D7000 back from Nikon

so good for you - maybe they play with mounts and replace a couple times until they find a better one

in any case let's wait and see for the OP's views ?

because there are tons of threads where people complain and there's no hard evidence

again, IF there are problems, they will be caused by the normal statistical variations in a manufacturing process. I find it preposterous that people should buy a $1k device made in large numbers and sold through a mainstream channel, and then expect manaufacturing margins of error comparable to what they'd get on exclusive products, say Alpa cameras for one.

we care how they "adjust" because it is pointless to hope that a mass market product can ever be "adjusted" to within very very precise margins only available to premium products and manufacturing.

I am personally amazed that I should be able to get so many shots where I can count individual eyelashes. But of course I also did get quite a few with my $400 FZ-18 superzoom, so.

Bottom-line: clearly not all bodies, and more specifically not all body+lens combinations, will be "good enough" ("perfect" being a meaningless word). But there are too many people out there not conscious of the limitations of what they bought.

But, clearly, if I found that most my lenses required, say, a -15 adjustment, then I'd send my camera back to Nikon, in the hope that they could do something about it (but without expecting too much). Not that Nikon is any different from Canon or any other here.

SOLUTION? The REAL, only true solution, is to by a mirrorless camera, say a G3 or GH2 or E-PL2 or whatever. These use, as you know, contrast-detect, which is ALWAYS precise, and NEVER requires micro-adjust. Plus, the GH2 and the G3 are at least as fast to focus, as DSLRs up to the enthusiast level (d7k, 7D).

At $1350 that I paid for my D7000 I do expect more from Nikon, if it was a $200 camera well maybe I shouldn't expect as much quality control. At over $1000 for a camera body I think I have the right for more quality from Nikon.

To you $1000 might be much money but to the average person out there it is indeed a lot of money outlay.

rpps said:

At $1350 that I paid for my D7000 I do expect more from Nikon, if it was a $200 camera well maybe I shouldn't expect as much quality control. At over $1000 for a camera body I think I have the right for more quality from Nikon.

To you $1000 might be much money but to the average person out there it is indeed a lot of money outlay.

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Left the not out

To you $1000 might not be much money but to the average person out there it is indeed a lot of money outlay.

antoineb said:

because there are tons of threads where people complain and there's no hard evidence

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So is it a matter of evidence..?

Here's some evidence:
https://picasaweb.google.com/zsuraski/NikonD7000D90

That's before the fix. Now, I get ultra sharp pictures with AF fine tune disabled, and the pics are blurry if AF fine tune is engaged.

antoineb said:

again, IF there are problems, they will be caused by the normal statistical variations in a manufacturing process. I find it preposterous that people should buy a $1k device made in large numbers and sold through a mainstream channel, and then expect manaufacturing margins of error comparable to what they'd get on exclusive products, say Alpa cameras for one.

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I don't care about manufacturing margins of error. If they result in equipment that's unacceptable for use, as was in my case - this should be caught in QC.

antoineb said:

I am personally amazed that I should be able to get so many shots where I can count individual eyelashes. But of course I also did get quite a few with my $400 FZ-18 superzoom, so.

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You shouldn't be amazed at all. Any modern camera, when properly used (correct exposure, reasonably steady holding, etc.) should create pictures that are count-the-eyelashes-sharp almost every time you shoot them.
If that surprises you then I think you set your bar very low...

antoineb said:

Bottom-line: clearly not all bodies, and more specifically not all body+lens combinations, will be "good enough" ("perfect" being a meaningless word). But there are too many people out there not conscious of the limitations of what they bought.

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It's really really really not about body/lenses combinations. If it was, you'd see countless people also complaining about other DSLRs - and it would have been even worse, since there's no AF fine tune to tackle it in the D90, D3xxx and D5xxx. But you don't. It's only in the D7000.

The point isn't that it's good for me, I know it's good for me

The point is that it's possible, and trying to convince others that it isn't is simply misleading (although I'm sure your intentions are positive).

antoineb said:

You could be willing to pay lots more - if wouldn't change a thing.

