Zeiss ~ When!

Wherever there is air there is humidity, humidity do not neccesary come from water entering the lens, but from humidity in the air condensing. Anyone who have used their equpment in the cold winter air have seen this happening when you get back inside. Humidity is no dissaster, as long as you store youre equipment in a dry place, and make shure it dries up properly after exposing it for humidity.

--
André F
 
I would be happy with a Leica DG Summilux 25mm F1.4 on the NEX. The sample images on dpreview are quite impressive.
 
I haven't seen the price of the Panasonic/Leica before.
List Price: $1,099.95.

That buys a used Leica M lens, with Nex adapter. It has quite likely a better resale value.
:(
 
GFrensen: Yes, but will a "pro" do ever a job with only a Nex5...Nex5 is not designed, build and market at the "pro"

Disagree, professionals are doing jobs with only a Nex 5, speaking with 100% certainty on that score.

A professional who is aware of the Nex definitely wouldn't care how the camera is marketed, and probably wouldn't care who the camera is designed for, when deciding whether or not to use it.

And if the Nex is small, light, and works well in the field, who cares if the thing was "built for" a professional. In terms of redundant backup in the field, am far better off in total system reliability with multiple light weight camera bodies, if they're no more burden than one "pro" body. The far more likely failure scenario than spontaneous failure of a "non-pro-built" body is losing track of a camera in the field (tends to only happen when you're working without an assistant), dropping/banging it, battery failure, etc etc.

Once firmware version 3 came out, with the ability to assign custom white balance to convenient soft keys, have found the Nex 5 to be a completely professional camera.

Hmm, my "only thing missing from the Nex that has professional impact" is the lack of built-in radio remote control or (almost as good) a cable release terminal or at least a rear infrared sensor. Part of what's missing about the Nex remote is also the unavailability of all drive modes with remote. I.e. would be using a remote release for every single tripod photo if the release worked from anywhere for every drive mode.

Now my professional work almost never involves external flash control, which the Nex 5 is not well-equipped for. But have no doubt that with a bit of research and thought that (for me completely unimportant) "shortcoming" could be remedied.

And more importantly for purposes of argument, every camera is lacking some features.

I.e. my view cameras are not hand-holdable, my medium format cameras don't have a histogram display, my Nex doesn't have a larger sensor or weather sealing, big deal. Because none of them have every conceivable professional feature for every conceivable gig, doesn't make every every one of them "unprofessional".

GFrensen: My point was that there is nothing about the rumored NEX 7 to make it more professional (in the modern definination that Canon, etc use)

Disagree here, a better sensor (which is surely on the boards for a "Nex 7") is always way more professional than a worse sensor.

[Nex 7 not more professional...] than the NEX 5 except that it may have an EVF.

Hope Nex 7 doesn't have an EVF if it makes the camera more than 30 grams heavier, or makes it more fragile or expensive or bigger. Have completely adjusted to using a 30-gram clip-on plastic magnifier on the Nex viewfinder, it is superb.

Gfrensen: I think the main thing that makes the camera a "pro" camera is NOT weathersealing, it is NOT functionality, it is SERVICE. You have to have a professional service scheme for professionals. As long as you don't have that, many "Pro"photographers will not buy your camera.

Maybe many "pro" photographers still think about servicing their digital bodies, but in the Nex era my concern about servicing has dropped to zero. I care as much about servicing my cheap Nex body as I care about servicing my smartphone. It is a throwaway expense of doing business if it fails, and that failure will be a welcome excuse to replace it with the latest version. Really, have never in my life serviced a cellphone or piece of photo equipment, it's always been destroyed, lost, stolen, sold, traded, or obsolete and moved to backup or discard status before it's merited servicing.

Gfrensen: I don't think Sony will provide in this way, so no Sony camera is realy a "pro" camera, although many pro's will use it.

Am offering the contrasting opinion that once cameras are cheap/disposable and small enough to pack along extra bodies in a professional kit, it is now obsolete and irrelevant to describe a camera as "professional". Just as there is no need for me to describe or decide if my cellphones or pencils are "professional". Even though I may use and depend on those objects on some given job.

Put another way, there's still such a thing from my point of view as a "professional" camera outfit . For example no matter what the technology, a professional kit has all the things one might reasonably need on a particular job, with backups . E.g. by my definition any truly professional kit is carried in at least 2 separate bags. But in the Nex era there is no longer a need for any particular object in that kit to have been designed for professionals, if the Nex feature set is adequate.

