dlkeller
Veteran Member
"and I wish no one would make any other kind of car."
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Dave
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Dave
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My thoughts on EVF vs OVF
- Thread starter Condor99
- Start date
TrojMacReady
Veteran Member
Different class.
Karl Scharf
Senior Member
Good one, Dave!
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May the good light always be with you! - Karl (A700:: 10-20/18-250/50-500)
sybersitizen
Forum Pro
Or people don't like the camera they didn't buy because they thought they wouldn't like it?
(Just havin' a little fun here.)
Ray Maines
Senior Member
I agree with the notion that a33/55 users (the one's who have spent $7-800 on the camera) might not be entirely unbiased, but I think my point is still valid. If the EVF were as bad as some had said it would be we would be hearing a major amount or complaining even from the people who have a vested interest in it.
And I'm really anxious to see the next generation EVF on the a77.
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Tacoma, Washington, USA
And I'm really anxious to see the next generation EVF on the a77.
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Tacoma, Washington, USA
zackiedawg
Forum Pro
My thoughts are that your opinion is well stated, well argued, and works for you - I appreciate it and can understand your reasoning and where you're coming from.
I also disagree when forming my own opinion, in that I was not overly happy with the EVF in the A55, found it hindered my shooting style and ability a bit too much, and required too many compromises in other areas in order to deliver the EVF view, which impacted me and my shooting style directly (overheating possibilities, poor battery life, frame lag, 'slideshow' effect, eye strain). Many or all of those issues can be fixed or improved, and may in the future, but so far, they don't work for me as well as an OVF. But the A55 isn't a good camera choice for me anyway, for other reasons, so there is more than just the EVF coming into play. Still - your opinion and the reasons you list applied well to you, mine do to me, and both are worthy opinions. So far, everything has gone well with both original argument and counter-argument...the only real sticking point where I have some issue is here:
I don't have any problem with this statement:
I'm personally not ready to make any absolute statements...right now, I can say that I am most likely to buy OVF cameras, because as of the current technology and current implementations of EVFs, I find I'm better off, more comfortable, and much happier with OVFs. However, I remain open minded to the future of EVFs, and if the myriad options can all be resolved, I'd certainly consider an EVF as well as an OVF. At least for as long as I'm allowed to look at both options.
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Justin
galleries: http://www.pbase.com/zackiedawg
I also disagree when forming my own opinion, in that I was not overly happy with the EVF in the A55, found it hindered my shooting style and ability a bit too much, and required too many compromises in other areas in order to deliver the EVF view, which impacted me and my shooting style directly (overheating possibilities, poor battery life, frame lag, 'slideshow' effect, eye strain). Many or all of those issues can be fixed or improved, and may in the future, but so far, they don't work for me as well as an OVF. But the A55 isn't a good camera choice for me anyway, for other reasons, so there is more than just the EVF coming into play. Still - your opinion and the reasons you list applied well to you, mine do to me, and both are worthy opinions. So far, everything has gone well with both original argument and counter-argument...the only real sticking point where I have some issue is here:
Where I have a definite preference for OVFs, I've never once wished for the complete death and obsolescence of EVFs. I know there are people who prefer them, and they might have advantages that a few people even rely on, so who am I to impose my preferences and needs on everyone. If statements like this are made too often, then you can't be sure it won't ever happen - look at Sony themselves, who appear poised to make just that decision, that will require massive overhaul and evolution of EVF cameras to have any chance of delivering the capabilities and needs free of compromises for many OVF users, or will force them to switch away from a brand and line they love and committed to. Who's to say that others might not follow if the loudest voices squeak the wheel and get all the oil? Leaving a class of people screwed over because one group of people decided to dictate what options were available to others. Whereas I've yet to see any OVF users calling for the complete abolition of EVFs. So far, most of us simply request that OUR option continue to be an option, alongside the other option.
I don't have any problem with this statement:
Now that's more like it - You have a preference, you chose between two options, and like one of them so much that you will continue to buy those for life. This sentence doesn't call for all photographers in the world to have OVF options taken off the table, and told they must shoot with EVFs or not at all. That I'd be fine with.
