ToasterFlyer
Senior Member
+1. (Sigma cameras will never be "ahead of the times" with regards to a feature set)
Rich
ny
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What are the things you expect from a $7000+ camera?
- Thread starter ToasterFlyer
- Start date
Rich
ny
A sigma $7000 camera ??
D3x type body with a FF foveon chip, some new lenses to go with it and a long warranty.
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http://www.troyammons.com
http://www.pbase.com/tammons
D3x type body with a FF foveon chip, some new lenses to go with it and a long warranty.
--
http://www.troyammons.com
http://www.pbase.com/tammons
TomFla
Forum Enthusiast
I still remember my Photo I prof saying "amateurs talk about bodies, pros talk about lens, and photographers talk about light".
Sure Sigma bodies are behind the curve with features other than the chip and Sigma lens, some of which are quite good, do not offer the selection the big boys have.
Still I can, and have, lived with these things because I have been able to capture images using my Sigma bodies that, at least to my eye, are as good or better than what I can do with my other bodies.
The biggest problem I have with Sigma is the lack of first rate options for lighting. There have been real issues with the new Sigma flashes and the sync speed of the sd1 is slower than I hoped for.
I expect pro level studio light/flash options for starters.
--
Those who forget history are condemned to go to summer school.
Sure Sigma bodies are behind the curve with features other than the chip and Sigma lens, some of which are quite good, do not offer the selection the big boys have.
Still I can, and have, lived with these things because I have been able to capture images using my Sigma bodies that, at least to my eye, are as good or better than what I can do with my other bodies.
The biggest problem I have with Sigma is the lack of first rate options for lighting. There have been real issues with the new Sigma flashes and the sync speed of the sd1 is slower than I hoped for.
I expect pro level studio light/flash options for starters.
--
Those who forget history are condemned to go to summer school.
ToasterFlyer
Senior Member
I suppose certain features can be overlooked on the SD1 if the price was at a
realistic level. Since the price is so high, the people are going to want more
features for da money!! Sure it comes down to the sensor etc..etc. but lets
get real. No tethered shooting? grrr.. I was sent an email months ago saying
that there was very good chance that tethered shooting would make it on the SD1..
I suppose it still could, time will tell on that one.
Rich
ny
I know the x530 well... and I can see the increased resolution to the SD9/10 and the increased resolution to the SD14. What I want is the increased resolution to the new sensor, ie the SD1.
Resolution and price are really the only important 'features' to me. BTW I wouldn't buy any camera at US$7000. I'd be afraid to use it in the 'field.'
I've looked at a lot of other brand images lately, and frankly, NOTHING have I found that would make me want to switch from a Sigma/Foveon sensor camera.
Best regards, Sandy
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman (archival)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann (current)
Resolution and price are really the only important 'features' to me. BTW I wouldn't buy any camera at US$7000. I'd be afraid to use it in the 'field.'
I've looked at a lot of other brand images lately, and frankly, NOTHING have I found that would make me want to switch from a Sigma/Foveon sensor camera.
Best regards, Sandy
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman (archival)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann (current)
gbainbridge
Senior Member
True, but despite the fact that this is the Sigma forum, the question wasn't specifically about Sigma cameras. That's what I would want in a $7000 camera from any manufacturer.
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Thanks,
Gary.
If the SD1 can do one thing better than any other camera out there then it will have a market. The market may be small, but they might only be able to produce the chips in small quantities.
Sigma's PR is obviously as bad as their electronics. Sigma sells to amatuers (though very knowledgable ones). Sigma lead everyone to believe that the SD1 would be an extension of the SD15, at least price-wise, and has left all the Sigma die-hards hanging out to dry when it turns out it isn't. Many looked forward to the day they'd get their SD1 and blow away their friend's Nikon or Canon camera. Obviously, everyone feels betrayed, rightfully so.