And will finally note that the Nex has so few moving parts that it has proven completely resistant to ill effects from several 5-foot falls to ceramic floors. Meaning that there's little difference between the ruggedness that professionals need and the ruggedness that ordinary consumer products also benefit from.

Designing a fragile, failure-prone "consumer" Nex or cellphone could be as problematic in terms of returns, and cost Sony as much or more bad publicity, as designing a fragile, failure-prone "professional" DSLR would be for Nikon or Canon.
 
Finally, a sensible post on the issue of "professional" equipment. If something is portable and cheap, you can simply get and carry a backup. However, we've been conditioned to think that a pro or even advanced amateur camera has to be expensive, huge, "weather-sealed," and practically armor-plated, although those things just make the camera more expensive and harder to replace when it does fall or get lost/stolen/dropped in the water, etc.
 
I never intended to say that the Nex will not be used by a professional, my intention was the question what makes a camera a professional camera? And I think there is no simple answer to that question.

There are so many professionals out there, like Studio photographers, photo correspondents, wildlife photographers, landscape photographers, photo "art" photographers, product photographers etc. All wanting somthing different from their cameras.

So I think one thing that makes it "professional" is the service. Maybe the choice of lenses and accessries etc. Maybe the build quality, maybe, as you stated, the price. But I think most pros who invest in a camera system wants some kind of service when a lens fails, or when a brand new camera is going bad, they want a replacement camera as soon as poswsible, in the mean time using ttheir spare camera.

The only thing I know is that the Nex was not designed with the pro in minde, nor was it aimed at that target, and that makes it a consumer camera, not a pro.

That said, a good pro can take stunning pictures with the Nex, it is good!
 
I haven't seen the price of the Panasonic/Leica before.
List Price: $1,099.95.
And that is for a m43 lens, that have to cover a smaller chip. I think the price is way to high for such a lens, as good as it may be. I think that price would be to high for the Zeiss too!
That buys a used Leica M lens, with Nex adapter. It has quite likely a better resale value.
:(
Don't know qbout that, it is a AF lens, and that makes reselling a little easier (inless M43 will die, then you won't get a penny for it....
 
http://www.adorama.com/IPC2514M.html?utm_source=rflaid64498&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_campaign=Other&utm_term=Other

Seems like a great deal for a fast focusing F/1.4 Leica lens.
I haven't seen the price of the Panasonic/Leica before.
List Price: $1,099.95.
And that is for a m43 lens, that have to cover a smaller chip. I think the price is way to high for such a lens, as good as it may be. I think that price would be to high for the Zeiss too!
Luckily it is 1/2 that price. It give Sony an incentive to keep the Zeiss price down in the future to compete. We all like low prices!
 
Good posting , Russel, valid points .

I'm using view cameras for work, so a lack of features is not really an issue for me ;) .

I'd just like to add, there are a number of things about the Nex that are not necessarily lacking for pro use, but rather made for a different clientele .

Little things, like insufficient remote control, continious AF, just one or two button options missing to fully control main features , etc ..

Imho, it's just a tad different from comparing a digital back + view camera to a Hasselblad, or an FF Canon, all of which have been designed for a certain kind of professional use, unlike the Nex - and it shows .
 
http://www.adorama.com/IPC2514M.html?utm_source=rflaid64498&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_campaign=Other&utm_term=Other

Seems like a great deal for a fast focusing F/1.4 Leica lens.
I haven't seen the price of the Panasonic/Leica before.
List Price: $1,099.95.
And that is for a m43 lens, that have to cover a smaller chip. I think the price is way to high for such a lens, as good as it may be. I think that price would be to high for the Zeiss too!
Luckily it is 1/2 that price. It give Sony an incentive to keep the Zeiss price down in the future to compete. We all like low prices!
Wow let's hope the Son/Zeiss lens will be in that range.... That is a better price for a good prime lens....
 
Gfrensen:I never intended to say that the Nex will not be used by a professional

Of course you didn't say that, in contrast, you specifically mentioned that a professional might use a Nex, even if the Nex "isn't professional." Your post was well written and clear on that point.

GFrensen:, my intention was the question what makes a camera a professional camera? And I think there is no simple answer to that question.

Agreed, and was not thinking your post was wrong-headed or time-wasting. Instead found your comments thought-provoking, and pleasantly generative of argument.

