be an "interesting product" with small dimensions next year, Maeda told Reuters, although he didn't say if that would be an interchangeable model.

Click to expand...

. . . My guess is that they'll come out with some half-hearted attempt to deflect this mirrorless problem by making a G12 style body with a larger sensor and a fixed small aperture zoom. You read it here first. They do not want to rob from their own DSLR sales and this would grab some dissatisfied P&S users along with maybe even some DSLR users who also want a more capable compact as a 2nd camera. It might work for them at least for awhile because of the value and acceptance of their name among their current users and with the buying public.

Click to expand...

Well, a G12 style body with a larger sensor, OVF (as it is today, small but for emergencies when it is hard to use the LCD) and a small system of interchangable lenses would be a formidable competitor. The form factor is just right IMO.

Click to expand...

. . . But I'm saying that they don't want a lens system to go with this camera and that it will have a FIXED small aperture zoom which won't be too large even though the sensor is much larger than the current one in the G12. My only real question is whether they'll make that sensor themselves or farm it out to another source.

Tim in upstate NY said:

PerL said:

Tim in upstate NY said:

lefkop said:

Canon Hints at mirrorless, here is a portion of the news. I think we all new this was going to happen at some point. Mirrorless cameras are the way to go, thats why we buy them.

Canon's camera group lead Masaya Maeda hinted in an interview Tuesday that his company was at least investigating, if not making, a mirrorless interchangeable lens camera. The Japanese firm was "considering the technical aspects" of such a jump. There would be an "interesting product" with small dimensions next year, Maeda told Reuters, although he didn't say if that would be an interchangeable model.

Click to expand...

. . . My guess is that they'll come out with some half-hearted attempt to deflect this mirrorless problem by making a G12 style body with a larger sensor and a fixed small aperture zoom. You read it here first. They do not want to rob from their own DSLR sales and this would grab some dissatisfied P&S users along with maybe even some DSLR users who also want a more capable compact as a 2nd camera. It might work for them at least for awhile because of the value and acceptance of their name among their current users and with the buying public.

Click to expand...

Well, a G12 style body with a larger sensor, OVF (as it is today, small but for emergencies when it is hard to use the LCD) and a small system of interchangable lenses would be a formidable competitor. The form factor is just right IMO.

Click to expand...

. . . But I'm saying that they don't want a lens system to go with this camera and that it will have a FIXED small aperture zoom which won't be too large even though the sensor is much larger than the current one in the G12. My only real question is whether they'll make that sensor themselves or farm it out to another source.

Click to expand...

-- On the contrary if they were to release a small body camera like one of the m43 cameras that can also take the canon EOS lens. Canon might really eat lot of m43 system's lunch, because there are lot of people that are currently traveling on both Canon and a m43 boat.

--

• Vishnu

The rumor is that Nikon will be going with an even smaller sensor (2.5 crop). We'll see what Canon does but it could be a smaller sensor as well. The problem with APS-C is that the lenses are too large, negating much of the compactness of a mirrorless system.

Jogger said:

Also, history is repeating itself: similar to SLRs, 43 had the smallest sensor on the market... with mirrorless, m43 will once again have the smallest sensor on the market. Pana/Oly should have adopted the APSc sensor when they developed m43... they had a good run, but, how long can it last.

lefkop said:

Canon Hints at mirrorless, here is a portion of the news. I think we all new this was going to happen at some point. Mirrorless cameras are the way to go, thats why we buy them.

Canon's camera group lead Masaya Maeda hinted in an interview Tuesday that his company was at least investigating, if not making, a mirrorless interchangeable lens camera. The Japanese firm was "considering the technical aspects" of such a jump. There would be an "interesting product" with small dimensions next year, Maeda told Reuters, although he didn't say if that would be an interchangeable model.

Read more:

http://www.electronista.com/articles/11/07/05/canon.exec.says.mirrorless.cam.in.consideration/

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

They are not going to have a big sensor mirroless because they dont want to shoot their feet.M 4]3 is the ideal size, but some people don't get it.
river

APS lenses will ALWAYS be larger than m43 lens. They also have a smaller crop factor meaning their larger lenses won't have the reach of m43 lenses.

We have already hit a point where the average P&S shooter can't tell the difference between a T3i image and a G3 image, so that argument can be thrown out the window.

You also have the issue that it takes YEARS to develop new lenses. Sony is taking over a year to release a 1 new lens for the NEX system. Most of Canon and Nikon lens designs are all for larger FF lenses.

The only thing to fear is name recognition, but that may go against them too. They are known for large larger DSLRs. Everyone I know thinks Nikon makes lousy small cameras.