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I couldn't disagree more with that statement. Usually you get what you pay for. Quality control, like all human intervention, has a significant cost, and although the probably comfortable margins of the D7000 should allow for better quality control its complexity compared with other models and the high demand seem to have lead to a rushed launch requiring a firmware update and fixing of the problems by after-sales service rather than in the factory. If a customer can detect problems, trained Nikon personal should be able to, too, only that as it stands adjusting indicidual returns seems to be more profitable than thorough testing of all units leaving the factory.

I have no way of knowing if the actual "defect" rate is higher than other Nkon models, but it seems that we do hear about more problems which can be linked to the fact that when you pay that kind of money you may be more particular about getting your money's worth, and that focus problems are more noticeable with that camera.

In Nikon's defense, apparently AF adjustment often seems to require the actual lens, something that cannot be done in the factory.

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D5000 - Nikkor AF-S DX 18-105mm F/3.5-5.6G ED VR - Nikkor AF-S 50mm f/1.4 G - Nikkor AF-S 70-300mm VR - Canon PowerShot S3

IF there are problems, they will be caused by the normal statistical variations in a manufacturing process. I find it preposterous that people should buy a $1k device made in large numbers and sold through a mainstream channel, and then expect manaufacturing margins of error comparable to what they'd get on exclusive products, say Alpa cameras for one.

Antoine, do you work for Nikon or have access to their defect statistics to make this statement with such authority? How do you know D7000 quality variations are statistically normal?

I believe what people want when they by a $1000 - 1400 camera is to get one than focuses correctly and the fact that most others do (probably 99.99% of all units) doesn't really help them but and probably only makes them feel worse.

The way to reassure these customers is by fixing their problem, fast and free of charge, not by belittling it or pointing to statistics.

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D5000 - Nikkor AF-S DX 18-105mm F/3.5-5.6G ED VR - Nikkor AF-S 50mm f/1.4 G - Nikkor AF-S 70-300mm VR - Canon PowerShot S3

Polyglot92 said:

IF there are problems, they will be caused by the normal statistical variations in a manufacturing process. I find it preposterous that people should buy a $1k device made in large numbers and sold through a mainstream channel, and then expect manaufacturing margins of error comparable to what they'd get on exclusive products, say Alpa cameras for one.

Antoine, do you work for Nikon or have access to their defect statistics to make this statement with such authority? How do you know D7000 quality variations are statistically normal?

I believe what people want when they by a $1000 - 1400 camera is to get one than focuses correctly and the fact that most others do (probably 99.99% of all units) doesn't really help them but and probably only makes them feel worse.

The way to reassure these customers is by fixing their problem, fast and free of charge, not by belittling it or pointing to statistics.

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D5000 - Nikkor AF-S DX 18-105mm F/3.5-5.6G ED VR - Nikkor AF-S 50mm f/1.4 G - Nikkor AF-S 70-300mm VR - Canon PowerShot S3

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This is what I agree with. Yes, a form of electronics will not be perfect. That is understandable. The hope is that Nikon repair will fix it so that one can go back to enjoying photography with a great camera. The fact that I have had to send my camera twice to Nikon for a recurring problem and come back for the 4th time with the SAME issue, is ridiculous. The problem should have been taken seriously and fixed. They are only now offering a manager to review it for replacement, but I cannot receive it in the deadline needed for my trip. Which was the reason I requested a replacement 2 weeks ago, so that I would have a functional camera in time. All I get are apologies, but no one can tell me what is wrong with my camera or how they claim to fix it when the problem happened, twice immediately after getting my camera back from Nikon NY. It makes me not trust my camera body, or Nikon Repair in NY. That is sad, because I never had a problem until this point and I deal with customer service as a living, and this is clearly a failure of customer service.

I disagree. Having worked in industries & having seen many man @ work, the reality is when the whole personal is in a bad mood because of lower salaries, lots of mistakes will be made in the assembly process.

Besides, Japanese workers enroll their work as a "duty", they are very assiduous and have a great sense of honour towards the brand & consumers, they really put their hearts @ work.

Finally, it is clear that camera and lenses control and assembly quality declined since nikon delocalised its fabrics in China. Nowadays we get what we pay for > already obsolete brand new cameras that have to be reshipped just after unboxing them : how great is that ??? I am not willing to invest 1,5K in a 1$ max store camera.

