Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...Peter Lik. Under The Canopy?!?

A while back, I saw a shot from Peter Lik that was similar to my "under the canopy" shot.

I thought it was interesting.

Well not sure if Peter got wind of my exact composition, but he went back and got it and entered it in Outdoor Photographer....and got Honerable Mention....

Hummmmm.....obviously nothing I can do....it is a totally diffrent time of the year, and he did take the picture.

http://www.outdoorphotographer.com/photo-contests/2nd-annual-the-great-outdoors/finalists/470691-inner-peace.html?previous=false&comments_page=2&selOrder=#comment-124491

He can mimick my work......Now...if only I could find a way to mimic his marketing.....there.....thats the ticket!!!

Oh...and look at what he said about the picture...."standing beneath the canopy"?!? Its a 7 foot tree.....unless he is a Keebler Elf, hes not standing under THAT tree.



Roman

--

“There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are.”
~ Ernst Haas

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Roman,

He may not have seen your image and 'copied it'- just arrived at the same location and concluded that the best composition was the same as the one you decided upon. I've been to locations, looked around thoroughly and found the 'best best' shot was the same as had been done before, which is not the same as copying another's image. I do tend to agree with you though, Lik's forte does seem to be marketing rather than photography.
Mark L

Actually there has been some talk on line about his first attempt and mine.....just google his and my name and you will even see a post with a comparison.

This is his second attempt, his first composition he decided upon did not make the most of the tree. Only now does he have a compostion and it mimicks mine exactly. I would think if he was maximizing his composition...he would have had his epiphany the first time he was there as I did. I knew the composition the second I saw the tree, and decided not to shoot it till I had the right conditions.

Actually I am ok with this...but it DOES tell me one thing....I need to learn marketing a whole lot more.

Roman

Taffy ML said:

Roman,

He may not have seen your image and 'copied it'- just arrived at the same location and concluded that the best composition was the same as the one you decided upon. I've been to locations, looked around thoroughly and found the 'best best' shot was the same as had been done before, which is not the same as copying another's image. I do tend to agree with you though, Lik's forte does seem to be marketing rather than photography.
Mark L

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--

“There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are.”
~ Ernst Haas

We are officially live!!!!
http://www.commercialfineart.com/
Old Web Site
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I just did a Bing photo search and this tree is the eiffel tower of maples... seems there are a lot more photos that your's looks like. This is an entirely different image to me and great skill with the catch light as weel.

Saw your snide little comment on his "award" page. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Some examples a

I understand it is a very photographed tree.

I just find it VERY funny that he goes out...shoots the tree, that tree becomes compared to mine by a lot more than one person.

Then a year later, he comes back to Portland, captures the exact same capture just at a diffrent time. Down to the placment of the branches and how they compliment one another and fit into each other.

Really?!?

You would think....being a professional in the uber pro leagues, that he would have worked his scene the first time and gotten his compositional epiphany when he was there.

As you know....It really isnt a hard scene to work. It is a 4 foot strip of pavment that he has to stay on, to get under a 7 foot tree. There are strict rules of not getting off the pavment. So for somone who is of Peters photographic ability, there shuld be some kind of comming together of the best composition the second you look at it. A pro landscape shooter should find it in about 10 seconds.

But if I have to digress about defending my mild outrage, I have to look inside me. I guess what ticks me off most is jealousy. Really....I have to look in the mirror and get past it. I am not jealous of his talent...or Peter. I am jealous that he is in the uber leagues and I am not. So....time to stop the green eye. (it only lasted an hour or two) I wouldnt be human if I didnt feel emotions. But I am also very much into learning from my mistakes.

So with the green eye gone, I look at me. Where are my marketing skills at? The fact I have a small business with similar quality of work....that speaks poorly of me, and now that I understand what is upsetting me....I can start working on an plan to become a better marketer.

So....I think my hunch is right (and they usually are). I think Peter DID see my composition and decided a way to make it his own. Not sure how much respect that give me for him in the artistic realm of things.

But I do admire his marketing. The fact he is having such success, that I do respect him for, and if I were to copy anything from Peter...that is what I would like to learn.

So appologies, if I offended anyone (Including Peter), but its how I process things....should have probably found a diffrent process, but we all are human and somtimes we make mistakes. I appologize for mine, and learn from them. I'm ok with that, Hope you are as well.

Roman

--

“There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are.”
~ Ernst Haas

We are officially live!!!!
http://www.commercialfineart.com/
Old Web Site
http://www.pbase.com/romansphotos/

I think the biggest problem I have is.....me.

My instincts tell me I am on the mark at what happened, but if I let that blind me, I am not the person I have grown to be.

So...I take a deep breath.

Look hard in the mirror.....and start analyzing.

I sell prints to commercial buyers and while I do a part time business of this, I don’t make the type of money Peter does with his work.

