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Help me with D7000 skin tones

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I really have to agree with you on the CCD colors. While the D200 I shoot with has some performance issues in comparison with the newer models of Nikon DSLRs, I have always, always, liked the color rendetion from the D200 a lot. Good luck on trying out the alternative Canon products. I'll be interested to hear how you like them.

I also have to add that once I made some minor contrast adjustments to the pictures you posted in CS5, I didn't find the skin tones of the samples to be objectionable. To me it would really have been interesting to see how RAW files would perform using the camera standard setting in LR3 or CS5.
 
I've been comparing the results for months now. The shots that people over here are posting and the Canon 7D/60D are posting. And the 7D/60D people are either much better in tweaking their colors than the D7000 people or the Canon cameras simply are better at rendering the kind of skin tones I prefer. So... Canon it is. It's not CCD but it's close enough.
binary_eye said:
Swedish Hambern said:
I've decided to sell the D7000 and get another camera. Most probably Canon 60D or 7D. If this is the the future of Nikon, then I'm out.
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Good luck with that. Visualizing the four cameras on a chart indicating color response, the D70 would be at one end, the 7D and 60D at the other, and the D7000 somewhere in the middle. In other words, if you're unhappy with the D7000 compared to the D70, you'll probably be even more disappointed with either of the Canons. The color response is more flat, especially in the reds, and more skewed toward blue.
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nikonjohn said:
I really have to agree with you on the CCD colors. While the D200 I shoot with has some performance issues in comparison with the newer models of Nikon DSLRs, I have always, always, liked the color rendetion from the D200 a lot. Good luck on trying out the alternative Canon products. I'll be interested to hear how you like them.

I also have to add that once I made some minor contrast adjustments to the pictures you posted in CS5, I didn't find the skin tones of the samples to be objectionable. To me it would really have been interesting to see how RAW files would perform using the camera standard setting in LR3 or CS5.
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Totally agree with you about the CCD. The Canon color rendition is not CCD, but it's closer than the new CMOS Nikons. And certainly the D7000 that seems like the worst of them all in terms of skin tones.

Here's how Lightroom Standard performs:







 
Swedish Hambern said:
I've been comparing the results for months now.
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Unless the results are from a controlled test comparing the color and tonal rendition of the cameras, what's the point? There are so many things that affect the final output that comparing random samples posted online doesn't reveal anything.

To use a guitar analogy, it's like buying a Strat because you like the music of Jimi Hendrix only to find out the sound you're looking for has more to do with effects and amp tone.
 
Not all skin tones are the same, and the precise reason I chose the two person shot is to show how skin tones for two different ethnicities are rendered. That gentleman is Hispanic, and his skin tones are naturally darker -- especially when converted to the smooth skin of an anglo baby. ;)
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seeking the heart and spirit in each image



Gallery and blog: http://imagesbyeduardo.com
Flickr stream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/22061657@N03
 
Swedish Hambern said:
These shots are accually really good. Definite keepers. Good tones. I've also achieved these results, and maybe even slightly better, in perfect lighting conditions (warm sunlight) and with exactly the correct WB and exposure.
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Okay, so at least we agree the D7K can "get it right" some times. I think now we need to move on to a better understading of how light colors life, and skin tones in particular. You keep showing us shots you claim have incorrect skin tone colors from one camera. What you don't show us is how another camera is doing better. Look at the other samples I posted from other cameras (here or in a related thread) and see how for Nikon, wrong or right, different cameras get it extremely alike when capturing the same subject under the same lighting conditions while taking care to control/normalize white balance and exposure. We should count ourselves blessed: I just came back from a thread on multi-camera color matching where Canon users claim "it can't be done, not even close."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seeking the heart and spirit in each image



Gallery and blog: http://imagesbyeduardo.com
Flickr stream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/22061657@N03
 
Well, it's the same from the D300, D90, etc.... (read Thom Hogan's guide). I don't know why choosed to change it.... maybe for improving noise.
 
Exactly, always it's a question of exposure. Also, Adobe PS is better in color rendition than profiles from Capture NX. I see i can upload some samples...
 
