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Milo2

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Hello all,

I've spent the past three weeks mulling over my first SLR purchase. I've decided to put the purchase on hold for a few months and stick with my point and shoot and practice using what controls the camera gives me. In time, if I can use the SLR's features well enough, I plan to upgrade.

While reading this form (very informative and even entertaining) I've realized I need to start thinking about learing to work a picture through post processing too. Currently the only thing I do is fix red-eye and crop using Picassa, so I clearly have a way to go.

So, I want to know what program I should buy. I'm a PC on a budget. I would be willing to buy an older version of current software (that is, give up the newest and the best) if the program can still help me learn how to best manipulate the image.

Given the variety of programs out there, do you have any suggestions?

Milo
 
First it might be useful to explore Picasa more. The program is quite capable of doing far more than fixing red eye and doing crops. Then, when you know its capabilities well, and if it is not able to do something you want, post again for suggestions once you know what that is.

I try to keep PP at a minimum, focusing more on getting the best image from the start with changes in cam settings for the situation and lighting requirements at hand. So for me, Picasa does nearly everything I need it to do.
 
For my Nikon, I use Nikon's ViewNX2, its free to download from Nikon, or comes on CD. Other manufacturers ship similar tools.

It will convert RAW files or edit jpgs as well, doing the basics of adjusting brightness, contrast, sharpening, cropping, shadow and highlight recovery, straightening etc. Its a good place to start.

Once you master that process, move on to the more creative tools. At that point you will know better what you want and need.
 
Before starting to shoot in RAW, I used a Picasa/GIMP combo for all my PP needs. Picasa allowed me to easily organize my photos and added some easy-to-use features, like sharpening and brightening. GIMP gave me the ability to do serious image manipulation (similar in many ways to Photoshop). Both are free and both available for Windows, Mac, or Linux.

I don't really use Picasa much anymore since I decided to upgrade to Adobe Lightroom, but GIMP does still occasionally get broken out when I need more advanced tools to manipulate the image.
 
Photoshop Elements 9 will give you way more than you will ever need as far as manipulating images and is not particularly expensive.
--
RaymondR
 
Thanks for the comments/suggestions.

Elements can't be easier, and certainly does some cool things - like remove unwatned people or objects from pictures, instant grab, and auto teeth whiting. I worry, however, that it might not let you get to the same level of detail as GIMP, since it looks like Element's first goal is to be easy to use, and then to give the user control. Gimp certainly looks like it give the user complete control. And, of course, it's free. I know GIMP can be used to grab items and whiten teeth with a little bit of work, but does it also offer the ability to edit out unwanted items/people? I couldn't find a tutorial for that.

I have more to think about.
 
Gimp is free (and OSS if you happen to be a programmer). Those are the only good things about it.

If you want something usable with advanced features (such as easily removing parts of the image) then PS Elements is probably a good choice. I do most of my post processing in Adobe Lightroom and only switch to Photoshop when severe processing is required. If you are using a Mac then a cheaper alternative to Lightroom would be Aperture which goes for $80 right now.
 
Milo2 said:
Thanks for the comments/suggestions.

Elements can't be easier, and certainly does some cool things - like remove unwatned people or objects from pictures, instant grab, and auto teeth whiting. I worry, however, that it might not let you get to the same level of detail as GIMP, since it looks like Element's first goal is to be easy to use, and then to give the user control. Gimp certainly looks like it give the user complete control. And, of course, it's free. I know GIMP can be used to grab items and whiten teeth with a little bit of work, but does it also offer the ability to edit out unwanted items/people? I couldn't find a tutorial for that.

I have more to think about.
Click to expand...
Firstly, there are several perceptions to photo editors
  • Class A: They are a catalogue of ready made presets and ready made magic plugins / features - in this case, it satisfies the user who just wants to do minimal manual work - just move a few sliders and mouse around, click Ok to confirm and it's down. All photo editors allow that, some have more because they have more research and development costs thrown at them, e.g. Photoshop CS5 - which is very expensive unless you wrangle some academic discount.
  • Class B: They are a toolbox of tools like you have in the shed - screwdriver, hammer, saw - there is nothing each tool can do without skill and knowledge and it does not matter whether you have a fancy ergonomic 5 blades in one screwdriver or 5 classic screwdrivers each with one blade (e.g. simple or difficult photo editor), you can't there from here without tutorials, books, hands on skill and knowledge.
Some toolchests have more tools because they cost more but if you ask any tradesman, the tool he uses is still the hammer, screwdriver, saw.

When you are learning, you look for tutorials and a fair toolchest so that you don't pay excess for tools that you can't afford - you could get into TBA - Tool Buying Addiction.

Take a look at

PAINT.NET (free) modern, has layers, and a fair number of tools, some tutorials, websites

GIMP (free) ancient design, very nerdy panels and icons but lots of free support in tutorials, websites etc....

Photoshop Elements (paid but cheap) - I have not bothered with it - but it is from the Adobe family so the tools there and how you do things should be similar to Photoshop CS5

All three have ready made Class A magic plugins and features. If you buy Photoshop CS5, that has the most but then you may not have any more money for a new camera.