I guess it is time to take this as a sign to get off my duff and figure out how Peter markets himself so well. Isn't it weird how the universe taps us on the shoulder from time to time and all we have to do is have the wherewithal to actually open our ears to what it REALLY is saying. My first interpretation left a bit to be desired.

I work hard to take my art to the next level and I find I am lucky enough to be getting shoulder to shoulder with some really talented people.

Part of photography that I really like is there seems to be no end to the growth to take you to the next level. Negative reactions are not really my forte, so my apologies for my little outburst.

Never mind...nothing to see here. Time for me to get to work on what is lacking in my photographic career.

Roman

The composition is completely different. For any other sane person one would stop at the seasons, especially when it is a red foliage maple. But looking to the branches, the rock to the left and the shrubs and anyone can see that it is a different angle. Not to mention the catchlight which is instrumental in bringing out those branches.

A person could make a stronger argument that you "copied" the others. But that would have to be a self absorbed nincompoop making that... right?

One of the sadder aspects is that we were (are) so proud and happy for your recent accomplishment and you turn around and belittle a fellow photographers accomplishment.

Pathetic.

And enough with the "marketing" snivelling. If you are going to accept responsibility for the wrong here than stop trying to minimize your actions. This has nothing to do with marketing, it has everything to do with Roman Johnson wrongly accusing and atacking another's character and skill.

Patrick McMahon said:

The composition is completely different. For any other sane person one would stop at the seasons, especially when it is a red foliage maple. But looking to the branches, the rock to the left and the shrubs and anyone can see that it is a different angle. Not to mention the catchlight which is instrumental in bringing out those branches.

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Cool....I can agree with that.

Patrick McMahon said:

A person could make a stronger argument that you "copied" the others. But that would have to be a self absorbed nincompoop making that... right?

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Mine was taken way back in 2004. Quite a few years ago. Show me a shot from earlier that is like that and I will start to see your side a bit more. I didn’t even know shots like that existed till years later. I never called Peter names though…I made accusations. But you are now implying I am self-absorbed…then you call me Sniveling……really? I am calling you out on that….we can have a civil discussion about what is going on….no?

Patrick McMahon said:

One of the sadder aspects is that we were (are) so proud and happy for your recent accomplishment and you turn around and belittle a fellow photographers accomplishment

Pathetic.

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Ah...almost as pathetic as you belittling a fellow photographer? Maybe in your book, two wrongs make a right? Sure…this probably wasn’t my shining moment, but we ALL make mistakes. I am willing to bet you have made a few in your years as well.

All I can do now is sort through my feelings and figure out where to go. But for you to call my processes in that matter sniveling, well…I am guessing that’s not YOUR shining moment as well.

If you know me in the forums, you know me face to face. I am a human being just like everyone else. I am not perfect every second and NEVER will you see me claim to be. So before you judge, jury and execute me….you might want take a few seconds and get past your righteous indignation and remember we are just talking person to person here.

I understand you’re not happy with me. I even understand why and see your point. Now…how long do you want to drag this out? I am sure I will make more mistakes in my life. If this is the WORST one….I have a pretty darned good life ahead of me.

Patrick McMahon said:

And enough with the "marketing" sniveling. If you are going to accept responsibility for the wrong here than stop trying to minimize your actions. This has nothing to do with marketing, it has everything to do with Roman Johnson wrongly accusing and attacking another's character and skill.

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Hummmm....my instincts are pretty darned good. Maybe I am incorrect, but my gut usually is spot on. But I will default to appologizing as I should extend the benifit of the doubt.

I am pretty much what you see is what you get. I did more than just talk about marketing, but tried to honestly understand where my feelings were. I actually took your words to heart, and started to turn around my feelings and try to figure out where my incorrect feelings were coming from. I even admitted to being a bit jealous. See…I am honest enough to self-evaluate. If I wasn’t , I would just be arguing with you right now…kinda like you’re doing with me.

So if you feel you need to keep beating me over the head with YOUR feelings and not have a decent conversation. I dare you to turn it around and be a shining example of what decency is. I will meet you ½ way.

I look forward to your response.

Roman

--

“There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are.”
~ Ernst Haas

We are officially live!!!!
http://www.commercialfineart.com/
Old Web Site
http://www.pbase.com/romansphotos/

On a webpage dedicated to a person's photographic accomplishment you put a snide remark leading others to believe he copied anothers work.

When confronted about your actions you continued to deflect responsibilitity.

All the time you have stated in one form or another that you are "better than that." It has been my experience that people who continually reaffirm that are in fact not. So perhaps begin there.

I know that you are a good photographer and I also know that you are a good participant on the boards but that at best mitigates, it certainly does not negate your actions.

I find it laughable that you feign offense when you have called a man's reputation, professionalism and accomplishment into question. But if you are offended than so be it.

