iPhone. Spy-in-the-phone

Anybody who finds a phone you loose, or any pickpocket who steals it, can probably access this data fairly easily as it is not encrypted and doesn't have hidden access.
Actually it's not that easy, and the typical person who finds an iPhone (or any cell phone for that matter) is either going to keep it, sell it, or hopefully try to return it to its owner (not everyone is dishonest).
Not only that, it is fully accessible to other applications.
No it is not.
There are now several apps available which can be installed on a phone to track the user and even monitor calls.
There are no apps on an iPhone that can monitor calls.

There are some social networking apps that can share your current location (to see which friends are nearby), but the user must intentionally install and run the app and select with whom the data is shared. An app can't track random people (or even run at all) without the user's knowledge. Still worried? Don't install and run social networking apps that use location (or turn off location) and there's absolutely nothing to worry about.
This just makes that sort of thing easier. How can you be certain that such an app isn't running on your phone?
Because apps don't mysteriously install themselves. That's how. If the user didn't install it and then tap it to launch it, then it's not running. Very simple.
 
Think about it. They are being very clever since they are storing this info on your phone - which probably absolves them of any responsibility for securing the data. Now they make sure this data is stored there in such a way that applications can access it and transmit it at any time, probably without your knowledge. So they can access this data at any time without needing to store it themselves.
The info cannot be accessed by other applications. Period.

Apps are sandboxed and they can't read system files or files of other apps. The only way to read it is with physical possession of the phone and root access (jailbreaking). It is not uploaded anywhere. It's used by the phone to augment Location Services.
The problem seems to be that this database which was formerly in an fairly inaccessible system file (h-cells.plist) is now (iOS 4+) apparently in a much more accessible location (consolidated.db)
The new location simply means that it's backed up whereas it previously was not. The format of the file also changed (SQLite versus text XML). It's still inaccessible to other apps on the phone .
where apps can fairly easily read the contents of that file and possibly feed it to another computer for remote location tracking. So the info is no longer really "sandboxed".
Totally false. Apps cannot read it. It's outside of their sandbox. Period. The only way to break out of the sandbox is by jailbreaking, where anything goes.

What can be done (and with the user's explicit permission) is to determine your current location, which is very useful for a wide variety of apps. Location can also be turned off for the paranoid.
 
Google owns the world with all the info they have on us.
Google actively collects a lot of information so that they can better target ads. That's how they make their money.

If you use Gmail, your emails are read by Google's servers for ad targeting. If your emails discuss cameras, you're more likely to get camera ads. So much for email privacy.
 
The authors of the research tell us that if Apple wanted to upload the file they could. That there is no evidence that they are doing this is besides the point.
It's exactly the point.
To leave your identity to the tender mercies of stangers, assumes that no one, anywhere, at any time has ever abused this ability. I find this kind of thinking hard to swallow. If something can be abused then it will be abused and that is EXACTLY the point.*
And that a stranger can take possesion of your phone or computer, and then have full access to the information I find incredible. All without the users permission.
Just think what could happen if they took possession of your wallet!
Taking my wallet is a very bad thing. In your convuluted reasoning, because one bad thing could happen, it reduces this matter to a triviality.

At least when someone steals my wallet, I KNOW it's been stolen. In this case, we will know nothing (except for you of course, my bad).

And this unencrypted file, according to those who know more than you, is a walking breathing menace to all of our privacy...

An unencrypted file stored in iPhones and iPads constantly records a user's location data. An open source application was used to plot the location data from an iPhone belonging to a Wired.com reporter.

Update 4 p.m. PT, Thursday: Wired.com has obtained a letter from Apple explaining how and why iOS devices store geo data and transmit it to Apple.

Your iPhone or 3G-equipped iPad has been secretly recording your location for the past 10 months.

Wired.com can confirm that fact: The screengrab above shows a map containing drop pins of everywhere yours truly has been in the past year.

Software hackers Peter Warden and Alasdair Allen discovered an unencrypted file inside Apple’s iOS 4 software, storing a long list of locations accompanied with time stamps. The file is labeled “consolidated.db.”

Sharon Nissim, consumer privacy counsel of the Electronic Privacy Information Center, said it is possible Apple is violating the Wireless Communications and Public Safety Act, which allows telecom carriers to provide call information only in emergency situations.

“By asking for permission to collect location data, Apple may be trying to get around its legal obligations, by asking people to give up privacy rights they don’t even know they have,” Nissim said.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/04/iphone-tracks/
 
Google owns the world with all the info they have on us.
Google actively collects a lot of information so that they can better target ads. That's how they make their money.

