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Pentax marketing - a lot of answers about Q

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Roland Karlsson said:
Raphael Mabo wrote:
But - it says two things.

1. Only three mounts are going to be considered in the near future: 645D, K-mount and Q-mount.

2. There will be no mirror less K-mount in the near future.

1+2 gives that there will be no mirror less APS-C in the near future.
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Nope, don't think so

What is wrong with a mirrorless the size of a Kx, minus the battery grip and prism height. make it water resistant.

WHO SAYS IT HAS TO BE THE SIZE OF A MICO 4/3 CAMERA !

wll
 
Please define "major mistake". You declare this without knowing the marketing strategy, image quality, the photojournalism, street photography, digi-scoping, discrete travel....opportunities offered by this system? You must make millions in the stock market with your ability to forecast the success and failure of business ventues!
 
wll said:
Roland Karlsson said:
Raphael Mabo wrote:
But - it says two things.

1. Only three mounts are going to be considered in the near future: 645D, K-mount and Q-mount.

2. There will be no mirror less K-mount in the near future.

1+2 gives that there will be no mirror less APS-C in the near future.
Click to expand...
Nope, don't think so

What is wrong with a mirrorless the size of a Kx, minus the battery grip and prism height. make it water resistant.

WHO SAYS IT HAS TO BE THE SIZE OF A MICO 4/3 CAMERA !
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I did buy my wife a Olympus E-PL2 for her birthday last week. I am now learning how to use it so I can teach her a few things. The camera is easy and fun to use. It produces very good photos. did find that the controls are a little too small and cramp. I kept hon pressing the video button by accident. Anyhow A sllightly larger camera where the controls are easier to use would be nicer. I think camera makers got carried away with making cameras as small as they can.

A K-r size mirrorless camera with a metal WR sealed body would be just about right. If you want smaller you can get the Q.

Dave
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It's funny how about three people have decided to shout at every opportunity about how this camera is so bad and will be a failure that will take Pentax down. We can't even have a meaningful discussion about the bloody thing. Anyway I guess I'll ignore these threads until there is something tangible to actually talk about, like pictures.
--
http://wkoopmans.ca/notebook/
 
mgm2 said:
Please define "major mistake". You declare this without knowing the marketing strategy, image quality, the photojournalism, street photography, digi-scoping, discrete travel....opportunities offered by this system? You must make millions in the stock market with your ability to forecast the success and failure of business ventues!
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Sarcasm do not become thee :P

My reasoning is like this. I believe the mirror less cameras will take over the prosumer market. DSLR will be found too bulky and unreliable. That will unfortunately be the death of optical view finders, but I think it will happen nevertheless, like it or not.

Canon and Nikon will take the entire DSLR market for some years until they also stop making DSLR. Sony will make whatever weird stuff they always like to make.

So - whatever mirror less Pentax is making in the next few years will be the only system they will ever make, except maybe for 645D. A toy camera and a Phase One.

EDIT: maybe they can always jump on the m43 band wagon. That might save Pentax.

And with regard to toy cameras - look whats become of Minox http://www.minox.com/index.php?id=4698&L=1 .

And yes - my crystal ball is working just fine :)

--
Roland

support http://www.openraw.org/
(Sleeping - so the need to support it is even higher)

X3F tools : http://www.proxel.se/x3f.html
 
Raphael Mabo said:
I know entry level DSLR uses that only prints standard prints or show images on Facebook, and only has two lenses (standard and tele zoom) and hardly knows what RAW is or what aperture is for... But they like the idea of interchangeable lenses.
Surely a Q would be fun and useful for them?

--
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I know Canon 5d MkII users and D300s users who shoot on full auto ;-)

It would be a very grave mistake to suggest all entry level DSLR users are point and shoot.

And even if they were the idea is to get "DSLR image quality" and you don't have a hope with the Q sensor.
 