Gfrensen: There are so many professionals out there, like Studio photographers, photo correspondents, wildlife photographers, landscape photographers, photo "art" photographers, product photographers etc. All wanting somthing different from their cameras.

Yes, of course. Just like there are many dermatologists who don't care about having the finest stethoscope.

GFrensen: So I think one thing that makes it "professional" is the service. Maybe the choice of lenses and accessries etc. Maybe the build quality, maybe, as you stated, the price. But I think most pros who invest in a camera system wants some kind of service when a lens fails, or when a brand new camera is going bad, they want a replacement camera as soon as poswsible, in the mean time using ttheir spare camera.

Well here's where we split, and can't swear that you're wrong. It's just so easy to carry two or more identical less-than-300-gram Nex spare bodies, that can't imagine what professional would sweat much whether or not they can get prompt servicing on their Nex...that I consider to be a throw-awayable expense when it fails, like my latest chipmunk cellphone.

The only thing I know is that the Nex was not designed with the pro in minde, nor was it aimed at that target, and that makes it a consumer camera, not a pro.

Agreed that it wasn't designed for pros, or aimed for pros. But some day, how relevant or useful will the label of a camera as "pro" or not be, when even the least professional camera turns out better images than the most professional camera of another prior generation?

In my opinion that's already happened with the Nex. My old medium format bodies are worse than unprofessional now, they're just burdensome and irrelevant for all but the biggest enlargements. Look what you can get out of a Nex these days (in low ISO conditions, if you don't need tilt and shift or easy external flash hookups).
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1042&message=38697643

Grfrensen: That said, a good pro can take stunning pictures with the Nex, it is good!

Which I would agree does not prove that the Nex is a professional camera. My basic argument is that there's no need to even have such a concept as a professional camera (or professional cellphone or pencil) when there's lightweight redundancy in a professional photo kit, and the "non-professional" cameras or cellphones or pencils do everything a pro wants anyway.
 
My basic argument is that there's no need to even have such a concept as a professional camera (or professional cellphone or pencil) when there's lightweight redundancy in a professional photo kit, and the "non-professional" cameras or cellphones or pencils do everything a pro wants anyway.
Sounds good - only we are not quite there yet .

The Nex, as an example, isn't designed smartly enough to be used as a pro tool, and doesn't yet have the file quality to be a contender.
For gadgets, the technology is still lightyears away .

It's nonsense to state a great photographer can take a great picture with anything .

Of course he can, but if he did, he'd be doing it for a certain effect, or because he dropped his Canon . ;)
 
I was curious because I have seen ads like this one. I have never seen an image made with this kind of adapter, and how it works with the smaller image circle.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Micro-4-3-M43-Sony-Nex-Adaptor-NEX5-NEX-5-NEX3-NEX-3-/110652784340?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c36b7ed4#ht_1673wt_962
I haven't seen the price of the Panasonic/Leica before.
List Price: $1,099.95.
And that is for a m43 lens, that have to cover a smaller chip. I think the price is way to high for such a lens, as good as it may be. I think that price would be to high for the Zeiss too!
That buys a used Leica M lens, with Nex adapter. It has quite likely a better resale value.
:(
Don't know qbout that, it is a AF lens, and that makes reselling a little easier (inless M43 will die, then you won't get a penny for it....
 
Franzel: The Nex, as an example, isn't designed smartly enough to be used as a pro tool,

Sure, it's just the smallest, lightest APS-C camera in the world, and close to one of the best APS-C sensors in the world. That is the most stable thing possible on my tripod's ball head, giving me the fastest-handling picture taking machine (since I never need to lock down my ball head with such a featherweight rig) with super sharp results.

And it's the first camera in the world that's nearly universally compatible with almost all portable camera lenses, allowing me to hand-pick dream optics from all manufacturers, to make a specialized rig for each assignment. Other than that it's designed pretty dumbly.

Franzel: and doesn't yet have the file quality to be a contender.

Yeah, what professional would want a camera that can only take unedited pictures like the one at the bottom of this post...

Franzel: For gadgets, the technology is still lightyears away .
Maybe by 2020 the Nex line will be developed enough to take nice pictures.

Franzel: It's nonsense to state a great photographer can take a great picture with anything .

Of course you forgot to point out where someone in this thread said any such thing.

Franzel: Of course he can, but if he did, he'd be doing it for a certain effect, or because he dropped his Canon.

