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New attitude or have customers always been this way?

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Chancelynn2002 said:
http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/evg/2473282995.html
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When I was a kid, most weddings my parents took me to had bands. Three or four people, who worked for years honing their skills with instruments.

By the time I graduated college, my friends' weddings typically had DJs. One person, and a lot less time to master the craft. And cheaper.

Customers didn't put a value on live music. The DJ had a bigger selection and real charting bands.

Customers don't put as much value in traditional wedding photography any more. A full time pro with honed skills isn't perceived as being worth the asking price. Times are tough, budgets are less in proportion to income, and the average length of marriages is down compared to a generation ago. The value of traditional wedding work has tanked.

--
Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.

Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com
 
I think it has more to do with the sort of people who troll for services on Craig's list.

They seem to think they really will get professional level service for GWAC prices.

I think Joe is right more people think photography is chep and easy. The camera companies do nothing to dispel that notion.
--
Member of The Pet Rock Owners and Breeders Association
Boarding and Training at Reasonable Rates
Photons by the bag.
Gravitons no longer shipped outside US or Canada
-----.....------

if I mock you, it may be well deserved.
 
Chancelynn2002 said:
http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/evg/2473282995.html
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The "attitude" of customers is as diverse as...well, as diverse as personalities, or faces, or walks of life. You simply can't lump all "customers" into a single group based on a single Craiglist posting, or even multiple postings. That's ridiculous. It's like saying "all Asians" or "all black people" or "all blond people" or "all Europeans" are a certain way. Totally ridiculous. I've had clients where money was never an issue, and I've had clients where money was very tight.
 
T3 said:
You simply can't lump all "customers" into a single group based on a single Craiglist posting, or even multiple postings.
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I know, that wasn't my intention. This is just the tip of the iceberg of what I see daily. I spend time looking for employment (non-photographic) and to see what free stuff is being thrown out - but I also search to see the level of 'photographic services' and what kind of people are asking for such.

I'm in the process of developing my own pet photography business and am not a long-time pro - so I simply wondered if what I'm seeing is a new trend, or if it's simply being advertised for all to see.
 
No, it is not a new trend, there have always been those looking for "bargain" rates. I am a member of a Camera Club, and an ex-President. When in office I would occasionally get a call from someone asking if there was a member who would take pictures at a wedding. A small wedding, nothing fancy, etc., etc. No member would take the assignment because it just was not worth the time and the trouble. Particularly the trouble. People looking for an inexpensive photographer still expect professional results. Plus wedding shots have to please so many people no member wanted to take on a task that produced little money and a lot of bother.

The same is still true, people call the Camera Club wanting someone to shoot a "little wedding" for a "little money." Members still say no thanks.

It is not a majority of the people but there are some who want the work done on the cheap. Actually not as many as one might think but they are out there. Anyone who agrees to shoot a wedding for very little money is just establishing their base rate. My advice, which is worth what you paid for it, is do not do it.
--
Shoot lots of pictures, always fill the frame
 
$200 pay for transportation and then hours of work with thousands of dollars of equipment, for people that sound super picky and want you to be extra creative and inventive and not use any standard poses and then giving them the rights so they can go elsewhere and pay someone else for their prints and photoshop work? Uh, no thanks. They can get one of their friends with a "good camera" to go and do it and be mad at them instead.
 
Joseph S Wisniewski said:
When I was a kid, most weddings my parents took me to had bands. Three or four people, who worked for years honing their skills with instruments.

By the time I graduated college, my friends' weddings typically had DJs. One person, and a lot less time to master the craft. And cheaper.

Customers didn't put a value on live music. The DJ had a bigger selection and real charting bands.

Customers don't put as much value in traditional wedding photography any more. A full time pro with honed skills isn't perceived as being worth the asking price. Times are tough, budgets are less in proportion to income, and the average length of marriages is down compared to a generation ago. The value of traditional wedding work has tanked.
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It also depends on where the priorities of the bride and groom (mostly the bride) are.

Most are more concerned with the wedding dress, makeup and hairdo, the location, the flowers, the food, the veggie platter, the seat covers, the decorations and other things.

And although most brides do expect to have the best of everything else, they typically don't feel that the longer lasting memories from their wedding event are worth the price that is asked by the working professional (ie.- photographer, DJ or band) who does provide the kind of product that they really want.

Yet they are willing to pay the premium prices for all of those other things that I mentioned above.

--
J. D.
Colorado


  • "If your insurance company tells you that you don't need a lawyer . . . hire a lawyer!"
 
I used to take photos at friends weddings as a wedding present. I made sure they knew I was NOT the professional photographer. Many said my photos were the ones they liked the most. But it wasn't because my photos were better; they wern't. The pro generally took the posed images. The were all perfect photos. But I knew the bride and/or groom and many of their friends. I would get the shot of the bride adjusting the flower girls head piece or the best man toasting the groom with a shot just before the vows. And I had fun too. I would make up a little snap shot book and give the couple contact sheets and the negatives. They could make enlargements as they wished. I used a Leica CL with 28mm (Rokor), 40mm (Lietz) and 90mm (Leitz) and a Metz flash. I would ask in advance and most of the time the couple opted for me to take B&W. But I learned I never wanted to get into the business as a pro.
--
Reid Shay
http://www.sawatchpub.com
 
Chancelynn2002 said:
T3 said:
You simply can't lump all "customers" into a single group based on a single Craiglist posting, or even multiple postings.
Click to expand...
I know, that wasn't my intention. This is just the tip of the iceberg of what I see daily. I spend time looking for employment (non-photographic) and to see what free stuff is being thrown out - but I also search to see the level of 'photographic services' and what kind of people are asking for such.