I'm personally not ready to make any absolute statements...right now, I can say that I am most likely to buy OVF cameras, because as of the current technology and current implementations of EVFs, I find I'm better off, more comfortable, and much happier with OVFs. However, I remain open minded to the future of EVFs, and if the myriad options can all be resolved, I'd certainly consider an EVF as well as an OVF. At least for as long as I'm allowed to look at both options.
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Justin
galleries: http://www.pbase.com/zackiedawg
swedish cook
Active member
A700 has a penta-prism though, the cheaper SLRs don't - that was probably the issue with my Pentax K-r, along with brightness issue on the LED readout of speed etc, which as I say was unreadable.
I'm comparing with a lower end SLR and you're comparing with higher end, explains some of the different perspective. I'd be sure that Sony will keep an OVF model in their ranks for many years to come on at least one up market SLR model.
Well, even though in fun, it's true ... the people who buy it because they think they'll like it at least know for sure !
Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com
- Dennis
Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com
zackiedawg
Forum Pro
I can say the same for my A550 - I don't find the VF dim, it has the information I need in it, and it is easy to read for a 42 1/2 year old man with nearsightedness and corrective lenses. It's in the same class as the above.
And the A5xx series cams even have active electronic overlays - which I love - change focus points from multi to single and all the boxes go away except the single one - and you get the in-OVF light-up of the box to confirm focus. With shutter speed and aperture below, and the shake indicator, that's all I need to shoot - I can pull back and glance at the screen for other settings changes if need be.
Everyone's different - I have absolutely never had a problem with smaller entry-level pentamirror viewfinders - they've worked fine for me for many many years. I guess others may differ. Personally, I still experience eye-strain issues and headaches when I use EVFs for extended periods of time, which doesn't happen with OVFs for me.
Full frame pentaprism finders are lovely. EVFs can work for some too. Smaller pentamirror viewfinders can work for some too. Some folks are fine with ANY viewfinder of any type or size. All great reasons why we should continue to have options!
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Justin
galleries: http://www.pbase.com/zackiedawg
Steve West
Veteran Member
I definitely have not bought SLT because two intended purposes are microscopy and astrophotography. We've see the examples of ghosting on the latter and I guarantee I will see them on the first oil immersion shots I take of diatoms through the microscope.
Steve W
weather photos: http://home.comcast.net/~scwest/atmo/
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Steve W
weather photos: http://home.comcast.net/~scwest/atmo/
TrojMacReady
Veteran Member
Yep, I find the OVF on my A500 ok, but for most of my purposes, the EVF on the A55 works better. The lack of information is why I often revert back to using the LCD, even for most non static targets. Same for low light shooting. I also find the metering off the sensor more reliable in general when using the LCD on the A500, something the EVF designs offer too.
zackiedawg
Forum Pro
Agreed - I admit that the ghosting issue has been a part of what keeps me away too, being as that I take a LOT of night photography, so if there was any chance of the ghosting issue being legit, I'd most certainly experience it.
For someone who might take one or two night shots or astro shots a year out of thousands...not an issue. For someone who devotes 1/4 to 1/3 or more of their photography to this type of shooting, the issue gets much bigger.
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Justin
galleries: http://www.pbase.com/zackiedawg
For someone who might take one or two night shots or astro shots a year out of thousands...not an issue. For someone who devotes 1/4 to 1/3 or more of their photography to this type of shooting, the issue gets much bigger.
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Justin
galleries: http://www.pbase.com/zackiedawg
sybersitizen
Forum Pro
Which has nothing to do with the topic at hand: EVF vs. OVF.
(I'm only responding because you quoted me after I quoted Dennis - but he and I were still on topic. We now have another meandering stream of consciousness thread with diluted meaning.)
riveredger
Senior Member
Interesting, a cursory glance through your gallery shows no shots that would have been difficult with an EVF. Can you explain more how the EVF "hindered" your shooting style and ability?