The SD1 will sell and perhaps it will be a successful camera in the professional space. Such success will be at the expense of many current Sigma users. Sigma doesn't seem to know the first thing about marketing which is that it is 10-times harder to get a new client than to keep an existing one. Put another way, whatever money they make with the SD1 they will lose in sales of their other cameras.
In additional to that one superlative thing I'd expect from a $7,000 camera, I'd also want the idea that the company is smart enough to stay in business with its current customers. I really feel this discontent will seep from Sigma's amateur base into the professional market that will think twice about whether that one superlative thing is worth the headaches of dealing with such a dysfunctional company.
Sigma's PR is obviously as bad as their electronics. Sigma sells to amatuers (though very knowledgable ones). Sigma lead everyone to believe that the SD1 would be an extension of the SD15, at least price-wise, and has left all the Sigma die-hards hanging out to dry when it turns out it isn't. Many looked forward to the day they'd get their SD1 and blow away their friend's Nikon or Canon camera. Obviously, everyone feels betrayed, rightfully so.
The SD1 will sell and perhaps it will be a successful camera in the professional space. Such success will be at the expense of many current Sigma users. Sigma doesn't seem to know the first thing about marketing which is that it is 10-times harder to get a new client than to keep an existing one. Put another way, whatever money they make with the SD1 they will lose in sales of their other cameras.
In additional to that one superlative thing I'd expect from a $7,000 camera, I'd also want the idea that the company is smart enough to stay in business with its current customers. I really feel this discontent will seep from Sigma's amateur base into the professional market that will think twice about whether that one superlative thing is worth the headaches of dealing with such a dysfunctional company.
fucile
Forum Enthusiast
I guess that rules out the SD1.
Other must haves:
-Nikon or Canon mount (so I can rent lenses anywhere in the world)
-Live View
-100% viewfinder
-a very accurate, reliable and consistent metering system
-a very accurate reliable and consistent white balance system
-a manufacturer with a reputation for highly reliable products
-clean ISO 6400 files
-an effective dust removal system
-a very quick and accurate auto focus system
-an effective CAF system (at least on par with Nikon D300's system)
-a professional grade body with professional grade ergonomics
-picture controls (as per Nikon professional grade cameras) were I can fine tune color output to my requirements/taste
-a highly customizable interface with memory so that different shooting scenarios and settings can be quickly recalled
-high quality 1080p 30fps video with full manual and automatic controls
-a high resolution LCD monitor
-a system that is supported by ALL major processing software manufacturers
-a system that can be repaired locally and loaner equipment supplied during the repair period
-support for a professorial grade flash system and accessories
-battery life of 2000 shots minimum
-built in GPS support - built in wi-fi would be nice as well
-dual memory card slots (customizable)
--
Other must haves:
-Nikon or Canon mount (so I can rent lenses anywhere in the world)
-Live View
-100% viewfinder
-a very accurate, reliable and consistent metering system
-a very accurate reliable and consistent white balance system
-a manufacturer with a reputation for highly reliable products
-clean ISO 6400 files
-an effective dust removal system
-a very quick and accurate auto focus system
-an effective CAF system (at least on par with Nikon D300's system)
-a professional grade body with professional grade ergonomics
-picture controls (as per Nikon professional grade cameras) were I can fine tune color output to my requirements/taste
-a highly customizable interface with memory so that different shooting scenarios and settings can be quickly recalled
-high quality 1080p 30fps video with full manual and automatic controls
-a high resolution LCD monitor
-a system that is supported by ALL major processing software manufacturers
-a system that can be repaired locally and loaner equipment supplied during the repair period
-support for a professorial grade flash system and accessories
-battery life of 2000 shots minimum
-built in GPS support - built in wi-fi would be nice as well
-dual memory card slots (customizable)
--
ToasterFlyer
Senior Member
yvind Strm
Senior Member
I expect this - not necessarily in prioritized order:
If its a Sigma...
