How to rescue Pentax

...at all the business advice posters in this forum have for Hoya/Pentax. I wonder, though, how many of these experts have ever run a business?

Translation: Hoya/Pentax seem to be doing just fine on their own. They are smart enough to realize that they can't be all things to all people...
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Well, I run a business, but I sure wouldn't try to tell a camera manufacturer how to go about its business.

One thing I do notice in these off-the-wall benefit offerings is that what they want added is something they think is great. Market research, or in this case a camera that actually did the testing, usually proves the one offering the idea is wrong.

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Charlie Self
http://www.charlieselfonline.com
 
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Jim King - Retired Colormonger - Suburban Detroit, Michigan, USA; GMT -4h (EDT)
Pentaxian for over 50 years.





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A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
  • Sir Winston Churchill
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The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.
  • Albert Einstein
 
Google "645D."
So what with 645D? Yes it is a digital medium format camera, but can you use it for everything? how about sport photography? does it have fast AF? faster FPS? lens availability?
Actually even such well regarded bodies like the 7D, 5dmkII, 1Ds IV & the 1D IV series all have pretty glaring weaknesses requiring the pros which use them for a living to pretty much own at least one copy of all three.

My point is there really is no such animal as a "pro" camera let alone a perfect "pro" camera. The idea of a "pro" camera is pure marketing hyperbole. It's about the pro support infrastructure that makes the "pro" bodies worth the price. And it's there where Pentax doesn't do a wonderful job, hell they pretty much don't do squat...ask a couple of the regulars over at PF one of whom was quite resoundingly told to go-pound-sand over some SDM failures. And he was always extolling the virtues of Pentax in some HUGE magazines and ad campaigns.

And wasn't it just this year, or mid-2010, where Pentax announced hiring a new PR/marketing firm to rework the company images? Hmmm...seems like the protectionist no-built-here internal management has pretty much killed any hope on that front as well.

As for a MF format camera, it's not a format where you need a lot of the features found in a 35mm body. It's more of a thoughtful system which might also be why you see so many amazing images produced on MF systems. I bet if we all put more thought into our shots every single person would see a marked improvement in our images as well. But 35mm simply makes it to easy to apply the PnS habits or use spray-n-pray mode...though Pentax is not exactly well know for being able to "spray" all that quickly!! ;)

But apparently HoyaTax does not see the need to place any value on having a loyal and active core of pro photographers out here promoting their gear. I know there are a LOT of pros shooting Pentax but you really don't see them as being all that friendly and happy for the most part...I guess a company gets back what they invest.
 
My point is there really is no such animal as a "pro" camera let alone a perfect "pro" camera. The idea of a "pro" camera is pure marketing hyperbole. It's about the pro support infrastructure that makes the "pro" bodies worth the price.
Your last sentence here is no doubt correct, but I must disagree with your first and second statements. It is easy to disprove by simply comparing cameras made by the same manufacture. I was shooting a wedding with a Canon 50D and was experiencing some slow focusing issues (imagine that). The other photographer I was shooting with had a 5D. He let me use it to see the difference. There was a big difference! While Canon intentionally withholds some of its technology on its non-pro models, it is clearly in evidence with its pro models. Unfortunately, Pentax has yet to achieve the same technological prowess of Canon or Nikon. It doesn't mean one can't take fantastic pictures with Pentax, but if you are in a "got to have" situation that is the case in some pro photography genres, you will be upping your risk using current Pentax cameras.

As far as investing in marketing goes, marketing may obscure for a time, but it can not cover up glaring weaknesses in a product forever. Before Pentax revs up a pro marketing campaign, I think they should invest in improving their technology so they can attract more professionals. I find it difficult to believe that it would be that hard for Pentax to create professional cameras if they so desired.
 
I still have issues with the Pentax AF. It is not a speed issue as much as accuracy. I get the feeling that the AF point is so large it is hard to get really accurate focus. I shot an event with bad lighting where the AF would grab the microphone almost every time. That was the highest contrast object in the scene. When the microphone was not close to the subjects face it focused great. As soon as the performer put the microphone close to their mouth it would grab the microphone. The center AF point was not even close to the microphone.