MightyMike said:
I would defend the 5 years, look at the 2 photos from photokina 2006 you see they have actually been working on the idea of a micro mirrorless for at least 5 years. however in that time as technology and focus changes they do have to go back to the drawing board at times. This finished product is certainly not the original concept they imagined 5 years ago... so yes they adapted and adjusted the idea as the market changed and it might have been an on paper concept until the last year or 2 when they would've started making prototypes. So from initial idea to final release a lot can change and it can take a long time.
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Mike the market has moved on and we now have premium compacts with faster lenses and bigger sensors (well bigger than the Q's sensor)

It's a case of not looking at what is going on around them ala competition.

Fairly obvious that the sensor size isn't going to cut it or appeal at this price point.
MightyMike said:
Oh whats this??? long before micro 4/3rds ever was considered a mirrorless full sized K-mount mock-up
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But no product to buy!

They say if you can see the band wagon it's already too late ;-)
 
Don't get me wrong, i agree at that price point its not appealing, not that it was ever much appealing to me. I would go for an XZ-1 first before this but lets see where it goes and hope they can make it more appealing to prospective buyers. I remember paying over $900 for a 1/2.5" 5mp sensor in the FZ20, may not have been a great sensor but the lens was something special.
--
Mike from Canada

"I am not a great photographer! God is a great creator! All I do is capture His creation with the tools He has provided me."

'I like to think so far outside the box that it would require a telephoto lens just to see the box!' ~ 'My Quote :)'



http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?sort_order=views%20DESC&first_this_page=0&page_limit=180&&emailsearch=mighty_mike88%40hotmail.com&thumbnails=
 
DrugaRunda said:
two interesting bits for me... no AA filter
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most of small sensors cameras (incl cell phones) do not have AA filters - it costs money and they do not need it anyways w/ dark lenses... it is just not worth to market, because the target audience does not not know what it is anyways

--

 
exdeejjjaaaa said:
DrugaRunda said:
two interesting bits for me... no AA filter
Click to expand...
most of small sensors cameras (incl cell phones) do not have AA filters - it costs money and they do not need it anyways w/ dark lenses... it is just not worth to market, because the target audience does not not know what it is anyways
Click to expand...
Surely it more to-do with pixel density raising the point where ambiguous interpretation is no longer a concern.?

Typically with small sensors this point has already been reached so an AA filter is superfluous.
exdeejjjaaaa said:
--

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--
My PPG

http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/home#section=ARTIST&subSection=1471087&subSubSection=0&language=EN
My Photo Stream
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Sorry to crush your dreams but it won't happen at least in what I define as the "near future". Think about the fact that both K-5 and 645D are due for replacement in 2012. Could Pentax make also a "FF" camera in the same time? Sure it could! Will it happen? Of course not!

After the great success of 645D I see this range split into 2 cameras:

1) one with a smaller body designed for 44x33mm sensor (not necessarely the current one). This camera will preserve the iq advantage over the next generation of "FF" cameras and probably will cost 600K to 700K Yen (which in a year's time could be about the same 10K USD).

and

2) a larger sensor in the same body as 645D of today. This camera could be the first Pentax DMF designed to take on the major players of this market, would take advantage of the new D FA 645 lenses and will probably be over 1M Yen.

"Never" is such a drastic word but I don't see a K mount 36x24 mm camera in Pentax' future.

Radu
moving_comfort said:
.

Indeed, that link has some interesting info - like 1) the larger mount area around the sensor was only designed to accommodate the SR mechanism (line 19,) and 2) they have no plans to introduce a Q mount model with a larger sensor to fill that space gap (line 48).

Also interesting (maybe)... line 56 is far from 'no way, Jose!'

Question: Will you launch a full frame camera in the near future?
Answer: We do not have anything we could go in detail.

:)
.

--
Here are a few of my favorite things...
---> http://www.flickr.com/photos/95095968@N00/sets/72157626171532197/
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ropen said:
K5 and 645D are due for replacement in 2012
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Why would they replace the 645D ?

There just no way they are going to undertake such a huge task for a low demand product so soon. MF systems are very expensive to develop and you have to recoup that before you start throwing more money at R&D.

