135mm f2 DC with D700, OR 85mm f1.8D on D3100

Now both you guys finally got it, sensor size does not affect DOF.
The laws of physics have not changed ;)
The circle of confusion changes with sensor size.
The size of the circle of confusion is part of dof calculation formula.
Any change in the size of the COC changes the dof ;)
--
Leonard Shepherd

Good photography is mainly about doing simple things well. The challenge is doing simple things well enough for good results.
 
(this is too easy)

So what happens if the person does not want to change the FOV? he she simply wants to have 2 separate images taken with different sensors, everything else remains the same. What effect does the change in sensor have on DOF?
No effect. But if you don't care about fov/framing then you have more serious problems than DOF.

If you care about fov and composition then you must alter focal length which in turn will affect the dof. Therefore sensor size affects depth of field. Indirectly , but it does affect.

This discussion is going nowhere. I'm out.
Exactly. This guy is a nit and has no idea about actually taking a photo and why the discussion started in the first place. I've shown him the irrefutable proof, yet he still ignores it.
Now both you guys finally got it, sensor size does not affect DOF. I understand that having to let go of old myths is discomforting, but ultimately understanding the facts, will help your photography in the long run.
You've still got no idea. Everyone else is pointing out your flawed "logic" and yet you still think you are right. Quite unbelievable.

--
Lance B
http://www.pbase.com/lance_b

 
Zoomring is like the kid who is so eager to get out his answer he flunks the test because he didn't read the question carefully enough.
 
Reading through this thread is like watching a car wreck in slow motion -- you want to look away but you can't because of your fascination with the unfolding events.

But eventually, enough is enough. Kind of like I imagine listening to a lecture on the proofs for a flat Earth would be. The novelty wears off after a while and you start to pity the dogmatic, stubborn ignorance of the speaker.
 
Now both you guys finally got it, sensor size does not affect DOF.
The laws of physics have not changed ;)
The circle of confusion changes with sensor size.
The size of the circle of confusion is part of dof calculation formula.
Any change in the size of the COC changes the dof ;)
Leonard, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, the CoC is based on the actual, physical maximum print enlargement, assuming you will print all your images to their maximum size, the effect is at best minuscule.

Additionally, earlier in this thread I posted samples of a DOF calculator which utilizes the CoC factor in their DOF formula as illustrated below, an 85mm lens @ F/2.0 @ 10 FT distance has a DOF of .49 ft on FX and a DOF of .33ft on DX , that's right, the calculator , with the CoC factor tells us that the DOF is THINNER on a DX sensor.

Formula



FX Sensor DOF= .49ft



DX Sensor, DOF = 33 FT :-)



No, I am not the owner, nor am associated with DOFmaster :-)

If the rest of you still believe the world is flat, stay in your comfort zones, we don't want you falling off the edge of the earth :-)

Have an awesome week-end :-)
 
Leonard, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, the CoC is based on the actual, physical maximum print enlargement, assuming you will print all your images to their maximum size, the effect is at best minuscule.

Additionally, earlier in this thread I posted samples of a DOF calculator which utilizes the CoC factor in their DOF formula as illustrated below, an 85mm lens @ F/2.0 @ 10 FT distance has a DOF of .49 ft on FX and a DOF of .33ft on DX , that's right, the calculator , with the CoC factor tells us that the DOF is THINNER on a DX sensor.
No, I am not the owner, nor am associated with DOFmaster :-)

If the rest of you still believe the world is flat, stay in your comfort zones, we don't want you falling off the edge of the earth :-)

Have an awesome week-end :-)


You are giving a false example (green lines). The resulting images would be very different.

The thick gray focal length lines are the same (or as close as need be to make the point). Black is FX, red is DX at the same distance with focal changing to keep FoV constant, green is to show decrease in FoV and blue is proper distance at the same focal length to maintain FoV.

Redo your numbers but set your distance correctly such that you get the same resulting image. I guesstimated based on crop factor of 1.4, 10ft for the DX vs. 7 for the FX (blue vs. black lines). Now what do you see? Please post the results for everyone.

Now, keep both at 10ft. Set the D300 to 60mm/f2 and the D700 to 85mm/f2, again to maintain FoV with a crop factor of 1.4 (red lines). What do you get?

Feel free to continue to disagree by ignoring the resulting image.
--
Taking pictures of what I want to...
http://www.photobriangray.com/
 
Leonard, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, the CoC is based on the actual, physical maximum print enlargement, assuming you will print all your images to their maximum size, the effect is at best minuscule.

Additionally, earlier in this thread I posted samples of a DOF calculator which utilizes the CoC factor in their DOF formula as illustrated below, an 85mm lens @ F/2.0 @ 10 FT distance has a DOF of .49 ft on FX and a DOF of .33ft on DX , that's right, the calculator , with the CoC factor tells us that the DOF is THINNER on a DX sensor.
No, I am not the owner, nor am associated with DOFmaster :-)

If the rest of you still believe the world is flat, stay in your comfort zones, we don't want you falling off the edge of the earth :-)

Have an awesome week-end :-)


You are giving a false example (green lines). The resulting images would be very different.