You did inform Peter of this thread, correct?

I can understand that. I have defaulted to appology, basicicly said I understand what your saying. Even went through my own feelings to understand what I am upset about.

Guess what...now the problem is yours.

And I left a comment on his web site....I am sure he undersood my feelings

I will be happy to discuss it directly with him and hash it out with him.

I would even venture to say that while I have some reservations about his choice of composition, I would also point out that he does have other items he is very close to othe photogrhers on....

I will let you decide...

Art Wolfe - Travles to the edge

Peter Lik - From The Edge

Another case.

Peter Lik - Ghost

http://www.artnet.com/artists/lotdetailpage.aspx?lot_id=0C209B9B312A5CB2EF71EF97F99CE031

Alain Briot - Antelope Light Dance
http://www.beautiful-landscape.com/Workshop-Antelope-5days-Fall-10.html

Both video shows of nature photography. Art was first. More than one photographer has scratched their chin at the similaritys and wether somone is trying to leverage a familiar title.

I hold nothing against him...REALLY. But his origonality somtimes comes into question. And Peter...if your reading this....I invite you to share a dialogue. If I have you figured out ALL WRONG. I will eat my words here and totally appologize.

But I just pointed out 3 times where his origonality comes into question...not just my work.

I have yet to see the SAME similarities between other artists. I see Alains work and I see nothing almost dead on exact with any other known artist, I see Art's work and I see no similarities with any other artists.

Yet, more than once I see similarities between Peters work and other artists.

One incident.....I would be on your side TOTALLY.....twice....eh....well...wer starting to take notice.....

3 times....ok...are we starting to see a trend here?

Roman
--

“There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are.”
~ Ernst Haas

We are officially live!!!!
http://www.commercialfineart.com/
Old Web Site
http://www.pbase.com/romansphotos/

I appreciate that he knows about the thread.

The edge photo is not coming up, but if it is the camels walking that is just a over shot silhouette by everyone.

The second canyon shot I have got to tell you is very different. I had heard of the ghost images you could capture at antelope canyon in workshops... I would find it hard to believe these are the only 2. And even if they were, look at how different Peter's is.

Again, these are very popular things to shoot, and the only thing is objectively the same is the "subject object." I actually give him credit for capturing the same, very popular subject, so differently.

But that is neither here nor there. My position has been made, I believe ad nauseum by now and you have certainly put forth your explanations.

I look forward to your next thread...

.....so, who owns the tree?

And last time I checked in with Kerry Cobb (the director at the gardens), your supposed to let the audience know it was from the gardens.

Roman

--

“There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are.”
~ Ernst Haas

We are officially live!!!!
http://www.commercialfineart.com/
Old Web Site
http://www.pbase.com/romansphotos/

I see where you are coming from Roman, particularly when he appeared to come back later with the improved second composition (The first one of his wasn't nearly as good - his second, despite the obvious similarity to yours is a must admit a pretty darn good effort though).

Landscape photographers do naturally revisit locations to rework and look for better light / seasons of course and possibly this is what happened.

His composition IS very similar but he does appear to be quite a bit closer to the tree with a wider angle (?? i've not been there, so may be wrong).

Anyway - it wouldn't surprise me at all if he did, but like you say, imitiation is flattery!

Peter Lik is a very good photog, but I agree - he is an even better marketer (does like to lay it on THICK) and thats a very important thing...

Keep up the good work, interested how the D5100 works for you - i've been shooting a D7000 alongside my 5D 2 and its a very impressive APS-C unit. I'm getting much better results from it than my old D300.
--

http://www.samwaldron.co.nz

Whenever I have a good idea that I think is unique and then see it executed by someone else I ask myself this question:

Did I really have a good idea or just an obvious one?

check out this page

http://www.peterlik.com/photography/35mm-horizontal

You made a great image of the tree. I applaud you for it.

You don't however own the tree or its copyright. There are scenes that beg for a particular composition and time. How many truly different shots have you seen of Mach Picchu or the Delicate Arch in Utah?

I have seen almost exact copies of some of my Chicago shots being sold by a popular commercial photgrapher in his well known shop on the magnificent mile in Chicago. I do however not believe he has even seen my shots. It is just that the scenes beg to be shot that way.

If you have time and interest pick up a copy of Michael Freemans book "The Photographer's Mind" and read the chapter Cliché and Irony (pages 48...57). The chapter discusses this particular issue in detail.
--
Kind regards
Kaj
http://www.pbase.com/kaj_e
WSSA member

It's about time we started to take photography seriously and treat it as a hobby.- Elliott Erwitt

Really, Roman... you should be ashamed of yourself.

Then again, this post is probably just another opportunistic attempt to get more people to look at your one good photo again.... you never seem to miss an opportunity to do that.