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Responsibly Promoting MFT

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HappyVan said:
453C said:
We'll see.

Generally speaking, m43 Talk is full of people with a wide variety of backgrounds, and there's almost always some good information in every thread. I've gone rounds with HappyVan (Jim, is it?) a few times myself, but probably won't again, because it isn't worth the aggravation. I PMed him recently about a few things, and if he wants to continue his old ways or take a different course, it's up to him. If he goes back to the elitist, "real photographer" stuff, that'll be too bad. I'm hoping for the best, because he seems to have knowledge to share, and that's good for everyone.

Even vultures can soar. ;)
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I want M43 to succeed. Competition is a good thing. But the situation G2/GH2 is not encouraging. It is wrong for the fanboys to mislead the first time buyers.
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Sure you do, so tell me what's wrong with the GH2 and also tell me why the D5100, which is a completely different animal, is so much better. I can give you just as many reasons to buy a GH2 as you can re the D5100, probably more.
HappyVan said:
Do high-five each other when there is something to celebrate (hopefully G3/GH3). But, it is wrong to suppress analysis of the strengths and WEAKNESSES of M43 relative to other systems.
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Well conveniently enough you seem to forget to mention the weaknesses of the D5100, weaknesses in the liveview and video implementation, lens capability, ovf size etc etc. So is it ok to hoodwink "newbies" when it's a Nikon camera but not when it's an m4/3's camera? Perhaps you can explain why the GH2 received a higher rating from DPR than the D5100? are they hoodwinking newbies as well?
Please tell me, I'm all ears.

--
It's a known fact that where there's tea there's hope.
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/
 
The silence is deafening.

TEdolph
 
tedolf said:
The silence is deafening.

TEdolph
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I'm a fanboy, I must be, I post on the appropriate forum about gear I own and use as opposed to posting on the wrong forum trying to promote a camera against others I have no experience of, can't you see that Tedolph? ;).
--
It's a known fact that where there's tea there's hope.
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/
 
Tachripple said:
"Promoting" turned out to be a poor word choice in my original post. Simply meant to say that letting beginners know there is an MFT alternative they might want to consider (That's different than telling them what to buy.) would be a constructive use of energy, whereas, bantering on this forum with real or imagined trolls, IMHO, accomplishes nothing and is a waste of energy.
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When appropriate, I have no problem with that, and I thought that's more what you really meant.

I learned of m43 by visiting that exceedingly rare creature, the well stocked local camera shop. While looking for a P&S upgrade, an old friend behind the counter mentioned some m43 options, and I liked what I saw. After doing some research here and elsewhere, I bought my E-PL1. If I hadn't visited the camera shop, I doubt I would've even known about m43, because the local Best Buy may have stocked the E-PL1, but absolutely no one there knew anything about it, and frankly, they seemed more interested in pushing DSLRs than bothering with that strange Olympus thing in the corner.

I agree with some others about responding to the WHAT SHOULD I BUY?!?! threads. With few exceptions, the poster hasn't bothered to learn much of anything about their options, and they don't know what they really want anyway. Everyone is inexperienced early on, but that's no excuse for not narrowing down your options or defining your intended uses, and only the buyer can do that. Usually, the WSIBers should stick with a P&S and learn to use the canned modes; m43 would probably lead to disappointment. Search for "E-PL1 AF Lamp" for many examples.

Occasionally, the shopper/poster is simply ignorant of the m43 option (as I was), and by their intended uses and requirements, m43 or another MILC would be a good fit. I think that's an appropriate time to mention looking at m43, and that's what the OP is talking about. Point them to the four-thirds.org m43 pages and let them figure it out from there.
Tachripple said:
Of course, if "bantering" is REALLY your primary hobby interest, you might have a different opinion. :)
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Never banter with a vulture. It just frustrates you and irritates the bird.
--
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Dont_be_a_dick
 
453C said:
Dear God, make me a vulture. So I can fly far. Far far away from here.

Glad the carcass that is DSLR hasn't attracted you away from m43 Talk just yet. ;)
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... Have you seen the comparative sales figures?

Meanwhile, you have miles to go before you can consider yourself a photographer.
 
HappyVan said:
453C said:
Dear God, make me a vulture. So I can fly far. Far far away from here.

Glad the carcass that is DSLR hasn't attracted you away from m43 Talk just yet. ;)
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... Have you seen the comparative sales figures?

