FZ20 "died" - which camera to replace?

For the past few years I used my FZ20 and was very happy with it. Camera worked without a trouble and delivered over 15 thousand photos at quality that was satisfying for me.

What I liked?

• form factor; it was larger that your typical p&s, but very convenient to carry around and ergonomic to hold.
• slide on/off switch; gave positive feedback compared to a push button, as I often operate camera without looking at it.
• 12x zoom 36-430mm; wide enough for landscape shooting, tele range helped to get many details I just loved, or to "blur" background when shooting at a fairly close range with F2.8.
• F2.8 througut the range; it gave enough "blur" thanks to low F number, and more extra light at the highest tele than any other camera.
• excellent OIS; I was easily able to take satisfying pictures handheld at 1/4s and longer exposures in dimly lit interiors at low ISO.
• one-time focus button; it was in use 99.9% of the time, except when shooting single-handed.
• manual focus ring; allowed for fine-tuning when autofocus got it wrong.
• controls; ISO, WB and Flash were at a press of a button
• viewfinder; good enough to be used 95% of the time, except for close-ups/"macro".
• 5Mpix is by far enough for me.
• performance (time to focus etc) was good enough, maybe except startup time that sometimes seemed too long.

Suddenly, from a day to another, it partially "died" (no bump, drop or other such event!). Camera is no longer capable of extending or hiding external lens on power on/off. They do extend/hide when aided by a hand, but you can imagine that this is very unconvenient for daily use. Disassembly revealed that plastic guide rails on the lens have deteriorated (scratched edges) to the point where motor does not have enough torque to push/pull lens out of the edge position. This doesn't seem to be easily repaireable or replaceable.

I'm trying to decide what camera to get now. Decision is not an easy one.

DSLR would be a good upgrade, but I'm a huge fan of a large zoom without exchanging lens. DSLR kit is also too large for me to casually carry around.

Cost of a second-hand FZ20 locally is around 170$. Obviously these would have a high mileage and susceptible of developing the same problem, so this is probalby not the best option. A brand new modern superzoom is about 500-600$.

FZ100 would be probably the easiest step (familiar design), though people seem to be disappointed with its performance: too many Mpix, slower lens (F5.6). I could not find good comparison with FZ20 though.

I've read dpreview forums, as well as "superzoom review" here:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/q110superzoomgroup/

and still can't decide. Except for FZ100, also FZ35, Fuj iHS20 (next-gen HS10) and Canon SX30 seem to be good choices depending on ones particular preferences.

I understand this is not the wisest things to ask, but if someone here has gone through a similar exercise recently, and values similar FZ20 advantages as me, I'd appreciate comments. Please, no non-Panny bashing, think positive

tiksom said:

What I liked?

• form factor; it was larger that your typical p&s, but very convenient to carry around and ergonomic to hold.
• slide on/off switch; gave positive feedback compared to a push button, as I often operate camera without looking at it.
• 12x zoom 36-430mm; wide enough for landscape shooting, tele range helped to get many details I just loved, or to "blur" background when shooting at a fairly close range with F2.8.
• F2.8 througut the range; it gave enough "blur" thanks to low F number, and more extra light at the highest tele than any other camera.
• excellent OIS; I was easily able to take satisfying pictures handheld at 1/4s and longer exposures in dimly lit interiors at low ISO.
• one-time focus button; it was in use 99.9% of the time, except when shooting single-handed.
• manual focus ring; allowed for fine-tuning when autofocus got it wrong.
• controls; ISO, WB and Flash were at a press of a button
• viewfinder; good enough to be used 95% of the time, except for close-ups/"macro".
• 5Mpix is by far enough for me.
• performance (time to focus etc) was good enough, maybe except startup time that sometimes seemed too long.

I'm trying to decide what camera to get now. Decision is not an easy one.

Click to expand...

This a difficult one. Some of the things on your lit just aren't available on modern superzooms - manual focus rings, and low MP count to name just two. The FZ35 (of those currently available) would come nearest to your requirements, but there are other options. For example, rather than go the DSLR route (big expepnditure to match the zoom range you're used to), have you thought about the mirrorless interchangeable lens series, such as Panasonic's various G series (including GH and GF)? Lenses would still cost you of course, but your total outlay would be less than DSLR territory, and they use a larger sensor (4/3?) than the FZs. Or perhaps you could think about the LX5, with lower MP count and larger sensor, but the zoom range is much smaller.

You may need to re-think your requirements, as reproducing the FZ20 exactly just isn't going to be possible.