Pentax needs to reduce the size of their AF sensors, add more of them and spread them out more. With LR3 and Topaz DeNoise I can clean up a K-7 high ISO file pretty well, but I cant't fix AF in post.
I have held this belief pretty much since getting my K20D. It was a true shock to get used to the AF function coming from my Canon gear. I really struggled with getting consistent focus and felt the suggestions to use MF and to understand the AF points were very large were both missing the concept.

I have no idea what Pentax is using in terms of a focus sub-system but it's clearly not optimal. I eventually took the time to map the relative position of my center AF point and it has helped a lot.

I like to use large apertures which really requires a highly accurate focusing subsystem. I don't feel we are bring given very refined system with which to work.

I'm completely fine with the speed of the AF system, it works well for me. But your point seems dead on at the heart of a big reason many who depend on the camera for their income won't pick Pentax. I suspect many would if that were not the case simply for the great primes.
 
My point is there really is no such animal as a "pro" camera let alone a perfect "pro" camera. The idea of a "pro" camera is pure marketing hyperbole. It's about the pro support infrastructure that makes the "pro" bodies worth the price.
Your last sentence here is no doubt correct, but I must disagree with your first and second statements. It is easy to disprove by simply comparing cameras made by the same manufacture. I was shooting a wedding with a Canon 50D and was experiencing some slow focusing issues (imagine that). The other photographer I was shooting with had a 5D. He let me use it to see the difference. There was a big difference! While Canon intentionally withholds some of its technology on its non-pro models, it is clearly in evidence with its pro models. Unfortunately, Pentax has yet to achieve the same technological prowess of Canon or Nikon. It doesn't mean one can't take fantastic pictures with Pentax, but if you are in a "got to have" situation that is the case in some pro photography genres, you will be upping your risk using current Pentax cameras.
Thanks though either I did not express myself clearly (nothing new there :D) or you are reading something into my comment. I was not in any way suggesting Pentax bodies were not very capable, in fact I now earn a tidy living using only Pentax taking on only a 2-3 jobs a year. But I was pointing out that nobody makes a one-size fits all body. Even "pros" need to have multiple bodies to cover all bases. And any camera a "pro" uses is indeed a "pro" body...to label cameras as pro or not-pro does a disservice to the very capable modern bodies any of which are fantastic, even the Sigma bodies can deliver when used properly.

You have to read it all in the context for the comment to which I was responding I think. But then again I might have written it poorly...sorry if I did.
 
My point is there really is no such animal as a "pro" camera let alone a perfect "pro" camera. The idea of a "pro" camera is pure marketing hyperbole. It's about the pro support infrastructure that makes the "pro" bodies worth the price.
Your last sentence here is no doubt correct, but I must disagree with your first and second statements. It is easy to disprove by simply comparing cameras made by the same manufacture. I was shooting a wedding with a Canon 50D and was experiencing some slow focusing issues (imagine that). The other photographer I was shooting with had a 5D. He let me use it to see the difference. There was a big difference! While Canon intentionally withholds some of its technology on its non-pro models, it is clearly in evidence with its pro models. Unfortunately, Pentax has yet to achieve the same technological prowess of Canon or Nikon. It doesn't mean one can't take fantastic pictures with Pentax, but if you are in a "got to have" situation that is the case in some pro photography genres, you will be upping your risk using current Pentax cameras.
Thanks though either I did not express myself clearly (nothing new there :D) or you are reading something into my comment. I was not in any way suggesting Pentax bodies were not very capable, in fact I now earn a tidy living using only Pentax taking on only a 2-3 jobs a year. But I was pointing out that nobody makes a one-size fits all body. Even "pros" need to have multiple bodies to cover all bases. And any camera a "pro" uses is indeed a "pro" body...to label cameras as pro or not-pro does a disservice to the very capable modern bodies any of which are fantastic, even the Sigma bodies can deliver when used properly.

You have to read it all in the context for the comment to which I was responding I think. But then again I might have written it poorly...sorry if I did.
I think our communication problem is that you are thinking more all inclusively, where I am thinking specifically. I agree, that one doesn't need a "pro" body to shoot professionally, particularly in some situations. And I understand that even pros use various bodies, not all of which are designated "pro." But I also believe there are some situations (fast moving action, low lighting, etc.) in which some cameras clearly are more advantageous to use than others. These cameras tend to be the top of the line, pro cameras put out by Canon and Nikon. In my limited professional experience in wedding photography in which I have used Pentax K20D, Pentax K5, Canon 40D & 50D, and Canon Mark 5D, I can testify, that it is clearly easier to use the 5D, and even the 50D to some extent, than the Pentax cameras that I own and am most familiar with. So I am defining pro cameras as those which are the most capable.

