Quick Poll - must we have no opinion if we do not like either .....

Franka T.L. · Jun 17, 2011

OK, so if I do not like the high contrast and eye straining all black on all white or the other way round, must I have No Opinion ....

Don't know who set this up, but please .... Its not just Black and White ( literally ) ..

---

Franka -

dylanbarnhart · Jun 17, 2011

There are free browser extensions that can change the color of the foreground and background of any or all websites. Personally I've been using the "Change Colors" extension for the Chrome browser, and I'm sure there are similar ones for other browsers too. The nice thing is that it makes all websites easy to read and give a consistent look to all of them.

Simon Joinson · Jun 17, 2011

Franka T.L. said:
OK, so if I do not like the high contrast and eye straining all black on all white or the other way round, must I have No Opinion ....

Don't know who set this up, but please .... Its not just Black and White ( literally ) ..

---

Franka -

You could tell us what your answer would've been....
--
Simon Joinson, Editor
dpreview.com

Makinations · Jun 18, 2011

Black page with green text. The black should be a little grey and the green should vary slightly like the old 80 column card and cheap apple monitor weren't quite happy...

Gideon01 · Jun 18, 2011

I'm quite dismayed to see that the majority in this poll favour the current negative text look.

As any design and print professional knows, negative text is OK for headlines and short texts, but seriously hinders legibility in long texts, such as camera reviews on DPReview.

I always first select all the text on a review page before reading it, so that the text turns black on a grey background. Makes for MUCH easier reading!

As the OP has pointed out, it doesn't have to be (the optimal) black on white, it's not a book, but it would be wise to switch to a fairly dark colour for longer texts and a light (matching) background.

--
Gideon

sherwoodpete · Jun 18, 2011

Gideon01 said:
I'm quite dismayed to see that the majority in this poll favour the current negative text look.

As any design and print professional knows, negative text is OK for headlines and short texts, but seriously hinders legibility in long texts, such as camera reviews on DPReview.

But a display screen has different properties to the printed page, where ink can diffuse from the dark background into the letters. That's why it's discouraged.

On a computer monitor, a dark background reduces glare. A white background means that the reader is effectively staring straight at a light source, which is very unpleasant.

Gideon01 said:
I always first select all the text on a review page before reading it, so that the text turns black on a grey background. Makes for MUCH easier reading!

As the OP has pointed out, it doesn't have to be (the optimal) black on white, it's not a book, but it would be wise to switch to a fairly dark colour for longer texts and a light (matching) background.

--
Gideon

Actually, I think the survey is a positive step, as it is simple enough to offer alternative page renderings based upon user choice and preference.

Regards,
Peter

dylanbarnhart · Jun 18, 2011

Photography oriented websites tend to prefer black background because it makes the photos brighter in comparison. Dpreview, Smugsmug, Fred Miranda, Luminous Landscape, etc. all use black background. Even flickr, which used to choose white background because it's more "social" oriented, is now allowing black background when clicked on a photo and on slideshow mode.

It's the same reason why many people add borders or vignette effect to the photos.

Gideon01 · Jun 18, 2011

sherwoodpete said:
Gideon01 said:

I'm quite dismayed to see that the majority in this poll favour the current negative text look.

As any design and print professional knows, negative text is OK for headlines and short texts, but seriously hinders legibility in long texts, such as camera reviews on DPReview.

Click to expand...

But a display screen has different properties to the printed page, where ink can diffuse from the dark background into the letters. That's why it's discouraged.

This is a completely different (and valid) problem in print, but certainly not what I'm talking about, let's not confuse things. What I'm offering is not a matter of my personal taste, it is a well tested and documented phenomenon: negative text slows down reading speed, increases eye fatigue and introduces orientation problems (keeping track of the spot you are reading, especially in line breaks).

I urge you to open a text-rich review page, read a little, then switch to "selected text" mode and experience the difference for yourself.

sherwoodpete said:
On a computer monitor, a dark background reduces glare. A white background means that the reader is effectively staring straight at a light source, which is very unpleasant.

Which is why I said that black on white is not necessary. A grey background is fine.

sherwoodpete said:
sherwoodpete said:

I always first select all the text on a review page before reading it, so that the text turns black on a grey background. Makes for MUCH easier reading!

As the OP has pointed out, it doesn't have to be (the optimal) black on white, it's not a book, but it would be wise to switch to a fairly dark colour for longer texts and a light (matching) background.

--
Gideon

Click to expand...

Actually, I think the survey is a positive step, as it is simple enough to offer alternative page renderings based upon user choice and preference.

Agreed. If DPR could offer 2-3 user-selctable colour schemes it would be nice.

sherwoodpete said:
Regards,
Peter

--
Gideon

KEITH-C · Jun 18, 2011

This is an important subject & what could have made this choice more easy would have been actual examples of what alternatives might be used for the message panels.

However there are alternatives already in use on these very pages, howbeit not in the message panels. I see blue , green & yellow on black & white on black as well as black on white !
--
Keith-C

BG454 · Jun 19, 2011

Gideon01 said:
This is a completely different (and valid) problem in print, but certainly not what I'm talking about, let's not confuse things. What I'm offering is not a matter of my personal taste, it is a well tested and documented phenomenon: negative text slows down reading speed, increases eye fatigue and introduces orientation problems (keeping track of the spot you are reading, especially in line breaks).

You have made me really interested in this subject.