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Panas0n!c Lum!x FZ-38

I went from an FZ5 to FZ20 to FZ50, they are all excellent cameras. In all my 30+ years in photography (many in film, yes, incl 2 1/4), the FZ50 is perhaps the best all-round camera I ever had.
If you can get a used one I would grab it.

KEH has them for under $400. I have bought a lot of gear from KEH, including two FZs.

ChrisLumix said:

This a difficult one. Some of the things on your lit just aren't available on modern superzooms - manual focus rings, and low MP count to name just two. The FZ35 (of those currently available) would come nearest to your requirements, but there are other options. For example, rather than go the DSLR route (big expepnditure to match the zoom range you're used to), have you thought about the mirrorless interchangeable lens series, such as Panasonic's various G series (including GH and GF)? Lenses would still cost you of course, but your total outlay would be less than DSLR territory, and they use a larger sensor (4/3?) than the FZs. Or perhaps you could think about the LX5, with lower MP count and larger sensor, but the zoom range is much smaller.

You may need to re-think your requirements, as reproducing the FZ20 exactly just isn't going to be possible.

Click to expand...

I would agree with the m4/3 suggestion. I was in the same boat, it was time to replace my Canon S2IS with its relative fast tele F3.5 at 432mm. I wanted many of the same things as the OP(along with an articulating screen), and I took a hard look at the FZ35, but price of the m4/3 kept me looking at them. The versatility factor(and the articulating screen) factor led me to get the G2. I have it now have it paired with a Vivitar Series 1 60-210mm(120-420mm 35mm eqiv) F3.5 lens(one of the better lens of that era) and the picture quality is leagues ahead of super zooms. The only down side compared to a super zoom would be the compactness as you get a lot of zoom in a small package.

You can see this some nice work with m4/3 camera here, including a shot I took paired with my Vivtar zoom lens. http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1041&message=38487311

The Sony HX100 has a focus ring.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/techoutsider

FZ35 or Nikon P7000

I also have a FZ-20. I purchased it around 2004? and although I have over 300-400 pictures taken in one year, I wouldn't trade it for any other camera. The FZ-20 sat in my drawer for since 2005.

I updated to the FZ-100 and am fully satisfied [once I learned to use it]. Tried the other camera's and decided on the FZ-100. Panny had the most features that I wanted.

It's interesting that your FZ-20 lasted so long after so many pictures. One of the reason's I bought a Panny Lumix was that at the time the frequency of repair was the highest rated [speaks to quality of product]. I have no reason to believe that the quality is less today? Interesting that of all of the reviews available, none mention the frequency of repair of the various brands. Panny keeps the Lumix electronics and Leica glass in Japan, not outsourced to China....
Good hunting whatever you choose.

Thank you for so many good pointers in such a short time! I now have more ideas to consider in my search. Next step would be to make tables with features I were looking for and extra features of models mentioned here to help me deciding on technical side. Apart from that - a trip to a shop to see how the cameras handle.

ChrisLumix:

Thanks for hint about micro 4/3! I did not think about these at all earlier, but they seem to be an interesting compromise between size and quality. I will research more on that branch.

LX5 is good camera, but for me it falls a bit short on tele range, as you mentioned.

canuck dave:

FZ series are a strong contender, FZ100/50/35 are very likely to become a replacement for me. Good to hear that you are satisfied, it gives me more confidence to stick with FZ series

As for KEH, this is a USA shop, so pricing offered by them doesn't mean much to me. I would need to add at least 70USD for shipping, plus 25% on top of all that for import taxes, coming close to 600$ total. KEH also requests to fax them a copy of my credit card and passport before making an order, which I am not willing to give away.

A used FZ50 costs locally under 250USD and I can inspect it personally before a purchase, so this would be probably the main option if I choose this model.

bloodycape:
How do you mount Vivitar lens on G2, does it require an adapter?
Sample pictures look promising indeed!

techoutsider:

Zoom/focus ring is a very interesting feature, I missed it completely before. Thanks for pointing that out!

Skipper494:

Zoom range on P7000 is a bit short, half of what I'm used to. I will check out other features, but this would be a limiting factor for me.

AllanGideon:

I was positively surprised by FZ20 quality over the years! Got it in early 2005, treated well, never had any bad surprise. Only after a sand storm put dust under zoom rocker it worked erratically for a few days. Everything worked perfectly right until the current problem. Looking at guide rails it is pretty obvious that they have worn over the time, especially in areas closest to resting position. Motor seems to work harder there. Maybe lubrication would help a bit, but special Panasonic lubricant is not available anywhere (except their repair centers I guess).