Jogger said:

Also, history is repeating itself: similar to SLRs, 43 had the smallest sensor on the market... with mirrorless, m43 will once again have the smallest sensor on the market. Pana/Oly should have adopted the APSc sensor when they developed m43... they had a good run, but, how long can it last.

lefkop said:

Canon Hints at mirrorless, here is a portion of the news. I think we all new this was going to happen at some point. Mirrorless cameras are the way to go, thats why we buy them.

Canon's camera group lead Masaya Maeda hinted in an interview Tuesday that his company was at least investigating, if not making, a mirrorless interchangeable lens camera. The Japanese firm was "considering the technical aspects" of such a jump. There would be an "interesting product" with small dimensions next year, Maeda told Reuters, although he didn't say if that would be an interchangeable model.

Read more:

http://www.electronista.com/articles/11/07/05/canon.exec.says.mirrorless.cam.in.consideration/

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I heard that argument many times before and it could be true. Otoh: it is better to rob from your own sales than someone else doing it to you.....

It is not that simple. The Oly 43 cams were not nearly small enough to be a P&S upgrade cam. They were smallDSRLs. They were also much less diversified, did not get support from Panaleica (not like now). Oly was on its own and Panny delivered the sensor for them, with their own halfhearted attempts (L1 for instance).

Now things have changed. Te liveview, the videoperformance and now the AF system has been better than anything DSLR has to offer (AF coming close, though not good enough for actionshooting everstill). EVF has been revolutionised.

We have two brands delivering a wide range of cams in really a very short timeframe. G3 and Gh2 seem to have bridged the gap with APS-c sensors, even though this is not necessary nor is this bridge truely complete. K-5 and D7000 sensors to me still seem better. But many reviewers already say it is very close or on par with those. Not much in it. The situation has changed drastically.

In the end you still coud be right and C&N could still outcompete P and O. Who knows. But for the moment, the m43s camera's seem to be really popular and the evolution is even so rapid that some buyers, most of all GF2 buyers are on the virge of dissapointment because of the GF3...

I'll buy a m43 cam (a second one) without any reservation, after reading Michael Reichmanns review on it. After that we'll see.

Only larger sensor cam I would be interested in would probably be another somewhat peculair sized sensor mirrorless cam: and APS-h...If it ever comes.

SHood said:

The problem with APS-C is that the lenses are too large, negating much of the compactness of a mirrorless system.

Click to expand...

Take a look at the bodies, too.

The D3100, D5100 and D7000 are big, heavy and bulky. The marginally better APSC image quality over a GH2 is NOT worth the size and weight penalty that one pays every time you pick one up.

They both are in comfortably dominating position, they can't even make current models (both cams and lenses) fast enough to meet demands.

If they make mirrorless cameras, they will cannibalize their own best-selling entry level models. And bosses just won't allow it.

Success is their own enemy.

I think the only reason m43 isn't a mega hit is the Price. but once they're able to mass produce, price will come down.

--
^ ^

Just Shoot !

wish1510 said:

Tim in upstate NY said:

. . . But I'm saying that they don't want a lens system to go with this camera and that it will have a FIXED small aperture zoom which won't be too large even though the sensor is much larger than the current one in the G12. My only real question is whether they'll make that sensor themselves or farm it out to another source.

Click to expand...

-- On the contrary if they were to release a small body camera like one of the m43 cameras that can also take the canon EOS lens. Canon might really eat lot of m43 system's lunch, because there are lot of people that are currently traveling on both Canon and a m43 boat.

Click to expand...

Canon EOS lenses will focus too slowly, assuming CDAF is being used. If you want to make substantial sales with a mirrorless camera, you need dedicated lenses.

--
john carson

Canon and, to an even greater extent, Nikon both worship at the alter of lens backwards compatibility. Nikon will hold on to the last vestiges of the Eisenhower era lens mount for as long as it can. It's what Canon and Nikon do and it's what their customers expect.

As long as all the camera companies were building full size SLRs, clinging to old mounts and/or old mount geometry has served them well.

But mirrorless is a true fork in the road for the big boys.

Trying to use the old mount is pretty pointless and would be seen as pointless. If you can't build a new system around compact lenses, why bother with a new system at all? If they try to make a system using the old mounts, it will be seen as a half-hearted attempt to save market share.

If they want to SERIOUSLY get into the mirorless market, they will be forced to develop truly news systems and mounts. But that means that one of the fundamental pillars of their camera philosophy will have to be sacrificed: the multi-generational lens mount.

Of course Canon and Nikon can develop new mirrorless systems and provide formidable competition. But they will no longer have the built-in advantage of immmediately being compatible with millions of lenses produced over several decades...and the millions of people that have those lenses. Canon and Nikon will have to start building new systems and a new customer base.

Tim in upstate NY said:

. . . But I'm saying that they don't want a lens system to go with this camera and that it will have a FIXED small aperture zoom which won't be too large even though the sensor is much larger than the current one in the G12. My only real question is whether they'll make that sensor themselves or farm it out to another source.

Click to expand...