Meanwhile, you have miles to go before you can consider yourself a photographer.
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I've seen enough sales figures to know that m43 isn't stomping on the remains of the DSLR market, hence the silliness of my comment. "Real photographers" seem to lack a sense of humor as well as a sense of humility.

You either entirely missed the humor in my comment, or have reverted to your less than happy ways. My PM to you seems to have been completely ignored as well. Have you noticed I've actually been defending you? Guess not.

Yes, I have miles to go to develop my photographic skills, and yet, I'm still a photographer. It must be lonely in your Elite Real Photographers Clubhouse. Sadly, I don't have a macro lens to use for a group photo of your club's vast membership.
--
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Dont_be_a_dick
 
453C said:
I've seen enough sales figures to know that m43 isn't stomping on the remains of the DSLR market, hence the silliness of my comment. "Real photographers" seem to lack a sense of humor as well as a sense of humility.
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I have a sense of humility. I also know where you stand as a photog.
453C said:
You either entirely missed the humor in my comment, or have reverted to your less than happy ways. My PM to you seems to have been completely ignored as well. Have you noticed I've actually been defending you? Guess not.
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Guess you missed my ?
 
HappyVan said:
453C said:
Dear God, make me a vulture. So I can fly far. Far far away from here.

Glad the carcass that is DSLR hasn't attracted you away from m43 Talk just yet. ;)
--
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... Have you seen the comparative sales figures?

Meanwhile, you have miles to go before you can consider yourself a photographer.
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why the personal attack on 453C? Have you checked his Gallery? It is small but his Moon and Mt. Washington E-pl1 photo's are fabulous. What is your basis for saying he is not a photographer. What are your qualifications for making that judgement?

Is that really necessary in the first place? Can't you comment on somethingwithout getting personal? Everytime you do that it discredits your substantive argument.

You need to break yourself of that habit.

Hypnosis maybe?

Tedolph
 
tedolf said:
HappyVan said:
453C said:
Dear God, make me a vulture. So I can fly far. Far far away from here.

Glad the carcass that is DSLR hasn't attracted you away from m43 Talk just yet. ;)
--
Click to expand...
... Have you seen the comparative sales figures?

Meanwhile, you have miles to go before you can consider yourself a photographer.
Click to expand...
why the personal attack on 453C? Have you checked his Gallery? It is small but his Moon and Mt. Washington E-pl1 photo's are fabulous. What is your basis for saying he is not a photographer. What are your qualifications for making that judgement?

Is that really necessary in the first place? Can't you comment on somethingwithout getting personal? Everytime you do that it discredits your substantive argument.

You need to break yourself of that habit.

Hypnosis maybe?
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Oh, leave him be. I live a good life, unencumbered by such a crabby disposition. He can play whatever games elite, real photographers play, and it won't affect me. Maybe he's lonely, and this "HappyVan" interaction is as good as he gets. I sure hope that's not the case, but even if it is, it really isn't a concern of mine.

Thanks for the good thoughts, though.
--
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Dont_be_a_dick
 
HappyVan said:
453C said:
I've seen enough sales figures to know that m43 isn't stomping on the remains of the DSLR market, hence the silliness of my comment. "Real photographers" seem to lack a sense of humor as well as a sense of humility.
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I have a sense of humility. I also know where you stand as a photog.
HappyVan said:
You either entirely missed the humor in my comment, or have reverted to your less than happy ways. My PM to you seems to have been completely ignored as well. Have you noticed I've actually been defending you? Guess not.
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Guess you missed my ?
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I see you're back to ignoring whatever doesn't fit your point of view. Anyone can look at the posts in this thread and see what was intended as humor, and what was intended as insult. I think we're done here.

Good luck in life. I hope you cheer up and are nicer to people in your life than you are online.
--
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Dont_be_a_dick
 
tedolf said:
why the personal attack on 453C? Have you checked his Gallery? It is small but his Moon and Mt. Washington E-pl1 photo's are fabulous. What is your basis for saying he is not a photographer. What are your qualifications for making that judgement?
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That was a critical appraisal of 453's snapshots. Not a personal attack.
tedolf said:
Is that really necessary in the first place? Can't you comment on somethingwithout getting personal? Everytime you do that it discredits your substantive argument.

You need to break yourself of that habit.