Kind regards
Øyvind
My best images:
http://foto.nordjylland.biz/porta/Portfolio/Best/album/index.html
http://www.pbase.com/norwegianviking/sd14
SD14 Compendium:
http://www.foto.nordjylland.biz/SD14/sd-usertips.htm
If its a Sigma...
- No non-configurable mini-sleep after 5 seconds
- Viiewfinder info does not turn off when turning PASM wheel.
- P setting cannot be adjusted without half-press afer switching to P
- Remember adjusted P setting from shot to shot. (Configurable)
- DOF button in a usable position. (Middle or ring finger of Right hand)
- Much better Quality Control than with previous models - no quirks at launch and predictable cameras (consistency between units)
- Much better beta testing than with previous models
- Much better beta testing of firmware releases - no new bugs introduced.
- Murger larger buffer than 7 frames. 7 frames gives about 20 frames a minute
- Tethered shooting or live view. At LEAST live pre/review.
- Interchangable viewfinder
- Interchangable screen (especially split screen)
- 100 % viewfinder coverage.
- Broader range of good primes
- Tilt/shift lens available
- Kelvin WB choice (select K number)
- WB + - adjustments from presets
- 2 CWB positions
- Shutter life time MUCH higher than 100.000 shots. 0.07 USD per shot....
- No debris from shutter to appear on the sensor.
- A sales rep in my country, who could come to my studio and demonstrate it, and let me borrow it, or rent it over the weekend.
- A pro service, replacement within 24h, instead of 2-3 month waiting for repair in Japan
- Histogram not influenced when changing JPG parameters in camera. (even sharpness changes histogram on SD-14)
- Crop in SPP
- More flexible downsize in SPP
- 1500 shots battery life
- 2 CF slots
- totally open RAW format.
- open source firmware
--
Kind regards
Øyvind
My best images:
http://foto.nordjylland.biz/porta/Portfolio/Best/album/index.html
http://www.pbase.com/norwegianviking/sd14
SD14 Compendium:
http://www.foto.nordjylland.biz/SD14/sd-usertips.htm
I did - a Nikon in 1977. It arrived, shutter jammed on the first roll of film. Took it to the authorized Nikon repair shop near Washington DC (lived in Annapolis, MD at the time). Two days later it was fixed and I never had another problem with it. It was actually ready the next day but I couldn't get down to pick it up. I still have it and other from having to search for a battery for the light meter - it's still going strong.
However, that type of quality and service doesn't seem to be the providence of Sigma.
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Truman
http://www.pbase.com/tprevatt
Nancy and Pete Spader
Senior Member
I find the Sigma camera images captivating because they provide verisimilitude, with resolution being one of the elements that provide that. Since I am not a pro I do not have the needs a pro does and so I am able to work around the limitations of the Sigma cameras, though any camera must be usable for what you want to do with it. Incidentally, since I am not a pro I would never pay $7,000 for a camera until I win a major lottery!
Pete
Pete
135 format (FF) low noise sensor
sufficient resolution as not to require an AA filter (or at worse a very weak one)
best in class dynamic range
at least 100% viewfinder - preferable 110 to 120% with guide lines at 100%
live view and tethered shooting
movie mode
from a company with a reputation for good QC and support
good lens assortment available
easily interchangeable focusing screens and an assortment of screens to choose from
no performance fall off up through ISO 800.
dual memory cards
--
Truman
http://www.pbase.com/tprevatt
sufficient resolution as not to require an AA filter (or at worse a very weak one)
best in class dynamic range
at least 100% viewfinder - preferable 110 to 120% with guide lines at 100%
live view and tethered shooting
movie mode
from a company with a reputation for good QC and support
good lens assortment available
easily interchangeable focusing screens and an assortment of screens to choose from
no performance fall off up through ISO 800.
dual memory cards
--
Truman
http://www.pbase.com/tprevatt
yvind Strm
Senior Member
I also had two Nikons fail on me.