Now you may take issue with the description "easier to use," and say so what? Just get over it. Okay, that's what I have done so far. But when you can't produce "the shot," due to your equipments limitations, then you start thinking.
 
As a Canon DSLR user, there are two reasons I'd sell my gear and move to Pentax: budget-conscious weather-resistant lenses and super-small primes. But neither has the bodies to take full advantage of them, i.e., an entry-level body with weather-sealing or a low-profile DSLR body.
There was the K-200D, a weathersealed consumer-grade body. But when it was available, there were no consumer-grade weathersealed lenses. It didn't sell well at the time, but today used copies sell for a lot for their age because people want the smallest, lightest weathersealed body they can find, and now there are small, light, inexpensive weathersealed lenses to put on it.

But the K-200D was not that much smaller than the K-7 & K-5. To get an idea of the least amount of size and weight ever added by thorough weathersealing, compare the K-200D to the K-100D. A weathersealed K-r might be a bit smaller than the K-200D, but still noticeably bigger than a K-r.

I do think they should have a consumer-grade weathersealed body -- basically a weathersealed K-r. I think they're walking away from a lot of sales by not having one (now that they have consumer-grade weathersealed lenses to go with it).
If Pentax had a K-r body with weather-sealing, they could market it to every photographer who wants to hike and take pictures in inclement weather but doesn't want to pay pro-level costs (Canon L lenses or K-5 body) and wants to travel light.
Many people who want that eventually go with a used K-200D.
And if Pentax had a DSLR that looked more like the old K-1000 or were even more radical and had a rangefinder body like the Fuji X100, they could attract a ton of photographers who want the low-profile, street-shooter package.
The K-1000 was not a compact camera. You might be thinking of the ME, MX, etc.
A tiny prime on a K-5 body just looks weird, but if you could lose the grip and streamline the rest, you might have something interesting.
I guess it depends on whether you consider a camera a tool to use, or a work of industrial art to look at.
How to rescue Pentax
Rescue Pentax from what? Even Thom Hogan hasn't predicted Pentax's demise in over a year. And he LOVES to predict Pentax's demise.

Greg

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Brand loyalty is a character flaw.
 
Winder wrote:

I get the feeling that the AF point is so large it is hard to get really accurate focus.
I have held this belief pretty much since getting my K20D.
I mapped the center AF point (circle really) and in playing around with that circle found the top portion was the easiest to use when I trying to get focus on tightly grouped subjects. Tilting the focus plane down seems to leave just the top in the focus circle to be in focus with some faster, or longer lenses, and makes the circle more into a point or smaller AF area than using the flat AF circle when the plane is parallel to the subject.

If that isn't a good explanation, picture of a coin being pressed up flat against a target smaller than the coin on the wall. You can be pretty sloppy putting the coin on the target/wall. A little up, a little down, right left it doesn't matter for the area of the coin. Now tilt the coin, and the only portion that can touch the target is the leading edge of the coin and you have to a lot less sloppy to hit the target with that edge.

I suppose you could use any tilt: right, left, top, or bottom, but top seems easiest for me to do. Once I have AF confrontation, I flatten the plane as I wait for SR to lock, or if SR is already locked, I flatten and shoot.

To map the center AF point I just used a coin on a piece of blank paper. I approached the coin from the top, bottom, left and right sides and sort of mentally noted the dimensions. Takes a couple of minutes.

Thank you
Russell
 
They need a full frame body to hold on to the semi-pros and serious amateur photographers they have. Some of them have left and migrated to Canon and Nikon. Instead it is one APS-C body after another, and they try to be profitable by charging more for their camera bodies and wishing that their fans don't mind paying more. That is the same strategy that Apple had in the 1990's: more money for less computer. Apple sales tanked, and they nearly went bankrupt until Jobs stumbled upon the i-tunes/i-pod/i-phone/-pad series of products, none of which was traditional Mac computers, but were hugely profitable and saved Apple. To save Pentax, they need to either find something similar to what Jobs found or build better cameras than the competition at competitive prices.