Hypnosis maybe?
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Listen to this guy. Pot calling the kettle.

Suggest you think over what Bob said. When will you mend your ways?
 
HappyVan said:
tedolf said:
why the personal attack on 453C? Have you checked his Gallery? It is small but his Moon and Mt. Washington E-pl1 photo's are fabulous. What is your basis for saying he is not a photographer. What are your qualifications for making that judgement?
Click to expand...
That was a critical appraisal of 453's snapshots. Not a personal attack.
HappyVan said:
Is that really necessary in the first place? Can't you comment on somethingwithout getting personal? Everytime you do that it discredits your substantive argument.

You need to break yourself of that habit.

Hypnosis maybe?
Click to expand...
Listen to this guy. Pot calling the kettle.

Suggest you think over what Bob said. When will you mend your ways?
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HappyVan , I have no quarrel with you any more. You've had your say, now I ask that you please leave it alone, just as I've asked Tedolph. On numerous occasions, we haven't agreed, and I certainly haven't understood your point of view. I'm sure you can say the same of me, and I'm fine with leaving it at that.
--
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Dont_be_a_dick
 
Tim in upstate NY said:
. . . It's not that often that I tell others that they should consider m4/3 when asked for advice. I always try to determine what their needs are and respond with a suggestion that ought to satisfy their expectations. If they're going to shoot photos of their kid playing sports especially indoors like basketball for example - It's going to be an entry level DSLR and fast prime lens. If they aren't likely to ever use the PASM shooting modes or use more than the one lens that came with the camera - I often urge them to look at a P&S like the S95 for example. Occasionally someone tells me that they're dissatisfied with the low light capability or some other aspect of their P&S but don't want a 'big and heavy' DSLR which is about the only time that I even mention m4/3 as an option. For more experienced people with a photography background, I never offer much advice since they usually don't ask for it and I never tell others what they ought to do unless they ask. These companies can do their own advertising and product promotion.
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I kind of feel the same way. The ideal m4/3 user is someone with enough photography experience to understand and accept the tradeoffs. In the last year I have had a coworker and a neighbor ask me for help selecting a camera. For the coworker I recommended a DSLR, because he wants to explore a variety of photographic pursuits...including sports. For the neighbor I actually recommended m4/3 because the types of photos he described were nothing m4/3 can't do just as well and he travels a lot. I showed him my GF1 and also my Nikon D200. I also showed him two 13x19 photos of the same subject taken on the same day. You'd think I used the same camera for both, but one was out of the GF1 with the 20mm and the other out of my D200 with a 17-55mm f/2.8. He was very impressed with the size and image quality of the GF1, but he bought a Nikon D90 anyway :-p

The only person I know who has looked at my GF1 and actually has plans to buy a GF2 is a Leica shooter.
 
People ask about my E-P1 and 17mm lens and I never recommend that they buy one. I tell them it's pretty nice, but I bought it for its retro styling and because it was cheap. Mine takes nice photos, but I don't suggest anyone else buy one.

Not being M4/3 critical, but i just think they are that great. I like mine and don't really want to lug around a 5D II, but no M4/3 comes close to a 5D II use.
 
Why do you find it necessary to 'promote' micro43?

Just because you bought into it, you think everyone should? Every camera has it's strengths and weaknesses. An interested party should decide for themselves based upon their own research and needs which camera would be best for them.

If someone asks me, I tell them to check out both micro43 and NEX. If pushed, I will tell them what I think are the strengths and weaknesses of each system.

Full disclosure: I own both.

--

The greatest of mankind's criminals are those who delude themselves into thinking they have done 'the right thing.'
  • Rayna Butler
 
GodSpeaks said:
Why do you find it necessary to 'promote' micro43?

Just because you bought into it, you think everyone should? Every camera has it's strengths and weaknesses. An interested party should decide for themselves based upon their own research and needs which camera would be best for them.

If someone asks me, I tell them to check out both micro43 and NEX. If pushed, I will tell them what I think are the strengths and weaknesses of each system.

Full disclosure: I own both.
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Got to be objective
 
I fully agree with you.

I had 6 superzooms before buying a GH2.

It was on the Pana forum i accidently saw a post from someone with m43.

If i had known m43 was there and was that good, i would have bought maybe 2 superzooms less and went into m43 sooner.

So, imho, information and some good samples would be very convenient for "beginners".
 
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