Seriously, I shoot AWB raw for everyday stuff and it is good about 80% of time. I adjust in PP when needed. When shooting portraits I always set Custom WB and shoot a Macbeth Target, the results are stellar with all skin tones. Auto WB would probably still do fine with skin tones, however, I want 100% accuracy for a baseline. I then make adjustments in LR3 as needed.

I know Canon shooters think this is too much, as a former Canon shooter, I hated the Canon skin tones. When I hire a 2nd (Canon) shooter to help out on some weddings, I ALWAYS have them shot my custom WB target and the Macbeth Color chart, otherwise I get horrible Magenta/Cyan cast on skin tones. Yes, the newer Nikons have a Yellow/Orange cast when shooting in difficult lighting, which is why I shoot calibration targets. Could it be that most people on these forums are Caucasian, and they like the Canon colorcast, while races with more pigmentation prefer Nikon color?
 
MadManAce said:
Seriously, I shoot AWB raw for everyday stuff and it is good about 80% of time. I adjust in PP when needed. When shooting portraits I always set Custom WB and shoot a Macbeth Target, the results are stellar with all skin tones. Auto WB would probably still do fine with skin tones, however, I want 100% accuracy for a baseline. I then make adjustments in LR3 as needed.
Click to expand...
Tell me more... I just started using LR3, and I've been considering getting the Colorchecker passport to generate camera profiles with DNG Profile Editor (see http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1013631 ). It sounds like you shoot the Macbeth chart for every scene/situation? That seems okay for stable/static situations, like posed sessions, but when you're chasing a bride around a venue, it may not be as practical.
MadManAce said:
I know Canon shooters think this is too much, as a former Canon shooter, I hated the Canon skin tones. When I hire a 2nd (Canon) shooter to help out on some weddings, I ALWAYS have them shot my custom WB target and the Macbeth Color chart, otherwise I get horrible Magenta/Cyan cast on skin tones. Yes, the newer Nikons have a Yellow/Orange cast when shooting in difficult lighting, which is why I shoot calibration targets.
Click to expand...
So you do it on a per venue/event basis. Interesting.
MadManAce said:
Could it be that most people on these forums are Caucasian, and they like the Canon colorcast, while races with more pigmentation prefer Nikon color?
Click to expand...
Oooh, wow. From Canon to different races/ethnicities without skipping a beat. I'm smelling a non-sequitur there somewere. ;)

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seeking the heart and spirit in each image



Gallery and blog: http://imagesbyeduardo.com
Flickr stream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/22061657@N03
 
Kim Letkeman said:
Swedish Hambern said:
Ahhh... not really what I was looking for. But thanks for trying. The window is the only light source. Behind is just the wall and no light in front of her, look at the reflection in here eyes. Shows only a window.
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Well, something is reflecting a lot of yellow onto the skin that faces the camera, while the skin away from the camera has higher blue content. I don't see how uniform window light can do that ...
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We're all guessing a little here, and should defer to the OP. However, I agree with you regarding the rear-incoming yellow cast, and offer that there may have been a yellow or tanned wall behind the baby. I learned the hardway (when bouncing flash) that light changes color and character very quickly when reflecting from colored surfaces.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seeking the heart and spirit in each image



Gallery and blog: http://imagesbyeduardo.com
Flickr stream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/22061657@N03
 