--



Ananda
http://anandasim.blogspot.com
http://www.fluidr.com/photos/32554587@N00/sets

'Enjoy Diversity - Live a Little or a Lot'
 
Milo2 said:
Elements can't be easier, and certainly does some cool things - like remove unwatned people or objects from pictures, instant grab, and auto teeth whiting. I worry, however, that it might not let you get to the same level of detail as GIMP, since it looks like Element's first goal is to be easy to use, and then to give the user control. Gimp certainly looks like it give the user complete control. And, of course, it's free. I know GIMP can be used to grab items and whiten teeth with a little bit of work, but does it also offer the ability to edit out unwanted items/people? I couldn't find a tutorial for that.
Click to expand...
Yes. Use the cloning tool (it looks like a rubber stamp). There are many ways to use this and fine tune it for a specific job. As with all such edits though, it helps greatly if you use as a source a nearby texture that's fairly even and simple (sky, grass, water, foliage, or brick wall, etc). It needs a bit of practice - start with medium opacity or else generous use of Undo - but once you master it, it may become one of your main tools. (Don't overuse it!!)
--
Panas0n!c Lum!x FZ-38
 
Start with the software provided free with your DSLR. If you buy Canon this will be DPP and it provides the best RAW conversion for Canons as well as the best lens correction algorithms.

It also has quite comprehensive controls in the RAW domain so that further processing via other programs is minimised. For myself, I use DPP for 99.9% of my photos with only a very small fraction going to Photoshop Elements for "special effects".

Other brands of DSLR will have better or worse software but all will offer basic RAW conversion and basic post processing tools.
 
Milo2 said:
Hello all,

I've spent the past three weeks mulling over my first SLR purchase. I've decided to put the purchase on hold for a few months and stick with my point and shoot and practice using what controls the camera gives me. In time, if I can use the SLR's features well enough, I plan to upgrade.

While reading this form (very informative and even entertaining) I've realized I need to start thinking about learing to work a picture through post processing too. Currently the only thing I do is fix red-eye and crop using Picassa, so I clearly have a way to go.

So, I want to know what program I should buy. I'm a PC on a budget. I would be willing to buy an older version of current software (that is, give up the newest and the best) if the program can still help me learn how to best manipulate the image.
Click to expand...
Considering that you are on a budget, find an old version of PSE...like 7 or 8. You can find these for less than $50, I think. It will be everything you need for a long time.

Forget GIMP...it's a terrible program for humans to use. It's worth what you pay...zero.

If you can't afford $50, stick with Picasa and learn to use more of it's features. Or try some other free editors, like Faststone Image Viewer or Irfanview.

--
Charlie Davis
Nikon 5700, Sony R1, Nikon D50, Nikon D300
HomePage: http://www.1derful.info
"He had a photographic memory which was never developed."
 
You should look into some trial versions. they are easy downloads and usually last for 3 months. I personally use Lightroom 3.4 (after an upgrade) and Photoshop Elements 7 (version 9 or 10 is out now). I got Lightroom for $99 and PSE7 for $60. There are gillions of tutorials on youtube on anything and everything.
 
Milo2 said:
Given the variety of programs out there, do you have any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Get a current copy of GIMP. It is an extremely complex program, and will take considerable time to learn. It is well worth the investment. At some point in the future, instead of realizing that you have to nearly start all over again and learn yet another photo editor, you'll be able to do anything and everything you need with GIMP.
 
I know you hate GIMP, Charlie, but I've used it a lot and it works fine. Not liking the UI is a personal thing, and once you get past that it's very powerful. Not everyone has the same reaction to the UI on GIMP, no more than everyone likes the UI on Photoshop or any other application.

--
StephenG
 
sjgcit said:
I know you hate GIMP, Charlie, but I've used it a lot and it works fine. Not liking the UI is a personal thing, and once you get past that it's very powerful. Not everyone has the same reaction to the UI on GIMP, no more than everyone likes the UI on Photoshop or any other application.
Click to expand...
Steven, beginners universally dislike GIMP. I'm sure once you get past the initial confusion, it can be a useful tool. It does have limitations, though...poor RAW file handling and it's only an 8-bit application.

But mostly the issues are, as you know, that the UI is not consistent and is geeky.

--
Charlie Davis
Nikon 5700, Sony R1, Nikon D50, Nikon D300
HomePage: http://www.1derful.info
"He had a photographic memory which was never developed."
 
apaflo said:
Milo2 said:
Given the variety of programs out there, do you have any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Get a current copy of GIMP. It is an extremely complex program, and will take considerable time to learn. It is well worth the investment. At some point in the future, instead of realizing that you have to nearly start all over again and learn yet another photo editor, you'll be able to do anything and everything you need with GIMP.
Click to expand...
Sigh!

--
Charlie Davis
Nikon 5700, Sony R1, Nikon D50, Nikon D300
HomePage: http://www.1derful.info
"He had a photographic memory which was never developed."
 
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