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717 or G3: A PERSONAL "quantitative survey”

  • Thread starter Thread starter Yang
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Ahhhh, my friend of wisdom speaks the words very well. :-)

Good to see you, again. :-)
Pondria said:
Yang,
I respect your work. However, I am really wondering if the
"quantitative survey" would help you much for the purchasing
decision. It seems that both cameras are very good. Whatever the
difference between them shouldn't really matter or should be purely
personal preference. I have a friend who takes just incredible
photos with his Canon 1D. Well, he also has a SONY 717. His shots
from 717 are sometimes just as good as the ones from 1D ;) Don't
analyze too much. Buy whatever your heart prefers. Then go out
shooting !
Click to expand...
--

Ulysses
Repository of Some of My Stuff
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=4291269101

I'm an uncle!!!

 
I've been away from STF for quite a while. So, is 717 the hottest kid on the block today ? I've seen some amazing shots from it.
Ulysses said:
Good to see you, again. :-)
Pondria said:
Yang,
I respect your work. However, I am really wondering if the
"quantitative survey" would help you much for the purchasing
decision. It seems that both cameras are very good. Whatever the
difference between them shouldn't really matter or should be purely
personal preference. I have a friend who takes just incredible
photos with his Canon 1D. Well, he also has a SONY 717. His shots
from 717 are sometimes just as good as the ones from 1D ;) Don't
analyze too much. Buy whatever your heart prefers. Then go out
shooting !
Click to expand...
--

Ulysses
Repository of Some of My Stuff
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=4291269101

I'm an uncle!!!

Click to expand...
--

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.sesee.com/Photo/Galleries/Galleries.asp
 
Shutter said:
Shutter. said:
Good luck with your PERSONAL choice Yang!
PS: Don't be influenced by anyone else's decision - particularly if
their forum name begins with a "U" :-)
Click to expand...
I can't imagine who else this might be. The only other U I think
about is about the most diplomatic person on this forum.

Unless by "U" you mean YOU!
Click to expand...
I didn't mean to raise anyone's hackles or to denegrate "the most diplomatic person on this forum." I have been following the ongoing 717 vs G3 dialogue between Ulysees and Yang with great interest and was only trying to tease a bit.

Its often difficult in postings to determine where people are coming from. I thought I had clarified my intent with the :-) at the end of my statement.
Cheers!
John
 
Whoops. Let me step in.

No damage done. I tried to add my own smiley, too. Oh well. In this text format, nobody understands anybody.

Again, no damage or harm done to the slightest degree.

Yang sure knows how to raise a racket, doesn't he?. :-))
John McMurdo said:
Its often difficult in postings to determine where people are
coming from. I thought I had clarified my intent with the :-) at
the end of my statement.
Click to expand...
--

Ulysses
Repository of Some of My Stuff
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=4291269101

I'm an uncle!!!

 
He touched on very sensitive topic.. = )

T
Ulysses said:
No damage done. I tried to add my own smiley, too. Oh well. In this
text format, nobody understands anybody.

Again, no damage or harm done to the slightest degree.

Yang sure knows how to raise a racket, doesn't he?. :-))
John McMurdo said:
Its often difficult in postings to determine where people are
coming from. I thought I had clarified my intent with the :-) at
the end of my statement.
Click to expand...
--

Ulysses
Repository of Some of My Stuff
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=4291269101

I'm an uncle!!!

Click to expand...
 
Shutter said:
Very analytical. What does it have to do with pictures? That's
all that matters in the end.
Click to expand...
As a serious hooby shooter with SLR rather than P&S background should know these are factors ( features/functions) that may influence the chance to shoot successfully in most different situations. We don't always shoot in same place, the same motive, under same lighting condition in our life.

Of cause, these are purely pesonal considerations. For intsance, I guess most 717 shooters seldom use EVF. But, for me it's an important factor, since I believe while using EVF (as I did in past 30 years), I may get much less ablique pictures than using LCD.

I must admit there were some non-photographic issue in my table like MS. But, most of them do have something to to with one's photographic activities.

Yang
http://www.fototime.com/inv/4E6EE4D1C7782B6
hp2541
 
thanks for your input!
technolawyer said:
Yang:

Based on an analysis of your comparision, the killer weakness of
the F717 in your opinion appears to be memory sticks! You give the
G3 (+2) for using compact flash and the F717 (-3) for using a
memory stick for a differance of (5) points. WOW, you must really
hate memory sticks! But I question whether media storage should be
by far the most important consideration in choosing a camera!
Click to expand...
I agree the difference might not as big as 5. But, it really annoys me: You se, I give 717's video ability a "2". But, if you don't take picture at all, you can only take a video sequence as long as 6 or 7 minutes with a 128 MB MS.
 