I'm in the process of developing my own pet photography business and am not a long-time pro - so I simply wondered if what I'm seeing is a new trend, or if it's simply being advertised for all to see.
Click to expand...
The problem is that the kind of results you find greatly depend on where you look! Obviously, if you are looking on Craigslist, you're going to get a low level of clientelle! As the saying goes, you can't fly like an eagle if you hang around turkeys. Likewise, if you're looking for high end business, you aren't going to find it on Craiglist because higher end clients aren't looking for photographers on Craiglist! Hahaha! I would never go looking for clients on Craigslist because you just end up with low-end, cheapskate clients that aren't worth the trouble. It's absolutely foolish to think that Craigslist listings are representative of all wedding and photography clients.
 
Right, got it. Again not my intention to blithely say that Craigslist is representative of all markets. I simply wondered if people are getting more stupid, or if we're just seeing it more because of the internet. But never mind.
 
Chancelynn2002 said:
I simply wondered if people are getting more stupid, or if we're just seeing it more because of the internet. But never mind.
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Actually, we are seeing it more these days for two reasons:

1) The bad economy is making everyone have the need to make a few extra bucks . . .

2) Everyone with their shiny new entry-level DSLR's are now suddenly 'pros'!

--
J. D.
Colorado


  • "If your insurance company tells you that you don't need a lawyer . . . hire a lawyer!"
 
... to do a job that is going to take 2 or 2-1/2 days, with the help of his apprentice - he's going to use $200 or $300 worth of pipe & fittings (or cable & ties etc). He tells you the price for the job is going to be $5000 to $10000 (or even more). I wonder what you'd say? (I have a fair idea).

One of the problems with some professional photographers is that they think they're Vincent van Gogh and want to charge accordingly. A lot of people think that professional wedding photographers are a bit of a rip off, but in the past were prepared to cough up the money to preserve and protect their "memories" of their special day. These people now see quite good images being produced by complete novices with the latest digital gear. They can't see the value for money "gap" between what a talented amateur can do and a professional. I really think it's that simple. It's a matter of technology removing the mystique from photography. On top of that, many professional photographers resort to what amounts to little more than kitsch in their attempt to deliver something "different" to what other photographers are delivering.

Or they do something "over the top". I recently saw a bride in flowing white dress pirouetting down a public street in the middle of Sydney with no less than six photographer/movie people recording her every action on still and video cameras, complete with sound and lighting. I swear one of them was a choreographer!!

There will always (hopefully) be those who will be prepared to spend the extra money to get the big photographic production for their special day, but there will be a growing number trying to cut down on the cost because they think they can.
--
Mike M. (emem)
http://www.veritasmea.com
 
Joseph S Wisniewski said:
Customers don't put as much value in traditional wedding photography any more. A full time pro with honed skills isn't perceived as being worth the asking price. Times are tough, budgets are less in proportion to income, and the average length of marriages is down compared to a generation ago. The value of traditional wedding work has tanked.
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Under those circumstances, I think they can do without. Harlan Ellison's rant about getting paid seems to apply here - if people don't think the job is worth money, they shouldn't be out trolling for amateurs to come do it on the cheap - although in that case, as in any other, the onus is on said amateurs not to strip the market away from pros. The happy customer doesn't know any better and shouldn't be blamed for reacting to the apparent change in photography's price and difficulty as they do (not to mention the economy, as mentioned).

Sidebar: I came across Ellison's video rant in connection with comics, which along with all professional art sees this problem from time to time - lots of people out there looking for help "developing" a concept with the bait of "a steady gig and a sure thing" dangled out there later, when all they really need is just enough content to flesh out their terrible beanbag action figure gimmick superhero enough that they can shop it around to sell the rights.
 
Chancelynn2002 said:
http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/evg/2473282995.html
Click to expand...
Is the good $-£ exchange rate just flattering the figures, have I underestimated the amount of work that goes on before & after the shoot, or is $39,000 pro rata not a good deal? [1] These guys appear to value my time more than my employer; $300 is the equivalent of nearly four days work (take-home pay) for me, so can certainly see how it would appeal to the keen amateur.

[1] Two full days for the job: Assuming the photographer is local we can allocate the full day to travel, recce of the location, setting up lighting & taking the photos. Give another full day for the post-processing of the pictures. Maybe it's 2 1/2 days & $31,200
 
hesbehindyou said:
Is the good $-£ exchange rate just flattering the figures, have I underestimated the amount of work that goes on before & after the shoot, or is $39,000 pro rata not a good deal? [1] These guys appear to value my time more than my employer; $300 is the equivalent of nearly four days work (take-home pay) for me, so can certainly see how it would appeal to the keen amateur.

[1] Two full days for the job: Assuming the photographer is local we can allocate the full day to travel, recce of the location, setting up lighting & taking the photos. Give another full day for the post-processing of the pictures. Maybe it's 2 1/2 days & $31,200
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Forgot to add, if it's a weekend wedding this clearly sucks for a Wedding Pro!
 
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