To keep such a camera small would require the fixed zoom lens to be very very slow. My guess is that would not sell very well. To make the zoom faster would require the lens to be larger and that too would turn many people off. Keep in mind may people want that zoom lens to be a superzoom 10x or greater.

To reach the largest possible market would require an interchangeable lens camera.

They could do a fixed prime lens ala Fuji X100, but again, the fixed prime appeals to a rather small segment of buyers.

My money is on an interchangeable lens camera.

--

The greatest of mankind's criminals are those who delude themselves into thinking they have done 'the right thing.'

• Rayna Butler

wish1510 said:

Tim in upstate NY said:

PerL said:

Tim in upstate NY said:

lefkop said:

Canon Hints at mirrorless, here is a portion of the news. I think we all new this was going to happen at some point. Mirrorless cameras are the way to go, thats why we buy them.

Canon's camera group lead Masaya Maeda hinted in an interview Tuesday that his company was at least investigating, if not making, a mirrorless interchangeable lens camera. The Japanese firm was "considering the technical aspects" of such a jump. There would be an "interesting product" with small dimensions next year, Maeda told Reuters, although he didn't say if that would be an interchangeable model.

Click to expand...

. . . My guess is that they'll come out with some half-hearted attempt to deflect this mirrorless problem by making a G12 style body with a larger sensor and a fixed small aperture zoom. You read it here first. They do not want to rob from their own DSLR sales and this would grab some dissatisfied P&S users along with maybe even some DSLR users who also want a more capable compact as a 2nd camera. It might work for them at least for awhile because of the value and acceptance of their name among their current users and with the buying public.

Click to expand...

Well, a G12 style body with a larger sensor, OVF (as it is today, small but for emergencies when it is hard to use the LCD) and a small system of interchangable lenses would be a formidable competitor. The form factor is just right IMO.

Click to expand...

. . . But I'm saying that they don't want a lens system to go with this camera and that it will have a FIXED small aperture zoom which won't be too large even though the sensor is much larger than the current one in the G12. My only real question is whether they'll make that sensor themselves or farm it out to another source.

Click to expand...

-- On the contrary if they were to release a small body camera like one of the m43 cameras that can also take the canon EOS lens. Canon might really eat lot of m43 system's lunch, because there are lot of people that are currently traveling on both Canon and a m43 boat.

Click to expand...

. . . I think you've got it wrong. Canon is a dominant market leader in both P&S and DSLR sales and the one thing they don't want to do is to start 'eating the lunch' of their own products. A fixed lens large sensor G12 camera could snuggle in between the two categories that they currently do so well in and would actually hurt m4/3 and the NEX to some extent, at least enough to slow down the mirrorless jugernaut for a little while. In fact, they might even be willing to sacrifice soime of the G12's marketshare this way so long as they can also grab some of the buyers who might have gone with mirrorless ILC's.

. . . There have been other fixed lens large sensor compacts from Sigma and more recently Fuji but those cameras are expensive and have prime lenses that don't appeal to most buyers. What Canon might do differently is what I've suggested, mount this G12 successor with a fixed small aperture zoom and then price it competitively and also do what Canon does better than anyone. Get thousands on the store shelves within a few days after the official announcement.

Brent Gair said:

If they want to SERIOUSLY get into the mirorless market, they will be forced to develop truly news systems and mounts. But that means that one of the fundamental pillars of their camera philosophy will have to be sacrificed: the multi-generational lens mount.

Click to expand...

If they go with an APSc mount, there is no reason why you cant adapt their APSc or FF lenses. It would be ungainly, but, its certainly makes sense for them to do it.

I use the Sony NEX5 and adapt Nikon FF lenses.. i would love to have full AF and aperture control compaticbility.

Tim in upstate NY said:

lefkop said:

Canon Hints at mirrorless, here is a portion of the news. I think we all new this was going to happen at some point. Mirrorless cameras are the way to go, thats why we buy them.

Canon's camera group lead Masaya Maeda hinted in an interview Tuesday that his company was at least investigating, if not making, a mirrorless interchangeable lens camera. The Japanese firm was "considering the technical aspects" of such a jump. There would be an "interesting product" with small dimensions next year, Maeda told Reuters, although he didn't say if that would be an interchangeable model.

Click to expand...

. . . My guess is that they'll come out with some half-hearted attempt to deflect this mirrorless problem by making a G12 style body with a larger sensor and a fixed small aperture zoom. You read it here first.

Click to expand...

No, they read it first in my posts on nearly every thread like this I've participated in.

Needless to say, I agree. Again, there's a difference between what the market needs and what solution will be offered to them. Every CSC manufacturer except Fuji has made a bet on an ILC solution. I doubt Canon will do the same, and I can't really question the wisdom of that decision.

--
Sam Bennett
http://www.swiftbennett.com
http://www.flickr.com/sambennett/