Why would the replace the K5 so soon ?

There is no reason to expect a K5 replacement before 2013 ( if then ). At the moment it's state of the art and it's unlikely to need a replacement next year as the nearest competition, the D7000, is of the same age. It's worth asking just how they could make a better model at that level - you can't design a replacement before you have something you need to add or correct.

--
StephenG
 
ropen said:
Sorry to crush your dreams but it won't happen at least in what I define as the "near future". Think about the fact that both K-5 and 645D are due for replacement in 2012. Could Pentax make also a "FF" camera in the same time? Sure it could! Will it happen? Of course not!
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I wasn't aware that the 645D was rumoured for replacement so soon.
ropen said:
After the great success of 645D I see this range split into 2 cameras:

1) one with a smaller body designed for 44x33mm sensor (not necessarely the current one). This camera will preserve the iq advantage over the next generation of "FF" cameras and probably will cost 600K to 700K Yen (which in a year's time could be about the same 10K USD).

and

2) a larger sensor in the same body as 645D of today. This camera could be the first Pentax DMF designed to take on the major players of this market, would take advantage of the new D FA 645 lenses and will probably be over 1M Yen.
Click to expand...
Interesting, but I just don't see that much development happening in that tier. Before the 645D, the worldwide MFD market was something like 500 units per month, IIRC.
ropen said:
"Never" is such a drastic word but I don't see a K mount 36x24 mm camera in Pentax' future.

Radu
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Ned B has hinted that the major roadblock to a Pentax FF is the lenses - that it's much harder and more expensive to spin up 4 or 5 new lenses basically from scratch than it is to get out a new FF body. They would need the lenses to shorten the ROI timeframe; profit on them is pretty high.

'Q' indicates to me that this new lens spinup just probably can't start any time soon, unless Hoya has invested more than I think in it's little imaging division... I might have to agree that FF is becoming more and more remote.

I'm still holding out hope, though.

--
Here are a few of my favorite things...
---> http://www.flickr.com/photos/95095968@N00/sets/72157626171532197/
 
What about unparalleled answer: FF mirror less K-mount camera?
 
sjgcit said:
Deleted1929 said:
K5 and 645D are due for replacement in 2012
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Why would they replace the 645D ?
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To compete with the new FF cameras that are rumored to be released later this year or early next year.
Deleted1929 said:
There just no way they are going to undertake such a huge task for a low demand product so soon. MF systems are very expensive to develop and you have to recoup that before you start throwing more money at R&D.
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Might not be that much R&D. Just a new sensor in the same body.
Deleted1929 said:
Why would the replace the K5 so soon ?

There is no reason to expect a K5 replacement before 2013 ( if then ). At the moment it's state of the art and it's unlikely to need a replacement next year as the nearest competition, the D7000, is of the same age. It's worth asking just how they could make a better model at that level - you can't design a replacement before you have something you need to add or correct.
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The K-10, K20, K7 and K-5 has been released about 14 to 16 months between each. With the K-5 being released in late December 2010 this will put the K-5 replacement being released in Spring 2011.

The K-5 is a good camera, I own two of them but there are ways to improve it.

Dave
--

 
DLBlack said:
The K-10, K20, K7 and K-5 has been released about 14 to 16 months between each. With the K-5 being released in late December 2010 this will put the K-5 replacement being released in Spring 2011.

The K-5 is a good camera, I own two of them but there are ways to improve it.
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Actually it was released in late October 2010 which puts the next replacement to be scheduled for Jan/Feb 2012 ... probably be announced in January and available in late February

--
Mike from Canada

"I am not a great photographer! God is a great creator! All I do is capture His creation with the tools He has provided me."

'I like to think so far outside the box that it would require a telephoto lens just to see the box!' ~ 'My Quote :)'



http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?sort_order=views%20DESC&first_this_page=0&page_limit=180&&emailsearch=mighty_mike88%40hotmail.com&thumbnails=
 
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