Once, on the way to a safari in Tanzania, I dropped a FE2 with a 70-210mm on the floor in Roma Airport. It fell on the lens, and it was slighty bent out of focus. (Which I found out after the trip. Luckily it was not my main camera.
The other time was covering a Military competition in Estonia, 4 hours of heavy rain, caused the metering system of my F3 to become unreliable.
Apart from that, Nikon has served me well for 2-300.000 shots as a pro.
I am heading back to professional work, planning on the SD-1 - as my SD-14 is just too unreliable. The list of inconveniances are just long.
Sd-15? Would I buy a camera that was outdated 5 years before it was released?
Nah...
I think my money goes elsewhere.
Kind regards
Øyvind
My best images:
http://foto.nordjylland.biz/porta/Portfolio/Best/album/index.html
http://www.pbase.com/norwegianviking/sd14
SD14 Compendium:
http://www.foto.nordjylland.biz/SD14/sd-usertips.htm
Once, on the way to a safari in Tanzania, I dropped a FE2 with a 70-210mm on the floor in Roma Airport. It fell on the lens, and it was slighty bent out of focus. (Which I found out after the trip. Luckily it was not my main camera.
The other time was covering a Military competition in Estonia, 4 hours of heavy rain, caused the metering system of my F3 to become unreliable.
Apart from that, Nikon has served me well for 2-300.000 shots as a pro.
I am heading back to professional work, planning on the SD-1 - as my SD-14 is just too unreliable. The list of inconveniances are just long.
Sd-15? Would I buy a camera that was outdated 5 years before it was released?
Nah...
I think my money goes elsewhere.
--
Kind regards
Øyvind
My best images:
http://foto.nordjylland.biz/porta/Portfolio/Best/album/index.html
http://www.pbase.com/norwegianviking/sd14
SD14 Compendium:
http://www.foto.nordjylland.biz/SD14/sd-usertips.htm
ToasterFlyer
Senior Member
mmm..not a bad price.. A good alternative to a new SD1 is a used MF setup.. !!
Rich
ny
That sounds about right for 7 thousand dollars. I bought my first car for 2000 dollars. I bought my first house for 8 thousand dollars. A Sigma camera for 6.7 thousand dollars for the little it offers - ridiculous.
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Truman
http://www.pbase.com/tprevatt
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Truman
http://www.pbase.com/tprevatt
Must have been Nikon FE, right? I have now also FE2 plus FM(fully manual).
Tom Schum
Forum Pro
Just a few things:
1. Live view with contrast autofocus mediated at the sensor, like DP2
(Option to revert to regular DSLR-type autofocus of course)
2. Tethered operation
3. Every one is shipped with an AC adaptor
4. Image quality beyond any $4000 camera
5. Weather resistant, with a line of weather resistant lenses available
6. Simultaneous writing of raw and jpg files
7. Nice big buffer like the SD15
SD1 might already have features 4 and 5. There is a long way to go, I think.
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Tom Schum
1. Live view with contrast autofocus mediated at the sensor, like DP2
(Option to revert to regular DSLR-type autofocus of course)
2. Tethered operation
3. Every one is shipped with an AC adaptor
4. Image quality beyond any $4000 camera
5. Weather resistant, with a line of weather resistant lenses available
6. Simultaneous writing of raw and jpg files
7. Nice big buffer like the SD15
SD1 might already have features 4 and 5. There is a long way to go, I think.
--
Tom Schum
SigmaChrome
Forum Pro
Hmmm...
Regards,
Vitée
Capture all the light and colour!
http://www.pbase.com/vitee/galleries
Not a deal breaker for me. Tethering is though.
YES!
Yes.
I don't know...
The camera is weather resistant and some weather resistant lenses are available now.
It does this now. So does your SD15.
Yes, that would be very nice.
--
Regards,
Vitée
Capture all the light and colour!
http://www.pbase.com/vitee/galleries
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