Of course if you have a disagreement with this post, you'll include a much-better-quality-at-normal-print-size picture you took with your professional Canon.

Didn't drop my monstrous Canon, just gave it away, because it's overweight and obsolete now. (Tripod handling is too slow, because it's so unnecessarily heavy that normal ball head friction isn't enough to hold it in place.)

 
Oh my, I hate those quoting battles on this forum ... ;)
Franzel: The Nex, as an example, isn't designed smartly enough to be used as a pro tool,

(since I never need to lock down my ball head with such a featherweight rig) with super sharp results.
Good for you, I think there is a tiny bit of shutter shake, and as for tripods and heads - horses for courses .
And it's the first camera in the world that's nearly universally compatible with almost all portable camera lenses, allowing me to hand-pick dream optics from all manufacturers, to make a specialized rig for each assignment. Other than that it's designed pretty dumbly.
Let's face it, it is not designed for legacy lenses, it just happens to work with them, in a somewhat clumsy way .
Still cool, but a nerd thing (and I'm guilty ).

Also, I want to see one single proper review of MF lenses on the Nex that show how good those are - I went through a whole case of Minolta MF lenses, and they don't seem to work well for digital (mainly CA) .
Franzel: and doesn't yet have the file quality to be a contender.

Yeah, what professional would want a camera that can only take unedited pictures like the one at the bottom of this post...
No offense, but this is no decent quality .
Franzel: For gadgets, the technology is still lightyears away .
Maybe by 2020 the Nex line will be developed enough to take nice pictures.
Actually, I expect a possible Nex-7 with higher resolution and better (shadow) performance above ISO 400 to be almost there, maybe even this year .
Franzel: It's nonsense to state a great photographer can take a great picture with anything .

Of course you forgot to point out where someone in this thread said any such thing.
Noone did, just the thing I expect people to say, or think . ;)
Franzel: Of course he can, but if he did, he'd be doing it for a certain effect, or because he dropped his Canon.

Of course if you have a disagreement with this post, you'll include a much-better-quality-at-normal-print-size picture you took with your professional Canon.
Nope, I won't . And what does a print have to do with file quality ?
Give a file to your retoucher, and when he gets mad at you, ...

It's all in the potential of a file, at least for me, I don't much care for what an unprocessed image looks like .
Didn't drop my monstrous Canon, just gave it away, because it's overweight and obsolete now. (Tripod handling is too slow, because it's so unnecessarily heavy that normal ball head friction isn't enough to hold it in place.)
Again, horses for courses .
I won't replace my Sinar with the Nex anytime soon . ;)
 
If you are using a Sinar either with 4x5 film or a digital back, of course the NEX can't compete on image quality. Neither can the latest FF Canikon or Sony. I see the NEX as the modern version of a classic pre-digital Leica, which was not a studio camera either, but gave good IQ in a compact package, or the Olympus OM-1, which gave pro IQ and SLR advantages in a small package.

The late great mountain landscape photographer Galen Rowell often used amateur Nikon bodies like the FM and even the cheap generic Cosina-made FM-10, simply because they were lighter and more portable, and produced equal IQ if one used the same good Nikon lenses.

If you can manage to lug around a gargantuan "pro" camera, more power to you. But the NEX is so much more portable, and with the best adapted lenses, will give IQ equivalent to anything but state-of-the-art FF DSLRs.
 
Russell: Yeah, what professional would want a camera that can only take unedited pictures like the one at the bottom of this post...
Franzel: No offense, but this is no decent quality .

So my Nex sample image is not only significantly worse at typical display sizes than one from a professional Canon camera, it's not even "decent quality".

And the Nex is designed dumbly. And it only works with non-Nex lenses by coincidence. And the Nex handles non-eMount lenses much more clumsily than Canon pro DSLRs handle non-Canon mount lenses. Hmm, guess you forget to mention which non-Canon-mount lenses that Canon pro DSLRs work automatically with?

And yYou must have forgotten to distinguish yourself from a troll, by including in your post the sample Canon image that you took.

The Canon sample showing us that professional camera's significantly better image quality than my Nex photo, at a normal display size (what I called "print size" in my previous post). By the way I would guess that a normal display size would be no more than a double page magazine or wedding album spread, say 11x17 inches (about 30x45cm) or less.

I'll be happy to do the work of posting the Canon and Nex photos side by side for easy comparison.
 

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