Yes it does require an adapter, which I got off ebay for $20 and got the lens itself for another $40 and it works well for me seeing as it comes close to the 432mm tele of the my Canon S2. It is a bit on the long side(and for some maybe a bit heavy), but it gives me a better IQ than my Canon ever did. Plus, I can still hike and walk around with it, without it being to obtrusive for my taste(and I prefer a smaller setup if it was possible).

Brief update after handling a few models, only first impressions noted.

FZ45 and the likes are way to small. I can't fit fingers between lens and grip, extremely uncomfortable to hold.

FZ100 is much better in that respect, but due to MOS photos are a bit more "water-coloury" than I expected. Controls are good, which was probably obvious as it is close to FZ20.

Fuji HS20 seems nice, but manual zoom moves strange, jumps without fine control (maybe problem with display unit). Operation didn't seem as stream lined, but it's a matter of getting used to I guess. I really can't get used to huge extending lens with the scale on top. Waaay different than FZ20 and its internal only zooming.

Canon SX30 felt very attractive. Good to handle, even if it looks bit blob- or potato-like, with buttons attached everywhere ;-)

Sony NEX5 is an interesting proposal, in a kit with two lens (16mm only? why?) it is fairly nice in design and shape. Lacks a built-in viewfinder. Quality good thanks to sensor size.

Other micro 4/3 seem comparable. Probably for now they look "all the same" for me, being a new class of cameras altogether. I did not find Panasonic G series yet.

Compact superzooms (Samsung WB650 and other in the class) are small and can be carried around easily. Quality is a large tradeoff, just as lack of external and manual controls.

DSLRs are too large for me to carry around, especially with extra lens.

Panasonic cameras feature large "MADE IN JAPAN" tags attached to them. It makes them stand out.

Hmmmm. First off few bridge cameras will better the resolution from the FZ20. But many will take better photographs due to colour, improved high ISO range and certainly better electronic view finders and screens.

The FZ100 is absolutely the best way to go for a direct replacement of the FZ20. The FZ100 is without doubt the reincarnation of the FZ20 (which went on to become the FZ30, so some of us are watching development with bated breath). The colours produced by the FZ100 are sumptuous.

And to add a metric tonne of bias here, if you're considering a DSLR, so can handle the size, buy a decent secondhand FZ50. Read through this thread for my lastest comparison of the FZ50 with todays superzooms.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1012&message=38498109

If you don't use hot shoes, then certainly add the Sony HX100v to your shortlist:
http://www.dpreview.com/products/sony/compacts/sony_dschx100v
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The FZ50: DSLR handling of a bright Leica 35-420mm lens that's this good: http://www.flickr.com/groups/panasonicfz50/pool/ (slideshow always good). And now add the LX2: http://www.flickr.com/groups/lx2/pool/
[Tomorrows camera is better and smaller than todays]

If you have outgrown a compact, go for a DSLR, such as entry models by Canon or Nikon or the familiar MFT. I have been using an FZ-8 (healthy though) and I will replace it with a DSLR as I have learned some photography thanks to Panny's excellent compacts with their superb lens.

Vahab

Today checked two more cameras.

Sony HX100 handled very good. It is the right size and provides good controls. Two things that were a bit awkward. Focus/zoom ring did not move smoothly (not fluid-dampened?). Focus and custom buttons are placed near shutter release, to be operated by the same hand as the shutter release. This felt very inconvenient for me, I strongly prefer to have these buttons where they can be handled by the left hand, while the right rests on shutter button. Panasonic did it just right in FZ20, and almost right in FZ100 (extra button does not provide feedback like the switch did previously).

Panasonic G2 with 14-42mm lens is an interesting construction definitely different from bridge cameras. Controls and size were good, although zoom range is a bit small - extra lens are required = $$$.

At the moment I consider FZ100 and Sony HX100 as the best handling models for me as fairly close replacements of FZ20. Canon SX30 is a bit behind them, slightly more awkward for me.

Fuji HS20 was a disappointment due to way its manual ring jerks around, size is a bit large (very long lens). Smaller Panasonic FZ series are too small for me to hold comfortably, it surprised me.

Backup strategy is finding a second-hand FZ50, as suggested by other posters. They seem to be available around 250$, compared with 600$ for the previous group of cameras.

"Do things different" is also under consideration. Either m4/3 (such as G2 or upcoming G3) or a proper DSLR (entry-level Canon or Nikon) with mid-range lens, somewhere in 24-100 mm area, could be a new way to see the world. They do push cost much higher (over 1000$ mark), especially as they would probably need to be a second camera. Experience from using FZ20 should allow to use them more for "local" type photography instead of "vacation" type where a single versatile camera is more useful for me.