The thick gray focal length lines are the same (or as close as need be to make the point). Black is FX, red is DX at the same distance with focal changing to keep FoV constant , green is to show decrease in FoV and blue is proper distance at the same focal length to maintain FoV.

Redo your numbers but set your distance correctly such that you get the same resulting image. I guesstimated based on crop factor of 1.4, 10ft for the DX vs. 7 for the FX (blue vs. black lines). Now what do you see? Please post the results for everyone.

Now, keep both at 10ft. Set the D300 to 60mm/f2 and the D700 to 85mm/f2, again to maintain FoV with a crop factor of 1.4 (red lines). What do you get?

Feel free to continue to disagree by ignoring the resulting image.
You are tripping over your own fallacy again and again.

If you want to measure the effect of sensor size on DOF, the only factor that changes is the sensor size . The Distance, Focal length and F/stop remain the same

If you change teh distance, then the DOF changes as the resul of the distance. Not sensor

If you change the Focal Length then the DOF changes as aresult of FL. Not sensor

If you change the sensor the FOV changes= result of the sensor
 
I have Nikon 135mm f2 DC lens on order to use with my D700, but I already have a Nikon 85mm f/1.8D lens.

Would I be better off getting a DX body like a D3100 and using the 85mm lens instead, giving me an equivalent 127mm focal length (close to 135mm) and also F1.8 instead of F2?

Thank you for your thoughts.
The 135 DC is my best portrait lens. Better than my 85 1.4 D. Better than my 70-200. Better than any of my Leica glass.

It was magic on my D700. I have since sold the D700 and 85 .4 D.

Soon I will compare it to my new 85 1.4 G on my D3x.

If you are interested in portraits I can think of no better lens.

For those that recommend lots of post processing I will say, why ever use a fast lens for DOF control at all then? Yes, PP can do a lot but I like to get as close as possible out of camera. Then I PP.

The 135 DC has no peer.

Best,

Bill
 
You are tripping over your own fallacy again and again.

If you want to measure the effect of sensor size on DOF, the only factor that changes is the sensor size . The Distance, Focal length and F/stop remain the same

If you change teh distance, then the DOF changes as the resul of the distance. Not sensor

If you change the Focal Length then the DOF changes as aresult of FL. Not sensor

If you change the sensor the FOV changes= result of the sensor
I am sure clients will love their headless, legless portraits so you can get the same DoF for a given focal length, aperture and working distance of a 35mm camera on your DX sensor because DOF Master said so. Composition means nothing.
--
Taking pictures of what I want to...
http://www.photobriangray.com/
 
Yes I do realise, but back in the real world you'd frame the subject the same to compare (yes different FOV) wouldn't you. So the statement the gentleman said to start with is generally correct. Full frame (d700) will have shallower DOF, he was right. That's why many prime shooters love FX over DX because they can use this to great effect.
DOF is affected by sensor size. Google will confirm this.

The same DOF can be achieved by cropping the center out of a FX sensor, but it does not change the evident DOF in a DX sensor compared to a FX or a M4/3 compared to a DX.
DOF is affected by exactly two things: magnification and aperture. The reason that people (somewhat correctly) say that sensor size matters is that on FX you need to get closer to your subject than you would with an identical lens on DX, thus increasing the magnification of the image. If you use the same lens at the same aperture at the same distance on FX and DX, the DOF will be identical; however, you will see a wider image on FX.
--
--Wyatt
http://photos.digitalcave.ca
All images (c) unless otherwise specified, please ask me before editing.
 
I am sure clients will love their headless, legless portraits so you can get the same DoF for a given focal length, aperture and working distance of a 35mm camera on your DX sensor because DOF Master said so. Composition means nothing.
I wouldn't take a scientific test to clients and present it as artwork.

And you shouldn't take artwork to a scientist and represent it as a scientific test.
 
KL-02-Thanks for your post.Pl.advise whether in field facing a real life situation auto focus may be a solution but perhaps to get the better out 135DC Afd-F-2 Nikor, manual operation is desirable.
--
An ardent advocate in heritage preservation.
 
As I have not used 135DC, I can't advise u regarding this lens (I am a Canon user). Personally I never use MF, and don't see the point of using MF (except for video).
Dada, photography kemon cholche apnar?
KL-02-Thanks for your post.Pl.advise whether in field facing a real life situation auto focus may be a solution but perhaps to get the better out 135DC Afd-F-2 Nikor, manual operation is desirable.
--
An ardent advocate in heritage preservation.
 
The 135 DC is my best portrait lens. Better than my 85 1.4 D. Better than my 70-200. Better than any of my Leica glass.
I coudn't agree more.

I don't have any Leica glass but I do have the 135 DC, the 85 1.4G and the 70-200 VRII and the 135 is my favourite portrait lens. Even thought the AF is unpredictable, it deals poorly with flare, the keepers that it produces are unlike any other.
 

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