They are doing well with the 645D, because it is cheaper than comparable models from other makers and because it is a pretty competitive camera in terms of performance, image quality and features. They need to apply the same strategy to their 35mm lineup. After all, if they had charged more for the 645D than the competition, they would have been up to their eyebrows in unsold 645D cameras.
As a Canon DSLR user, there are two reasons I'd sell my gear and move to Pentax: budget-conscious weather-resistant lenses and super-small primes. But neither has the bodies to take full advantage of them, i.e., an entry-level body with weather-sealing or a low-profile DSLR body.

If Pentax had a K-r body with weather-sealing, they could market it to every photographer who wants to hike and take pictures in inclement weather but doesn't want to pay pro-level costs (Canon L lenses or K-5 body) and wants to travel light.

And if Pentax had a DSLR that looked more like the old K-1000 or were even more radical and had a rangefinder body like the Fuji X100, they could attract a ton of photographers who want the low-profile, street-shooter package. A tiny prime on a K-5 body just looks weird, but if you could lose the grip and streamline the rest, you might have something interesting.
 
Apple sales tanked, and they nearly went bankrupt until Jobs stumbled upon the i-tunes/i-pod/i-phone/-pad series of products, none of which was traditional Mac computers, but were hugely profitable and saved Apple.
Apple's turnaround actually started with the iMac three years before the iPod.
 
Is Sony's FF a big success or a good example?

Olympus and Panasonic are a little bigger than Pentax, why do not they go for FF?

What's the chance for Pentax to do better than those camera makers to compete with Canikons in FF making and SELLING?

It's a chicken and egg logic that will not resolve itself.
They need a full frame body to hold on to the semi-pros and serious amateur photographers they have. Some of them have left and migrated to Canon and Nikon. Instead it is one APS-C body after another, and they try to be profitable by charging more for their camera bodies and wishing that their fans don't mind paying more. That is the same strategy that Apple had in the 1990's: more money for less computer. Apple sales tanked, and they nearly went bankrupt until Jobs stumbled upon the i-tunes/i-pod/i-phone/-pad series of products, none of which was traditional Mac computers, but were hugely profitable and saved Apple. To save Pentax, they need to either find something similar to what Jobs found or build better cameras than the competition at competitive prices.
 
Is Sony's FF a big success or a good example?
Yeah it is a success in showing that Sony are truly capable in making FF camera, it will be more successful if their FF camera can perform as good as D700 in term of low light noise and maybe add video capabilities like 5d mark ii but sadly, they are a little stingy on features, maybe on their next FF camera they gonna fix this.
Olympus and Panasonic are a little bigger than Pentax, why do not they go for FF?
Because they don't have an Auto focus legacy lens to begin with and to start FF for them is to start designing FF lens all over again. Pentax, Nikon, Canon and Sony has already have FF autofocus lens.
What's the chance for Pentax to do better than those camera makers to compete with Canikons in FF making and SELLING?
100%, see if pentax can make FF in k5 body with weathersealing , SR and can perform like D700 in term of low noixe, have video capabilites and sell under $2000, it will sells like crazy and also make a FF dslr based on ME super body, manual focus to compete with leica M9 and sell it under $2000, I believe it will be a huge success.
It's a chicken and egg logic that will not resolve itself.
No its not, pentax is a chicken that can lay egg, now they have to lay egg instead of doing nothing.
They need a full frame body to hold on to the semi-pros and serious amateur photographers they have. Some of them have left and migrated to Canon and Nikon. Instead it is one APS-C body after another, and they try to be profitable by charging more for their camera bodies and wishing that their fans don't mind paying more. That is the same strategy that Apple had in the 1990's: more money for less computer. Apple sales tanked, and they nearly went bankrupt until Jobs stumbled upon the i-tunes/i-pod/i-phone/-pad series of products, none of which was traditional Mac computers, but were hugely profitable and saved Apple. To save Pentax, they need to either find something similar to what Jobs found or build better cameras than the competition at competitive prices.
 
If Pentax had a K-r body with weather-sealing, they could market it to every photographer who wants to hike and take pictures in inclement weather but doesn't want to pay pro-level costs (Canon L lenses or K-5 body) and wants to travel light.
Compared to Canon gear, the K-5 is small/light...unless you compare w/ the plasticky Rebels ;-)
 

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