Could you please post your links to this "well tested and documented phenomenon" since a Google search for "negative text slows down reading speed" produces no results. I am seriously interested in learning more about this.
--

KEITH-C said:
Photographers feel guilty that all they do for a living is press a button. - Andy Warhol

Rriley · Jun 19, 2011

one thing about this, is the poll poorly worded

Given the choice, which would you prefer for dpreview?

Black page, white text (as now)

I dont know about you guys but all the conversation posts I see are black text on white backgrounds. So "as now" ?

--
Riley

any similarity to persons living or dead is coincidental and unintended

Franka T.L. · Jun 19, 2011

Just as someone else put it already, there is loads of browser add in or preference that can tailor site display ( forced color and font option ) .. So I believe there rea;;y is no need for multiple site color option except for the one that there should be

Text Only Option for slow connection and where some with slow old hardware without enough resource

Large Display Option for those vision impaired , and if possible Color Blind Option ( monochromic mostly ) for those in need

I used to work as System consultant and these would be basic advice I give to my clients back then. Similartly I would say a less contrasy font color / background set would be easier on the readers. Say instead of White on Black, made it White on Medium Gray or Black on Light Gray. There is 2 way to see it .. Pastel color on Darker background or Muted Dark Color on Light Background.

Of Course the readability of such would be counter to fleshiness. One must balance between the 2. Say I remember one of the site I used to help to create had finally decide on Pink fonts on Ruby Red Background. Needless to say its quite eye catching.

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Franka -

Gideon01 · Jun 19, 2011

MisterBG said:
Gideon01 said:

This is a completely different (and valid) problem in print, but certainly not what I'm talking about, let's not confuse things. What I'm offering is not a matter of my personal taste, it is a well tested and documented phenomenon: negative text slows down reading speed, increases eye fatigue and introduces orientation problems (keeping track of the spot you are reading, especially in line breaks).

Click to expand...

You have made me really interested in this subject.

Could you please post your links to this "well tested and documented phenomenon" since a Google search for "negative text slows down reading speed" produces no results. I am seriously interested in learning more about this.

It has been tested and documented since when I was a design student, decades ago, and is common knowledge among graphic designers. BTW, it is only one factor in redability. Font, letter size, letter spacing, line spacing, line length etc. are others.

A quick serach beought up these:
http://web.mst.edu/~rhall/web_design/color_readability.html
http://www.linknet1.com/sighci/bit04/BIT_Hall.pdf

(pages 3-5 in the second link). Probably dozens of others if you search for keywords: graphic design principles text body legibility readability negative background etc.)

BG454 said:
--

BG454 said:

Photographers feel guilty that all they do for a living is press a button. - Andy Warhol

Click to expand...

--
Gideon

Gideon01 · Jun 19, 2011

dylanbarnhart said:
Photography oriented websites tend to prefer black background because it makes the photos brighter in comparison. Dpreview, Smugsmug, Fred Miranda, Luminous Landscape, etc. all use black background. Even flickr, which used to choose white background because it's more "social" oriented, is now allowing black background when clicked on a photo and on slideshow mode.

It's the same reason why many people add borders or vignette effect to the photos.

But this is a photographic equipment site, not an image-oriented photography site. Ironically, in the challenges and galleries sections the images appear on grey backgrounds, whilst in mostly-text sections texts appear on black backgrounds. Go figure... These issues can be dealt with, whilst still retaining the signature "look" of DPReview. It is called graphic design, and needs to be done by professionals.
--
Gideon

BG454 · Jun 19, 2011

Rriley said:
one thing about this, is the poll poorly worded

Given the choice, which would you prefer for dpreview?

Black page, white text (as now)

I dont know about you guys but all the conversation posts I see are black text on white backgrounds. So "as now" ?

That is, of course, quite true, it's only the Forums list that is not black on white, and even then, the topic lists are yellow text on black, so obviously this "Quick poll" does not refer to forum discussions.

It's only the news pages on this site that are white on black.
--

Rriley said:
Photographers feel guilty that all they do for a living is press a button. - Andy Warhol

JulesJ · Jun 19, 2011

What ARE you talking about. Give a clue for G* sake.
Jules

Franka T.L. said:
OK, so if I do not like the high contrast and eye straining all black on all white or the other way round, must I have No Opinion ....

Don't know who set this up, but please .... Its not just Black and White ( literally ) ..

---

Franka -

--
Julesarnia on twitter

Simon Garrett · Jun 19, 2011

I've no idea if I'm typical, but I certainly find white-on-black less easy to read, and a strain on my eyes. I have a modern monitor with brightness set reasonably low (around 100cd/m2) and "normal" Windows screens of black (or dark) text on white (or light) background are significantly better for me.
--
Simon

Gideon01 · Jun 19, 2011

Simon Garrett said:
I've no idea if I'm typical, but I certainly find white-on-black less easy to read, and a strain on my eyes. I have a modern monitor with brightness set reasonably low (around 100cd/m2) and "normal" Windows screens of black (or dark) text on white (or light) background are significantly better for me.
--
Simon

All one needs to do to convince oneself is to select the three negative text lines just below this message box ("Below is the navigator etc."). When the text turns black on grey, the difference in ease of reading is unmistakable, and these are just three lines!

OT - My monitor's brightness is set quite low, too, to about the brightness of a sheet of paper. I agree that this is easier on the eyes, however the main reason I set it that way is that IMO images appear truer to what they will look like in print.

--
Gideon

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Quick Poll - must we have no opinion if we do not like either .....

Franka T.L.

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Simon Joinson

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