Yang said:
me: You se, I give 717's video ability a "2". But, if you don't
take picture at all, you can only take a video sequence as long as
6 or 7 minutes with a 128 MB MS.
Click to expand...
Really? What mode is that in? With my 707 I can take 90 minutes of video on a 128 meg MS. Its pretty pathetic quality, but it works. I'd rather take 6 or 7 minutes of high quality video than 90 minutes of crud. Is that a new 717 mode you're referring to?

Charles.
--
The other day I went to... no wait, that was someone else.
Sony 707 (Since Oct 14, 2002)
Canon S100 (Since Feb 2001)
http://homepage.mac.com/charlesclloyd
 
Thanks for your input!
LanceD said:
A
question I have in mind when I read this is: how would this post
benefit others since it's just for your needs? What's your point of
posting this?
Click to expand...
you may have experienced same things here on Sony Forum like me on Canon Talk: People ask for advice for choosing this or that camera. All possible questions have been asked, as ob each of them might be decisive. My "survey" shows an example, how to give their personal points a weight - a kind of priority for making decision based on their own needs in their photogrtaphic activities.

Yang
 
Yang -

As you know, the video feature is one of the most important to me, since I use it for recording video for friends and family that are scattered around the globe.

I use the MPEG EX mode rather than the MPEG HQX mode. This gives me video at 320x240 at a frame rate of around 8fps. I get recording times of over 23 minutes (23:39). But this is okay because I intend to usually edit my video later, and then save it as a much smaller .WMV file or other format. This allows for easier download and/or streaming to those intended to watch the video. I rarely use the MPEG HQX video unless I'm recording something very short and that will be stored to a CDR.
Yang said:
technolawyer said:
Yang:

Based on an analysis of your comparision, the killer weakness of
the F717 in your opinion appears to be memory sticks! You give the
G3 (+2) for using compact flash and the F717 (-3) for using a
memory stick for a differance of (5) points. WOW, you must really
hate memory sticks! But I question whether media storage should be
by far the most important consideration in choosing a camera!
Click to expand...
I agree the difference might not as big as 5. But, it really annoys
me: You se, I give 717's video ability a "2". But, if you don't
take picture at all, you can only take a video sequence as long as
6 or 7 minutes with a 128 MB MS.
Click to expand...
--

Ulysses
Repository of Some of My Stuff
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=4291269101

I'm an uncle!!!

 
Ulysses said:
I rarely use the
MPEG HQX video unless I'm recording something very short and that
will be stored to a CDR.
Click to expand...
actually, even MPEG HQX video is of too bad quality for me, but, better than nothing, since Iwon't buy a comcorder any more.
 
Yang said:
actually, even MPEG HQX video is of too bad quality for me, but,
better than nothing, since Iwon't buy a comcorder any more.
Click to expand...
Yes, it will get the job done, but at only around 15fps, it really is too jerky for "serious" video. Then again, this video isn't meant for "serious" video, but rather just for recording quick clips to send home to friends and family or to stream over the web.

Some of the best digicam video I've seen is from the S602Z. Very nice indeed at 30fps.

--

Ulysses
Repository of Some of My Stuff
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=4291269101

I'm an uncle!!!

 
SmokinMan said:
Yang said:
SmokinMan said:
Swivel Body
Click to expand...
G3's swivel CLD is more flexible
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
als you may have known, I've decided for thr F717 (just ordered one online)

yesterday, I shot with a G2 on a Xma's party and noticed the advantage of the swivel LCD again while shooting in portait format from the ground position. For this shooting position, the swivel body doesn't help at all, right?

So, I think I was right to give G3 one more point in this catagory.

F717 newbie, Yang
 
Hi Yang,

Yes I noticed you have ordered the F717.

Do you mean shooting from the ground pointing up 90 degree? 45 degree? or pointing straight gorward paralel to the ground like shooting closeup of stone or insect on the ground?

I find that shooting from ground position, the swivel body is very confortable pointing straight paralel to the ground to about 45 degree. You can see the LCD and easily access the control buttons on the 717 at these position.

More than that to 90 degree pointing up, yes you have to peep at the LCD but the control buttons still facing you. Meanwhile with swivel LCD like G2/G3/5700 all the buttons is facing the ground and impossible to access. I would rather peep at the LCD than have to flip the camera to change setting. The only thing the swivel LCD advantage I can think of is when you run into a wall you have to see the LCD from the side or self portrait where you have to see the LCD from the front. I hardly found the need for both of these positions.