If you use Gmail, your emails are read by Google's servers for ad targeting. If your emails discuss cameras, you're more likely to get camera ads. So much for email privacy.
Not that Google is a model company but they were quite open about the strings attached to their mail service. It's not the case of Apple and their consolidated file.

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The authors of the research tell us that if Apple wanted to upload the file they could. That there is no evidence that they are doing this is besides the point.
It's exactly the point.
And that a stranger can take possesion of your phone or computer, and then have full access to the information I find incredible. All without the users permission.
Just think what could happen if they took possession of your wallet! They'd have your name, address, date of birth, driver's license number, credit card numbers and likely quite a bit more, including a photo of you and possibly photos of your family as well. Very valuable information that is probably not on your computer or phone. Incredible.
It is an incredibly wrong (at many levels analogy). Most users don't know that their location history is stored in their phone.
As for the phone, put a passcode on it and enable the option to erase itself after ten failed attempts. No more full access.

You can also locate and remotely erase the iPhone, which obviously requires location to work. In fact, Find My iPhone has been used in many instances to track down the bad guys to retrieve the phone and have them arrested. Apparently, you would want that capability disabled.
Do they need to keep a log of your locations to proivde that (or another) capability?

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Think about it. They are being very clever since they are storing this info on your phone - which probably absolves them of any responsibility for securing the data. Now they make sure this data is stored there in such a way that applications can access it and transmit it at any time, probably without your knowledge. So they can access this data at any time without needing to store it themselves.
The info cannot be accessed by other applications. Period.

Apps are sandboxed and they can't read system files or files of other apps. The only way to read it is with physical possession of the phone and root access (jailbreaking). It is not uploaded anywhere. It's used by the phone to augment Location Services.
The problem seems to be that this database which was formerly in an fairly inaccessible system file (h-cells.plist) is now (iOS 4+) apparently in a much more accessible location (consolidated.db)
The new location simply means that it's backed up whereas it previously was not. The format of the file also changed (SQLite versus text XML). It's still inaccessible to other apps on the phone .
where apps can fairly easily read the contents of that file and possibly feed it to another computer for remote location tracking. So the info is no longer really "sandboxed".
Totally false. Apps cannot read it. It's outside of their sandbox. Period. The only way to break out of the sandbox is by jailbreaking, where anything goes.

What can be done (and with the user's explicit permission) is to determine your current location, which is very useful for a wide variety of apps.
Is a log of your past locations necessary for that apps to work?
Location can also be turned off for the paranoid.
Was that really necessary? How would youl like "or turned on for fcktards"?
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I'm absolutely amazed how much time some people have on their hands to be spending it endlessly typing about all this 'stuff' at an internet camera forum . . . especially talking about something that will most likely never even effect them . . . (or politics / etc). Many who are freaking out, most likely don't even own an iPhone! . . . . And IF I did have this much time on my hands . . . why on earth would I spend it at dpreview (or even on a computer on the net?). Personally I'd be on my motorcycle or an art museum or helping others . . ANYTHING besides sitting in a dark room with a computer.
Yeah, well, . I wanted, I was gonna , I should. Whatever. But I'm going to help you. Here are two points to ponder:
  • why is that you find ad hominen phallacies of every flavour in each reply of those that apparently think that all is well with Apple's conduct?
  • why are some people so upset by others having more stringent requirements about everything related to their privacy?
Hint: There is a name for the reason in sociology books.
Maybe . . get out and get proactive . . . actually doing something about the things you are typing about, rather then just typing about them at a photo site.
Sometimes publicly discussing things is doing something. Some go as far as to claim it is some sort of right.

But off topic threads in DPR!! That would be unheard of.
Seems some people are giving dpreview waaaaaaay too much power over their lives! I would be more concerned about THAT then whether someone's phone is keeping track of which tower it is getting signals from. Of course we are all different and what I think certainly does not have to be what anyone else thinks. I certainly have my own issues.

I have an iPhone btw . . . not too worried. Though I DO hate all this Big Brother crap going on.
Apparently many think that this iphone story has nothing to do with Big Brother whatsoever
But it's in MANY areas of our lives, not just on an iPhone.
Yeah and eventually we are all going to die. So?
Google owns the world with all the info they have on us.
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My Galleries: http://webs.ono.com/igonzalezbordes/index.html
 
Maybe one day it will be compulsory by law to carry a phone that will log your every move and location . Just think of the crime resolving implications .
And Big Brother will become one Big Mother !
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Roygbiv
 
I've never known a more paranoid bunch. Mark my words....NOTHING will ever come of this. Nobody will be embarrassed, have their porn searches revealed, bank info comprised, etc...

And I'd be willing to bet that almost nobody ditches their iPhone.
Of course, whatever Apple does is good for mankind, motherhood and apple pie.