Personally, I think the EVF/OVF issue has been blown completely out of proportion.
goetz48
Senior Member
Well, I am on jump from my A700 to some EVF camera. When I started shooting digital in 2001 I bought a Dimage 7, and it had a really bad EVF with some 250k pixel, and my friend got a KM Z3 which was not better. Then I jumped to KM A2 with a 1M pixel EVF, and it was good for me. With the magnification button it was partly better than the various OVFs I had before and after the Dimages.
So my experience is that 1M pixel is the absolute minimum, more is desirable. And as often said, I prefer to know what the camera is going to see, and not my eyes. And it is nice to see the shot immediately after releasing the trigger, and not removing the camera and look into a tiny LCD.
So my experience is that 1M pixel is the absolute minimum, more is desirable. And as often said, I prefer to know what the camera is going to see, and not my eyes. And it is nice to see the shot immediately after releasing the trigger, and not removing the camera and look into a tiny LCD.
dlkeller
Veteran Member
I understand the issue of A700 at a different level than A55. The problem is the upcoming replacement for the A700 level camera is going to be totally EVF with no OVF option, so the comparison is totally valid. Some assume the A77 EVF is going to be so improved that all issues disappear. Of course most of these are vey happy with the A55 EVF, so no improvement is needed fo them anyway.
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Dave
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Dave
zackiedawg
Forum Pro
For me, it is this type of shooting I found very difficult with the EVF:
Birds in flight, especially small, fast ones, I found very difficult to locate through a very long lens using the EVF - the lag while quickly trying to acquire, and the fact that most of these were part of a burst sequence whereby the slideshow effect and last-frame display made it difficult or not possible to follow random motion.
Note I've not said that I couldn't find a way to work with an EVF, or that I couldn't get some of the above shots with one - I shot with EVFs for years and managed a few birds in flight. But I can definitely say that I find it much easier to acquire the bird, follow the bird, and continue to track and pan with various movement even while firing off a burst of shots...and my hit rate is consistently higher. Since I shoot a lot of bird photography and like to shoot birds in flight, I have found a good rhythm, a good method, and the right tool for the best chances and best hit rate - going to an EVF at their current technology would affect all those things - it is less easy for me, less instinctive, lowers my hit rate, and in some cases costs me the shot.
If the lag and refresh improves, if they can maintain a more real-time view during burst shooting, and if they address the other issues that EVF has in the A33/55 (battery life, overheating), then I'd most certainly consider the next gen version in something like the A77...until then, the A550 and A580 just works better for me and my style of shooting.
It has been a bit blown out of proportion - agreed. But I have no part of the 'EVF sucks' or 'EVF is great' arguments. The only statements that draw me in are when I see fans of one type of finder stating that the other kind should be eliminated, banned, stopped, ended, etc. I am perfectly OK with both types being on the market for people to select from, and remain open minded that I could someday prefer EVFs over OVFs. But that time hasn't come yet, and I'd appreciate continuing to have an OVF option.
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Justin
galleries: http://www.pbase.com/zackiedawg
I buy a new camera every year. My point is that I own one of each and I didn't have a vested interest in either type of finder. I read all the negatives before I bought the a55 because I wanted to decide for my self by using it in the real world. I ended up preferring the EVF after using both in many real world situations. This does not mean I think everyone should use an EVF, just that it is better for me and my photography. The people who try out the a55 inside a store for 5 minutes and decide they don't like it are only cheating themselves.
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Tom Seiler
My portfolio:
http://picasaweb.google.com/SeilerBird/MyPortfolio
Sony a330 Copper > Sony 18-55
Sony a55 > Tamron 200-500
Sony 75-300
I disagree. I love my a55 EVF but it is not close to perfect and I am eagerly awaiting the a77. I will be one of the first to buy it and try it.
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Tom Seiler
My portfolio:
http://picasaweb.google.com/SeilerBird/MyPortfolio
Sony a330 Copper > Sony 18-55
Sony a55 > Tamron 200-500
Sony 75-300
I feel the same way too, but since I drive a motorhome and you can't power a motorhome on anything but gas and diesel I am stuck with a gasser.
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Tom Seiler
My portfolio:
http://picasaweb.google.com/SeilerBird/MyPortfolio
Sony a330 Copper > Sony 18-55
Sony a55 > Tamron 200-500
Sony 75-300
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