I don't have any idea too before I got my 717 but since then I have grown to love the swivel body a lot that I will think twice to leave it. Unless Canon can come up with G4 with faster lens, bigger zoom with IS, fix lens barrel, bigger MP, then I will think about switching back to Canon He... he...

By the way, if you decided to keep the 717 and from my reading your post you like canon bluer color too like I am compared to 717 reddish/yellowish, I certainly want to hear your idea how to make image bluer from 717 come straight from the camera. I know it can be done with manual white balance tweek or maybe attaching B+W very light blue filter permanently on the 717 as a protection filter. I just found out that B+W has what they call color balance filter to eliminate yellowish/reddish image. You know the one that Film camera use at sunset and sunrise where the light is a bit reddish/yellowish. Let me know what you think. AT this stage I am very close to order the light blue filter from B+W, but the problem is B+W filter is not stocked here, so I cannot try it first before I buy.
Yang said:
SmokinMan said:
Yang said:
Member said:
Swivel Body
Click to expand...
G3's swivel CLD is more flexible
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
als you may have known, I've decided for thr F717 (just ordered one
online)

yesterday, I shot with a G2 on a Xma's party and noticed the
advantage of the swivel LCD again while shooting in portait format
from the ground position. For this shooting position, the swivel
body doesn't help at all, right?

So, I think I was right to give G3 one more point in this catagory.

F717 newbie, Yang
Click to expand...
--
SmokinMan



Sony DSC F717 (Ex S40)
Olympus IS-1 35mm Film Camera http://www.pbase.com/smokinman/
 
SmokinMan said:
Do you mean shooting from the ground pointing up 90 degree? 45
degree? or pointing straight gorward paralel to the ground like
shooting closeup of stone or insect on the ground?
Click to expand...
With "Portrait Position" I meant to hold the camera vertically. The swivel body cannot be turned in this direction. If you put the camera on the ground and shoot vertically 30 degree up with a F717, you cannot actually view the LCD very well.
 
You can see the LCD and access the buttons very well pointing up to 45 degree, providing you are on your knee. the 717 swivel about 80% up. even pointing at 90 degree up you can still access all the buttons easily, but you cannot see the LCD well without going down and peeking. With swivel LCD of G2/G3 you can see the LCD but not the control buttons at the back of the camera. While you can bend down to peek at the 717 LCD you cannot at all access the control buttons of the swivel LCD. Which one do you prefer?

If I may ask, what are you shooting with the camera on the ground and pointing up vertically? I really do not have any idea except shooting the ceiling or standing people staring down. But why on the ground? Can you put the camera 1 foot from the ground? Because if you can, the 717 definately has the edge.
Yang said:
SmokinMan said:
Do you mean shooting from the ground pointing up 90 degree? 45
degree? or pointing straight gorward paralel to the ground like
shooting closeup of stone or insect on the ground?
Click to expand...
With "Portrait Position" I meant to hold the camera vertically. The
swivel body cannot be turned in this direction. If you put the
camera on the ground and shoot vertically 30 degree up with a F717,
you cannot actually view the LCD very well.
Click to expand...
--
SmokinMan



Sony DSC F717 (Ex S40)
Olympus IS-1 35mm Film Camera http://www.pbase.com/smokinman/
 
Don't think that is too much of a problem. Shot one photo like that lately (potrait orientation, camera on the floor, barrel aiming up~60 degree.) Bit odd position but can do with the swivel LCD facing fully to the top, holding the camera away from the body at arm lenght, squatting down position and framming using LCD. The only problem is that with the framming. Initially the image doesn't move like what you want it to (due to the different orientation of the LCD and the CCD), but after 10-15 seconds, it was OK.
--
Lenz
 
Congatulations Yang! It'll take you 8-10 good "sessions" with your new 717 to realize how good this camera is! I did try all of them: Oly, Canon, Minoltas, and the best(my personal)feeling I've got with my 707. I would definetely sacrifice at some point maybe noisier images, with the rest what 717 can accomplish instead...Lucky shootings Yang!
halievski
Yang said:
SmokinMan said:
Yang said:
Member said:
Swivel Body
Click to expand...
G3's swivel CLD is more flexible
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
als you may have known, I've decided for thr F717 (just ordered one
online)

yesterday, I shot with a G2 on a Xma's party and noticed the
advantage of the swivel LCD again while shooting in portait format
from the ground position. For this shooting position, the swivel
body doesn't help at all, right?

So, I think I was right to give G3 one more point in this catagory.

F717 newbie, Yang
Click to expand...
 
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