--mamallama
Sherlock Holmes you're not…

Did you know that many of DPR's [and Amazon's] clients are Apple users?
How dare you insult them?

Do you go to department stores and fabricate insults for those who don't wear brown pants like yours?

(joke at 11)
 
Maybe one day it will be compulsory by law to carry a phone that will log your every move and location . Just think of the crime resolving implications .
And Big Brother will become one Big Mother !
--
Roygbiv
I favour mandatory microchipping.
--
Microchipping at birth for every newborn. Apple and Google can make millions by providing the data control center. Then there will be no dispute whether our Presidents in the future were born in the US. People like Donald Trump can just ask request a data readout. ;)

--mamallama
 
And that a stranger can take possesion of your phone or computer, and then have full access to the information I find incredible. All without the users permission.
Just think what could happen if they took possession of your wallet!
Taking my wallet is a very bad thing. In your convuluted reasoning, because one bad thing could happen, it reduces this matter to a triviality.
I'm just putting things in perspective. Worrying about a file that says where you were last year is trivial compared to losing your wallet with your driver's license and credit cards.
At least when someone steals my wallet, I KNOW it's been stolen. In this case, we will know nothing (except for you of course, my bad).
Are you actually saying that you won't notice your cell phone having been stolen? And with a good pickpocket, you won't notice your wallet missing until well after he's gone.
And this unencrypted file, according to those who know more than you, is a walking breathing menace to all of our privacy...
Ad hominem aside, they aren't saying that nor is it even close to that. Even Alex Levinson, the person who originally discovered the file and author of forensic software, thinks it's being blown out of proportion.
Update 4 p.m. PT, Thursday: Wired.com has obtained a letter from Apple explaining how and why iOS devices store geo data and transmit it to Apple.
Did you even read the letter? Obviously not, because it does not support your ridiculous ranting.

On page 2, it states (emphasis mine), This location data is collected anonymously in a form that does not personally identify you and is used by Apple and our partners and licensees to provide and improve location-based products and services. ... You may withdraw this consent at any time by not using the location-based features or turning off the Location Services setting on your iPhone.

In other words, they aren't tracking you. It's anonymized data, but if even that bothers you, it can be turned off.

The rest of the letter describes how Apple's WiFi database is maintained (which replaced SkyHook's) and that it uses anonymous data to do so. Call quality diagnostic information from random (and anonymous) users can also be sent, and only with the user's approval. The user can also opt-out of ads, or just not run apps with ads in them. Kind of hard to track someone with only anonymous data, don't you think?
Your iPhone or 3G-equipped iPad has been secretly recording your location for the past 10 months.
It has also been recording the user's browser history, call history, text message history, email history, app history and much more. So has your computer.
 
Thanks! The motorcycle ride was great!! Got out of the city . . Over 240 miles! . . Saw / experienced a lot of stuff! Then changed the oil . . washed and waxed it . . so I got a good ride in! Took my dog to the park afterward (you can relate) . . . been a pretty good day so far!

re: your comment . . . . yea my ONE post!! smile . . Took me what? 45 seconds? I think I have 14 messages in a month. You have 20 something in this one thread so far! So I'm doing ok (don't worry about me). Don't need a robot yet.

My point is . . one can post 20 something posts at dpreview on this subject . . or write a fire breathing email to Apple etc. / or your Congressman (tell him / her to investigate Apple and the reason they are doing this) . . . whomever it may be . . . get proactive in a way that can actually do something. Or one can just talk about it here with numerous posts And I stand by my other comment . . . I AM amazed that some people have as much time on their hands to spend so much time here . . . (or the desire) when there are so many other things to do. BUT as I said . . "we are all different and what I think certainly does not have to be what anyone else thinks" . . . and yea . . . I also think people give dpreview too much power. They can spend hours here with 'endless posts' and complain about (politics / Apple/ etc), or hopefully spend their time somewhere where their comments / actions really matter and where it may have REAL benefit. I can live in the problem here or get into the solution. What does one expect here? Maybe one letter to the proper place will free you up from 25 posts here, so you can enjoy other aspects of life. As you know there are many besides dpreview! Or maybe it's just 'conversation'.