You can tell me anything you want but reality is a fact. I never ever had any problem with Nikon cameras since I bought my slr in 1997. My 1rst 2 Nikon dslr still work perfectly. When I went to buy the D7K , I tried 5 faulty cameras in 3 different stores. 6 months passed before testing the 1st one & the 5th D7000. Nikon had time enough to fix this issue but apparently did not.

Camera stores even big ones like B & H sell returned cameras to their customers, hoping that they dont realise the problems.

So for the moment I keep shooting on my D90, waiting for a non faulty full frame camera assembled with care.

Thanks mine been to New York service center twice.

I am returning to UK and then to South Africa in two weeks.

I am inclined to wait till I am home and get Nikon South Africa to sort the issue out for me. I have a Nikon 70-200 F2.8 that had a faulty AF PC board and Nikon South Africa sent the lens back the first time with the focus off. When I told them to keep the lens till it was right the second time, it came back spot on.

It is just getting the right person to spend the time with the lens and body till it is fixed. i think Nikon is not owning up to a bigger issue with some of the earlier D7000 bodies.

Zeev Suraski said:

Ouch, looks like you're in an even worse scenario then me - at least in my case it was resolved after two trips.

The only suggestion I can give you is to try and ask that your problem be immediately escalated to David Dentry. His role is 'General Manager, Customer Relations', and he's the one I was in touch with after I complained that it wasn't fixed the first time around. No matter how many times I demanded he completely refused to replace the camera if it can be fixed - but he did see to it that it goes to the NY service center (rerouted as soon as it hit the LA service center), and I presume he did whatever's necessary to make sure that nobody messes this repair up.

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For what ever reason Nikons has to have put on the market so many defective cameras they better get their act together because it's reputation as a camera manufacturer is hurting and being things as they are right now in the market it's going to hurt them even more .

If what I have read here and else is true then there is no way you can justifiy so many defective cameras on the market at once and there is absolutely no reason why consumers have had to send their cameras in for a fix two and three times. For the great mayority of consumers on the market 1000 dollars for a camera is a lot of money . Right now I already have the money to get me one ( putting aside some money every month in order to be able to afford one.) Do you think that at this point in time I am going to buy a camera that might be defective on me ? No way . I've been waiting for this issue to be resolved but by what I keep on reading here it seems that there are still some issues to be resolved by Nikon.

When the D90 came out on the market there was a lot of complaining of overexposure , but hardly no one complained of defective copies of cameras that had to be sent back to Nikon . On this forum I have never read so many complaints on one new Nikon camera until now.

In the beginning I was beliveing that all the fuss was really newbie errors which happens when a new camera comes out on the market . But many of the complaining here comes from experience advance amateurs and pros so not knowing how to use it has had to be ruled out. What I don't understand yet is why haven't any of the reviewers who have reviewed the camera mentioned anything pertaining to glitches in the cameras autofocus system. . Curious, no?

Mannypr said:

What I don't understand yet is why haven't any of the reviewers who have reviewed the camera mentioned anything pertaining to glitches in the cameras autofocus system. . Curious, no?

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The probability that a reviewer would happen to get one of the few units out of one hundred which have serious focus problems must be low. It only adds up and becomes noticeable when thousands or tens of thousands of units are sold. Then however you hear about it here when the problem is really serious and cannot be fixed quickly by the manufacturer.
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D5000 - Nikkor AF-S DX 18-105mm F/3.5-5.6G ED VR - Nikkor AF-S 50mm f/1.4 G - Nikkor AF-S 70-300mm VR - Canon PowerShot S3

Which service center did you send your D7000 to? Did you also include your lens?

I am having similar issues. The 16-85mm at -4 focuses everywhere more or less well, but the 50mm 1.4G has severe issues. Like you -20 solves the issue but only for certain distances, and certain AFs. For F/28.8 for example for some distances I get sharp results but for other (close) they are really bad. With the D60 they were extremely sharp in each and every shot!

Mannypr said:

What I don't understand yet is why haven't any of the reviewers who have reviewed the camera mentioned anything pertaining to glitches in the cameras autofocus system. . Curious, no?

