a fast, ultra-wide (e.g. 22mm equivalent), superzoom fixed lens, good manual controls, m43 sensor for $600-ish, and otherwise features competitive with current high-end compacts would you still use/purchase a m43 IL camera? i imagine such a camera will exist within a few years.
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if a high-end compact existed with...
- Thread starter ennemkay
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SayJaiBow
Leading Member
so you're going to hold off buying anything til it comes out right?
Superzooms simply don't interest me in any format.
I would not say no to a compact camera with an ultrawide (preferably an 18 or 20 equivalent) or fisheye lens. I wouldn't care about sensor size for that particular purpose. But even so, it would just direct me toward using different lenses on my m4/3 camera. And I wouldn't spend more than $400 on it.
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http://www.photoklarno.com
If I understand you correctly we are talking about, essentially, the FZ-60. And if I get what you are saying, we are talking about one lens with somehting like 22-500 mm equivalent+ m43 sensor. Well, they can make it right now. But no one wil buy it because the lens will be extremely large taking away all benefit (size) m43s have.
Another point is that it would heavily canabalise on lens sales and all other ILC sales buy either Panasonic or Olympus.
But it won't be possible. You need a much smaller sensor. What is possible is hat in the next 5 years we get either a nikon smaller (150mm2 or so instead of 224 mm2 from m43) sensor ILC which does allow for larger zoom ranges and smaller sizes than m43. One could imagine going down that line and develope a sensor half the size of the Nikon, so still at least 2-3 times the size of current largest superzoom sensors that with newer technology will by than come close to say G1 performance and still allowing for large zoomranges and still comparatively small lenses. May be the size of the FZ50, with the performance of the "current" Panny G1. COuld be possible, but not by Panasonic I think as it would still canibalise on their m43 sales.
What I have noted personally since I have switched from the FZ-50 to the G1 is that I have specialised my shooting in such a way that I can no longer do with a multipurpose lense. I have a very very good macro lens, I have a very good 20 mm 1.7 lens that allows me to travel very light. I have a MF portrait lens which will be replaced by any comparable lens with AF soon etc. So no: I most likely would not buy it personally.
Another point is that it would heavily canabalise on lens sales and all other ILC sales buy either Panasonic or Olympus.
But it won't be possible. You need a much smaller sensor. What is possible is hat in the next 5 years we get either a nikon smaller (150mm2 or so instead of 224 mm2 from m43) sensor ILC which does allow for larger zoom ranges and smaller sizes than m43. One could imagine going down that line and develope a sensor half the size of the Nikon, so still at least 2-3 times the size of current largest superzoom sensors that with newer technology will by than come close to say G1 performance and still allowing for large zoomranges and still comparatively small lenses. May be the size of the FZ50, with the performance of the "current" Panny G1. COuld be possible, but not by Panasonic I think as it would still canibalise on their m43 sales.
What I have noted personally since I have switched from the FZ-50 to the G1 is that I have specialised my shooting in such a way that I can no longer do with a multipurpose lense. I have a very very good macro lens, I have a very good 20 mm 1.7 lens that allows me to travel very light. I have a MF portrait lens which will be replaced by any comparable lens with AF soon etc. So no: I most likely would not buy it personally.
no, the premise is that it exists today, not would you hold off.
The point is that a superzoom with m43 sensor would have to be a very large camera. Look at the size of the 14-140 lens to get an idea.
The sheer number of lens elements required in a well-corrected superzoom lens and the need for a high power zoom lens to be structurally sturdy spring to mind.
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http://www.photoklarno.com
that sounds like a cost issue not an issue of technical feasibility. though of course one can't really separate cost from practical feasibility. but if it's technically possible, and it's a highly desirable feature, i imagine it's going to happen sooner or later.
Day Hiker
Forum Pro
Look at the current Tamron 18-270mm superzoom for APS-C cameras. compared to its zoom range, it's quite small when at the 18mm setting.
The µ4/3 Olympus 14-42mm on the E-PL2 collapses to a very small size when not in use.
Voigtlander (and Leica) made collapsible 50mm lenses; to be used they have to be extended, much like the aforementioned Olympus zoom. These collapsible 50mm lenses cover the full 35mm FF format.
The original "Pocket Kodak" from, say, 100 yrs ago folded open with the lens on a bellows. It was essentially a collapsible lens. The negative size was roughly 3x5 inches (there were several formats).
Do some reading on the physics of optics and you will begin to understand just how complex a subject it is. On Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photographic_lens_design
Jim Pilcher
Summit County, Colorado
Vlad S
Senior Member
A 200mm f/4 would have the lens diameter 50mm, plus the focusing mechanism around it. You also have to remember that because off the curvature of the lens the larger diameter elements will be thicker than the compact ones. I can't see how this could be made compact.