Reading through various threads on similar subject (I did not realize there were so many people in a replacement situation close to mine!) and your advice has certainly helped me to rethink what I require - any new camera would do things differently and require re-learning of reflexes

Note: all prices are local and serve as relative levels, don't compare directly with US prices.

You know what? I already returned two FZ100 and I am missing it a lot. Looking at a lot of photos I took with it, I feel really sorry. Perhaps a 3th one?
Kind regards.
Joao

Urbanito said:

You know what? I already returned two FZ100 and I am missing it a lot. Looking at a lot of photos I took with it, I feel really sorry. Perhaps a 3th one?
Kind regards.
Joao

Click to expand...

Followed by a 4rd?
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Panas0n!c Lum!x FZ-38

I am on a similar situation too...

I had a FZ20 some year ago, (that is now still with my brother) after that I happy upgraded to a FZ30, much please with it and is now over 127K photos (yes 127 K no mistype) and starting to die slowly... manual focus ring is broken, just still there because of the rubber and shutter is now starting to fail, I have to turn off and on again to recover shooting ability, this is becoming more and more frequent...but with this mileage I cannot complain for sure

I also bought 3 years ago or so a TZ2 for my wife/kid that I used sometimes as a pocket camera. This one died (comon pink photos, cmos failure) with only 3K photos. I bought a TZ20 (received yesterday) to replace it, but not tried it yet.

SO now I need the FZ30 replacement before it dies completely and preserve it a bit for some special photos like macros or so, because I have some addons, I am very much tented for the GH2, but as I read about the G3 I am trying to decide what to do... I realy explored FZ30 to the limits and need a step up for another category, but do not want to go too bulky as I travel around the world a lot (59 flights only last year...from Europe to China and Inside Europe and Inside China Mainly) I do not want to carry many spare lens to replace FZ30. Also have to decide on wicht lens...

in a case of very limited budget I woul consider a used FZ30 or FZ50 if I had a FZ20, its not full 2.8 but I can assure you that you will not regret.

You would need to be careful considering an FZ50. The character of the photographs is completely different. You might well not like the change. The FZ50 images are not to be pixel peeped unless you want to be upset. The retention of detail is via an array of jaggies that preserve the fine detail; especially fine black detail. The FZ30 would appear cleaner in image in this instance but not show any more detail.

Where the FZ50 completely aces the FZ30 in in colour control. The ability to calibrate white balance settings is an essential quality i will never do without in a camera again.

You will get better photography from a G model Panasonic, but secondhand prices of the FZ50 are around the £130 mark at the moment. That's an awful lot of camera for the money.

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The FZ50: DSLR handling of a bright Leica 35-420mm lens that's this good: http://www.flickr.com/groups/panasonicfz50/pool/ (slideshow always good). And now add the LX2: http://www.flickr.com/groups/lx2/pool/
[Tomorrows camera is better and smaller than todays]

ChrisLumix said:

Followed by a 4rd?

Click to expand...

Would that be a Focus, Fusion, or Taurus?

I sympathize with the OP greatly. I had an FZ20 and loved it, moved to the FZ30 for the articulated lcd but never like those pictures as much. Have since moved on to a DSLR, in my case Pentax and while I'm not about to give up my Pentax, there are many times I wished I still had that FZ20 (t'was given to a young starting out photographer)

My favorite desktop photo is still a picture I took with my FZ20



Some things you have to love because they're too darn hard to like

Or a 5st one ;-)

BTW - what is the reason modern digital cameras place EVF right in the middle?

FZ20 has EVF conveniently placed in a corner, you can easily look through it without tilting your head, putting a nose right in the LCD (yay, touch screens!), being overall uncomfortable.

SLRs had to have their optical viewfinder in the middle due to internal construction and the way light had to be bounced to get to it.

This doesn't seem to be a reason anymore, as EVF is connected by wires and can be placed anywhere on the body. EVF being in line with lens also doesn't seem to be required (unlike tripod mount).

I just don't get it

tiksom said:

BTW - what is the reason modern digital cameras place EVF right in the middle?

Click to expand...

I think on many of the bridge cameras, it's to simulate the appearance of an SLR where the pentaprism dictates where the VF has to be. But as you say, it could be off to one side as all rangefinders are, and all 35mm P&S were too.

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Panas0n!c Lum!x FZ-38