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I'm not sure about other review sites, but Nikon supplies DPReview with test cameras.
I have to think the chance of supplying a dud is pretty slim ;-)

--
Patco
A photograph is more than a bunch of pixels

From my experience so far the D60 had spot on AF and the D7000 has some serious defect. Note that I am talking about my copy. Hopefully Nikon will fix that since it will be going back to them along with the lenses, since no amount of AF fine tuning can fix the issues I am getting. I still find it hard to believe that the crappy 3-point AF of my D60 beats the hell out of the 39-point AF with 3D tracking of my D7000.

Is there some flaw in your logic?

How come a crappy old 4-5 year tech like the D60 focus razor-sharp and the D7000 can't? On a lens that was NOT the kit lens for either of the cameras, and that existed only when the D7000 came out!

So a body that was fabricated and designed prior to the design of the 50mm 1.4G focus perfectly, and a body that was designed after the lens' introduction has some crazy AF issues. This seems like really bad QC or some inherent defect that they caught really late. Since many people seem happy with their copies I hope it is the former.

If you can find ANY rational argument against my logic above please do try.

pixelresolver said:

Is there some flaw in your logic?

How come a crappy old 4-5 year tech like the D60 focus razor-sharp and the D7000 can't? On a lens that was NOT the kit lens for either of the cameras, and that existed only when the D7000 came out!

So a body that was fabricated and designed prior to the design of the 50mm 1.4G focus perfectly, and a body that was designed after the lens' introduction has some crazy AF issues. This seems like really bad QC or some inherent defect that they caught really late. Since many people seem happy with their copies I hope it is the former.

If you can find ANY rational argument against my logic above please do try.

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The D7000 can focus razor sharp.

Camera bodies aren't designed for each and every lens out there, that would be insanity, they are designed for a mount specification, that's all.

A lot of the focus issues are user related, I can attest to that since I'm one of those users who thought my body was defective too. Since the D7000 has a more complex AF-system it's harder to use, hence, it's not relevant to compare it do a D60 since it won't do what the D7000 does. What's dangerous here is that people start doing their own tests which very often results in misguided results.

I had the D300, it back-focused, I have the 24-70, it back-focused. I have the D7000, I thought i back-focused, I visited my Nikon repair guy and it was almost too perfect (using their 50mm reference lens).

AF-Adjust shouldn't be used on zoom-lenses since they're calibrated at every designated zoom-level (marked on the lense). My 24-70 only back-focused at 50-70mm, using AF-adjust just wouldn't make any sense.

This is total bull. You are speaking without thinking. Why would a brand like Nikon come out with so many great lenses & bodies without adopting the same calibration method for each lens & body ???

tozz said:

pixelresolver>

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is absolutely right & logic : all prior nikon bodies worked flawlessely EVEN with all new G lenses coming out. This is not about lower MP, simplier AF systems or what so ever. D100-D200-D300 have a very complexe AF system either, D60 & D40-D40X are lowest consumer grade Nikon's cameras and all those cameras work GREAT and accuratly with older & newer lenses, the issue rata is extremely low regarding the problems with the D7000 which was supposed to become "the best DX cam ever"...

When camera brands decided to lower the costs & the price of their high end consumer grade cameras (D7K for exemple), they delocalised a short time ago all consumer grade fabrics to China, where the labor, material & salaries are lower end.

Even a number of pro lenses are now assembled there & lots of shooters try to purchase the ones made in Japan instead of the ones made in China, because of technical issues & physical degradation. (plastic peeling inside the optics for ex.)

We now get what we pay for : $ Store cameras.

FTH said:

When camera brands decided to lower the costs & the price of their high end consumer grade cameras (D7K for exemple), they delocalised a short time ago all consumer grade fabrics in China, where the labor, material & salaries are lower end.

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I believe the bulk of Nikon consumer gear is made in Thailand, not China.

Deleted-pending said:

Even a number of pro lenses are now assembled there & lots of shooters try to purchase the ones made in Japan instead of the ones made in China, because of technical issues & physical degradation. (plastic peeling inside the optics for ex.)

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Can you give some examples of Nikon pro equipment made in China?

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Patco
A photograph is more than a bunch of pixels