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m43- Is what you see is what you get?

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ProtonPump

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Can someone help me understand this:

I suppose that since there is no shutter curtain blocking the sensor, what I see on my display is what I’ll get when I press the shutter release… right?

If that was the case, why do I have this problem: I have a manual (legacy) lens attached to a GF2 body and only shoot at f/1.4 in bright daylight. On my screen, everything looks great until I press the shutter and I get some super over-exposed results. Now I understand that obviously I’ll need to get an ND filter, and I already knew that f/1.4 in bright daylight will result in an overly exposed picture. But shouldn’t an over exposed picture display as an over exposed while I am composing?

What I don’t understand is how the sensor can properly display my image when I’m composing in real-time, but give me some odd results when I press the shutter release?
Maybe it’s some mechanical thing or some physics of sensors I don’t understand.

Even when I turn the “shutter-preview” to on, I still get end results that are not anywhere indicative of what I see in “shutter-preview.”

Can someone tell me if there is something wrong and if it’s true for M43 systems that “What you see is what you get”?
 
Everyone with an M4/3 and a legacy lens has done this at least once, I think...

What probably happened is that the camera calculated, say, 1/2000 for the shutter and f/5.6 for the aperture. When you pressed the shutter release, the camera tried to send a command to your lens to stop down to f/5.6. But there's no data-connection between the camera and your legacy lens, so the lens didn't stop down at all. Result: over-exposure.

Solution: set the camera to "A" mode, that's Aperture priority. If that doesn't work, make sure the camera is also set to Auto-ISO, or to the lowest ISO.

About the preview display. There is a shutter curtain, but it's normally open. What you see on the display is a kind of temporary, throwaway movie-footage. When you press the shutter release, the camera closes the shutter, resets the sensor, opens the shutter, closes the shutter again after the correct exposure time, reads the sensor, and finally opens the shutter again to return to the throwaway-movie mode again.
 
i only use aperture priority mode with legacy lens. I do not use any other mode.

i still havnt understand the reason why what i see is NOT what I get.

anyone else?
 
On my EPL1, the shutter speed blinks when its at the highest it can go and the image is going to get overexposed.
 
the display gains up and down to give a viewable image; otherwise you wouldnt be able to frame at all in some conditions, like when its really bright or dark. use the live histogram to see if you are exposing properly
ProtonPump said:
Can someone help me understand this:

I suppose that since there is no shutter curtain blocking the sensor, what I see on my display is what I’ll get when I press the shutter release… right?

If that was the case, why do I have this problem: I have a manual (legacy) lens attached to a GF2 body and only shoot at f/1.4 in bright daylight. On my screen, everything looks great until I press the shutter and I get some super over-exposed results. Now I understand that obviously I’ll need to get an ND filter, and I already knew that f/1.4 in bright daylight will result in an overly exposed picture. But shouldn’t an over exposed picture display as an over exposed while I am composing?

What I don’t understand is how the sensor can properly display my image when I’m composing in real-time, but give me some odd results when I press the shutter release?
Maybe it’s some mechanical thing or some physics of sensors I don’t understand.

Even when I turn the “shutter-preview” to on, I still get end results that are not anywhere indicative of what I see in “shutter-preview.”

Can someone tell me if there is something wrong and if it’s true for M43 systems that “What you see is what you get”?
Click to expand...
 
I use a GH2 and it does the same thing unless I use manual mode. I use manual mode. ;)
 
On the GF1 and G1 the display operates as Jogger noted. Adittionaly you can press the 'depth-field-preview'-button to close the aperture on a non-legacy lense, allowing you to view the effect of the chosen aperture. If you then press the 'display'-button the camera also shows you the effect of the chosen shutter speed. Only in this mode will the LCD work in 'wysiwyg'-style and it will give you a good impression of the effect of your exposure settings. If you do this with a slow shutter speed, it will also make you wait...

With legacy lenses, where the camera body doesn't control the aperture, you also have to press the 'depth-of-field'- and 'display'-buttons to get the desired result.

From looking at the images of the GF2 here on this site, I gather that your camera doesn't have these buttons. You can probably get the same preview-function with the GF2. Never having used one though, I can't tell you how. Any GF2-owners out there?

Hope it helped a little,
Oliver
 
owb said:
On the GF1 and G1 the display operates as Jogger noted. Adittionaly you can press the 'depth-field-preview'-button to close the aperture on a non-legacy lense, allowing you to view the effect of the chosen aperture. If you then press the 'display'-button the camera also shows you the effect of the chosen shutter speed. Only in this mode will the LCD work in 'wysiwyg'-style and it will give you a good impression of the effect of your exposure settings. If you do this with a slow shutter speed, it will also make you wait...

With legacy lenses, where the camera body doesn't control the aperture, you also have to press the 'depth-of-field'- and 'display'-buttons to get the desired result.