eNo said:
MadManAce said:
Seriously, I shoot AWB raw for everyday stuff and it is good about 80% of time. I adjust in PP when needed. When shooting portraits I always set Custom WB and shoot a Macbeth Target, the results are stellar with all skin tones. Auto WB would probably still do fine with skin tones, however, I want 100% accuracy for a baseline. I then make adjustments in LR3 as needed.
Click to expand...
Tell me more... I just started using LR3, and I've been considering getting the Colorchecker passport to generate camera profiles with DNG Profile Editor (see http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1013631 ). It sounds like you shoot the Macbeth chart for every scene/situation? That seems okay for stable/static situations, like posed sessions, but when you're chasing a bride around a venue, it may not be as practical.
Click to expand...
When chasing the brides I do shoot AWB. Like I said it works fine most of the time.
eNo said:
eNo said:
I know Canon shooters think this is too much, as a former Canon shooter, I hated the Canon skin tones. When I hire a 2nd (Canon) shooter to help out on some weddings, I ALWAYS have them shot my custom WB target and the Macbeth Color chart, otherwise I get horrible Magenta/Cyan cast on skin tones. Yes, the newer Nikons have a Yellow/Orange cast when shooting in difficult lighting, which is why I shoot calibration targets.
Click to expand...
So you do it on a per venue/event basis. Interesting.
Click to expand...
I created profiles for direct sunlight, overcast, and shade for all of my cameras, which I created using the Adobe DNG editor. When presented with difficult lighting I do re-shoot the Passport (Macbeth color chart).
eNo said:
eNo said:
Could it be that most people on these forums are Caucasian, and they like the Canon colorcast, while races with more pigmentation prefer Nikon color?
Click to expand...
Oooh, wow. From Canon to different races/ethnicities without skipping a beat. I'm smelling a non-sequitur there somewere. ;)
Click to expand...
Just trying to make sense of all the complaining I read here. Here in SoCal, we get plenty of skin tone variety and I have never had a customer complain about skin tone color. In fact, I shot an Indian wedding and they asked me to boost the warm colors. That was a first for me. Luckily, my cameras kind of did it for me. :)
eNo said:
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seeking the heart and spirit in each image



Gallery and blog: http://imagesbyeduardo.com
Flickr stream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/22061657@N03
Click to expand...
 
depending on your price, I'd be interested to have a backup body

just let me know

thanks
 
eNo said:
Here's one in the D3/D700 that made me giggle today:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=38535966

Goes to show that color and skin tones really comes down to preference... and that some will do foolish things in the name of preference.
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That was amazing...I saw the OP's example and am very familiar with that uniform..it is blue and not black. All that pain trying to make a blue uniform black. Goes to show, a second opinion looking at the same thing in person, can have real benefits. I hope he really doesn't have to go through the pain of moving to a new camera system.
 
Something is seriously wrong with this shot...
 
I'm sure there is some way, but none that I know of. Unless we have two reference photos to compare, creating a mapping from one to the other is very difficult.

I think Adobe Camera Raw had a function where you could load a RAW file from one camera, select "save recipe" or something, and then use those settings for your new camera's RAW files. Maybe that can help?

(I shoot JPG, so I'm really out of my depth here.)
 
It's seem like this file has been saved with modification in Capture NX2?

I don't have Capture nx2, thus I can't say whats going on, but a straight from the camera file would maybe been a better start point....

Regards
 
eNo said:
Kim Letkeman said:
Swedish Hambern said:
Ahhh... not really what I was looking for. But thanks for trying. The window is the only light source. Behind is just the wall and no light in front of her, look at the reflection in here eyes. Shows only a window.
Click to expand...
Well, something is reflecting a lot of yellow onto the skin that faces the camera, while the skin away from the camera has higher blue content. I don't see how uniform window light can do that ...
Click to expand...
We're all guessing a little here, and should defer to the OP. However, I agree with you regarding the rear-incoming yellow cast, and offer that there may have been a yellow or tanned wall behind the baby. I learned the hardway (when bouncing flash) that light changes color and character very quickly when reflecting from colored surfaces.
Click to expand...
Completely agree ... I was trying to edge him toward letting us in on the surroundings :-)

--
http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com
 
Why don't u try dxo optics pro? Using it's Color Rendition Profile u can "easily switch from one camera body look to another, or between specific film looks, or to achieve color fidelity when developing Raw files". Using this, u may get the idea which camera u like most regarding skin tone.

BTW, imaging-resource, which analyzes skin tones in their camera reviews (at default jpeg profile) says about D7000: "with the color balanced properly for the light source, the Nikon D7000's skin tones looked just about right. There were some slight pink tints in places, but overall skin tone looked very natural."
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/D7000/D7000IMAGING.HTM
 
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