The "larger" sensor bright superzooms, like the Minolta Dimage 7 series (28-200mm eqiv,. f/2.8-f/3.5) were by no means compact with the sensor 4 times smaller than µ4/3, and the lens was the biggest part.
Vlad
Gato Amarillo
Forum Pro
I seems unlikely a superzoom for as 43 sensor will be much smaller than the current superzooms, so the chances of a truly compact camera are pretty much zero.
What I do see happening is smaller sensor cameras, such as the Canon G12 sn S95 ot Panasonic LX5 developing to match the performance of current m43 cameras, at which point that will likely be my choice.
Gato
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After 40 years of Canon and Nikon I'm now using a camera named after my toaster.
Silver Mirage Gallery:
http://www.silvermirage.com
Barry Margolius
Senior Member
Look at the current marketplace as a baseline for your imagination. The smallest, lightest of the m43 "super" zooms is the Panasonic 45-200 F4-5.6. This is nowhere near as wide as you want, and certainly cannot be called fast. And yet, it weighs almost 1 pound (actually .84 pounds), and measures almost 3" wide by 4" long.
Not what I'd call compact, even without a body. OK, over then next few years, the lens may get lighter, faster, wider; but it's unlikely that it will get all three. And, it's unlikely that any of the three will get significantly better. It's just a guess on my part, but I'd bet that a 25-200 F4 version at the same weight and size would be extremely unlikely in the next few years.
Just my 2 cents,
-barry
Not what I'd call compact, even without a body. OK, over then next few years, the lens may get lighter, faster, wider; but it's unlikely that it will get all three. And, it's unlikely that any of the three will get significantly better. It's just a guess on my part, but I'd bet that a 25-200 F4 version at the same weight and size would be extremely unlikely in the next few years.
Just my 2 cents,
-barry
Correct me if I'm wrong (since I might be, I don't mean to use that transition into saying what I think is right), but wouldn't that be physically impossible? Superzoom lenses have to be large in themselves, and if you add a large aperture to that, wouldn't that make it even bigger? Pocket travelzooms like the ZS7 can hardly be made around 1 inch thick. Add a bigger sensor to that and I don't think you'll be able to downsize it very much
Gato Amarillo
Forum Pro
I was thinking of the 14-150 and the Panny 14-140. In my book a 10x zoom qualifies as a super-zoom. The 14-150 is a smallish lens, but I would not consider it compact and I doubt that a 10x lens for m4/3 could be much smaller -- though I have been wrong before.
Gato
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After 40 years of Canon and Nikon I'm now using a camera named after my toaster.
Silver Mirage Gallery:
http://www.silvermirage.com
Gato
--
After 40 years of Canon and Nikon I'm now using a camera named after my toaster.
Silver Mirage Gallery:
http://www.silvermirage.com
If and when Canon or Nikon ansvers the demand for a high quality APS sensor, truly pocketable camera, I see no further need for MFT cameras...
Unless the MFT manufacturers themself comes up with a sensor that equals APS sensors in ISO performance, noicelevel, dynamic range and imagequality and incorporates it into a fixed lens pocketable camera.
Unless the MFT manufacturers themself comes up with a sensor that equals APS sensors in ISO performance, noicelevel, dynamic range and imagequality and incorporates it into a fixed lens pocketable camera.
Barry Margolius
Senior Member
OK, I agree that the 10X+ Olympus 14-150 is technically a super-zoom (although I personally think of, say, 24-240 as a more traditional super-zoom), but it is still pretty heavy, .62 pounds, and pretty big, 2.5" x 3.27", and that's just a lens. Additionally, it's an F4-5.6 lens, so making it "fast" would take more size and weight.
I would like the camera you propose, but I think it is very unlikely to exist.
Here's an interesting way of looking at the problem in reverse: Suppose I want a camera approximately the same size/weight as a Panasonic FZ35 (4.65x2.99x3.5" at 14 oz.): If that camera had a m43 sensor, what kind of zoom range and aperture is possible? If they could squeeze a 3x F2.8 in there, I would love it. Or a 5x F4?
-barry
I would like the camera you propose, but I think it is very unlikely to exist.
Here's an interesting way of looking at the problem in reverse: Suppose I want a camera approximately the same size/weight as a Panasonic FZ35 (4.65x2.99x3.5" at 14 oz.): If that camera had a m43 sensor, what kind of zoom range and aperture is possible? If they could squeeze a 3x F2.8 in there, I would love it. Or a 5x F4?
-barry
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