From looking at the images of the GF2 here on this site, I gather that your camera doesn't have these buttons. You can probably get the same preview-function with the GF2. Never having used one though, I can't tell you how. Any GF2-owners out there?

Hope it helped a little,
Oliver
Click to expand...
Even when I turn the “shutter-preview” to on, I still get end results that are not anywhere indicative of what I see in “shutter-preview.”
 
I have this problem on my G2 with adapted lenses. In my case, the problem is that during manual focus I inadvertently rotate the [cheap] adapter's ring that goes from "lock" to "unlock" (I wish it was harder to accidentally rotate). When this happens, my pictures come out terribly. I can often catch the problem during the picture taking by noticing that the shutter speed seems "odd" for the conditions (but can look OK on the EVF). When this happens the end pictures can look blown out and over exposed. You can test this easily by trying to intentionally taking two pictures in the locked and unlocked positions. Hope this helps.
Best
 
Pics plus EXIF please.
ProtonPump said:
owb said:
On the GF1 and G1 the display operates as Jogger noted. Adittionaly you can press the 'depth-field-preview'-button to close the aperture on a non-legacy lense, allowing you to view the effect of the chosen aperture. If you then press the 'display'-button the camera also shows you the effect of the chosen shutter speed. Only in this mode will the LCD work in 'wysiwyg'-style and it will give you a good impression of the effect of your exposure settings. If you do this with a slow shutter speed, it will also make you wait...

With legacy lenses, where the camera body doesn't control the aperture, you also have to press the 'depth-of-field'- and 'display'-buttons to get the desired result.

From looking at the images of the GF2 here on this site, I gather that your camera doesn't have these buttons. You can probably get the same preview-function with the GF2. Never having used one though, I can't tell you how. Any GF2-owners out there?

Hope it helped a little,
Oliver
Click to expand...
Even when I turn the “shutter-preview” to on, I still get end results that are not anywhere indicative of what I see in “shutter-preview.”
Click to expand...
--
Money can't buy happiness....It has to be converted into photo equipment first.
 
On my EPL1, I had similar results. In bright sun, I had to stop my 50mm 1.4 down to 5.6 or more to get the right exposure. The way I could tell was I kept closing the aperture more until the shutter speed started to go down. Greater than 5.6 and it would stay at 1/2000 and start blinking. You can also increase exposure and see if the shutter speed goes down from max. If not, then the aperture is too wide for the camera's max shutter.
 
Rontero said:
On my EPL1, I had similar results. In bright sun, I had to stop my 50mm 1.4 down to 5.6 or more to get the right exposure. The way I could tell was I kept closing the aperture more until the shutter speed started to go down. Greater than 5.6 and it would stay at 1/2000 and start blinking. You can also increase exposure and see if the shutter speed goes down from max. If not, then the aperture is too wide for the camera's max shutter.
Click to expand...
Panny cameras operate in a different way. With my PL1, escept in the case you mention I do get WYSIWYG, with no need to do anything. I did set brightness and colour in the beginning,

However too many reflections on the LCD, made it difficult to use, until I got an EVF. Even if its brightness will never equal that of a natural scene, by now my eye is used to tell what will be the actual result. Not only can I tell the right exposure, but if colour information is adequate too.

Am.

--
Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amalric
 
1) the live view/LCD display adjusts automatically so you can see what you're looking at. The pre-photo LCD image is NOT WYSIWYG! It's an indication for what your photo COULD look like if you adjust the EV correctly.

2) the preview button is there to give you a DOF preview, NOT a preview of the photo that you're about to take

3) the EV indicator is there for a reason - use it. It lets you know whether or not your final image will be under- or over-exposed. Much more so important with legacy lenses in 'A' mode since that's your camera's meter. If you're not using the EV indicator, you're just guessing at the metering (and sounds like getting it wrong).

4) also use the histogram as an indicator for what the final photo might look like - it's a great indicator of clipping

5) practice, practice, practice. You'll eventually get to know your camera well enough to where you can predict how a photo will end up given the shooting conditions and your camera settings.
 
I posted on this a few days ago regarding WYSWYG on my GH2 in low light. It may hold true for GF2 - don;t have one, don't know...

On the GH2, in low light when the EVF or LCD is gained up for viewing, I get WYSWYG results ONLY with Spot Meter mode. Consistently.

Additionally, when dialing in + - EV in any mode, (in any light) the preview lightens up or darkens accordingly but with a significant loss of saturation and contrast - not WYSWYG with captured image. However, again, with Spot Meter mode and AE locked on the exposure I want, what I see is what I get...

Try spot meter mode with AE lock - it might do the trick..

Original post here:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1041&message=38530154
--
Composition is job #1!
 
Please Note: with the above technique, I am shooting legacy lenses in Aperture priority more, not manual. By placing my spot meter "plus" on the tone that gives me the overall exposure I want and hitting AE lock effectively gives me precise manual control over my exposure, plus WYSWYG!
--
Composition is job #1!
 
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