IMV Apple is wrong in doing this (I look forward to their reply / but obviously they are certainly capable of spinning BS like any other large company / and they do!) . . but I would be more concerned about Facebook (though I'm not a member) / Google etc. (btw . . Google Map I find more intrusive / as well as all the other personal info Google etc has gathered on us all) . . . . as they have MUCH more important info on us then what cellphone tower my cellphone may be picking up. So yea . . I DO care about my privacy (very much) . . Help me out here, how does your "millions of people . . ." . . . comments apply (realistically) with the Apple storing cellphone tower locations on my phone? I don't have personal info on my iPhone . . . Maybe I'm missing something. I'm far from a paranoid person . . . I'm VERY street smart and I live accordingly . . . So yea I'm interested in this just not overly concerned.
I'm absolutely amazed how much time some people have on their hands to be spending it endlessly typing about all this 'stuff' at an internet camera forum . . .
Apparently you "have enough time on your hands" to make this post. Why aren't you "on your motorcycle, and art museum...?"
especially talking about something that will most likely never even effect them . . .
Millions of people have had their identies stolen. You are aware of this?
Millions of people are burgarized every day. You are aware of this?
(or politics / etc). Many who are freaking out, most likely don't even own an iPhone! . . . . And IF I did have this much time on my hands . . . why on earth would I spend it at dpreview (or even on a computer on the net?). Personally I'd be on my motorcycle or an art museum or helping others . . ANYTHING besides sitting in a dark room with a computer. Maybe . . get out and get proactive . . . actually doing something about the things you are typing about, rather then just typing about them at a photo site.
Strange as it may sound, I believe that the actions of government, large corporations, the media, etc, etc, have a profound affect on my life. Moreover I believe that the concept of "Freedom" is worth preserving. Only a society of collectively free people can be a society where individuals are free.

This thread is about one small move by one Corporation to infringe on my rights. But it is also part of a pattern of infrignement of my rights.

You don't care? It's all trivial? Tsk, tsk, maybe you should go ride your bike.

Dave
--
Knox
--
http://www.avatarphotoart.com
Alley Cats . . . Urban Tails (the book)
http://www.urbantailsbook.com

http://www.pbase.com/streetkid/galleries
 
And that a stranger can take possesion of your phone or computer, and then have full access to the information I find incredible. All without the users permission.
Just think what could happen if they took possession of your wallet!
Taking my wallet is a very bad thing. In your convuluted reasoning, because one bad thing could happen, it reduces this matter to a triviality.
I'm just putting things in perspective. Worrying about a file that says where you were last year is trivial compared to losing your wallet with your driver's license and credit cards.
At least when someone steals my wallet, I KNOW it's been stolen. In this case, we will know nothing (except for you of course, my bad).
Are you actually saying that you won't notice your cell phone having been stolen? And with a good pickpocket, you won't notice your wallet missing until well after he's gone.
And this unencrypted file, according to those who know more than you, is a walking breathing menace to all of our privacy...
Ad hominem aside, they aren't saying that nor is it even close to that. Even Alex Levinson, the person who originally discovered the file and author of forensic software, thinks it's being blown out of proportion.
Update 4 p.m. PT, Thursday: Wired.com has obtained a letter from Apple explaining how and why iOS devices store geo data and transmit it to Apple.
Did you even read the letter? Obviously not, because it does not support your ridiculous ranting.

On page 2, it states (emphasis mine), This location data is collected anonymously in a form that does not personally identify you and is used by Apple and our partners and licensees to provide and improve location-based products and services. ... You may withdraw this consent at any time by not using the location-based features or turning off the Location Services setting on your iPhone.
Here a company invades, and plants spyware on my computer, and you tell me that this letter is proof positive that they well, never ever invade my privacy?

And is this binding on all their employee's who for one reason or another wish to invade the privacy of specific parties?
In other words, they aren't tracking you. It's anonymized data, but if even that bothers you, it can be turned off.
You mean those who know about it can turn it off don't you?
The rest of the letter describes how Apple's WiFi database is maintained (which replaced SkyHook's) and that it uses anonymous data to do so. Call quality diagnostic information from random (and anonymous) users can also be sent, and only with the user's approval. The user can also opt-out of ads, or just not run apps with ads in them. Kind of hard to track someone with only anonymous data, don't you think?
Your iPhone or 3G-equipped iPad has been secretly recording your location for the past 10 months.
It has also been recording the user's browser history, call history, text message history, email history, app history and much more. So has your computer.
Essentially your point is that a comnpany which planted spyware in my apartment and person should be trusted because they say they should be trusted. And of course no large institution or government body has ever abused anyone - So why not take their word for this? After all, they have now written a letter explaining that their spyware is really harmless, and they kept it a secret from the user simply for kicks.

Dave
 
And that a stranger can take possesion of your phone or computer, and then have full access to the information I find incredible. All without the users permission.
Just think what could happen if they took possession of your wallet!
Taking my wallet is a very bad thing. In your convuluted reasoning, because one bad thing could happen, it reduces this matter to a triviality.
I'm just putting things in perspective. Worrying about a file that says where you were last year is trivial compared to losing your wallet with your driver's license and credit cards.
At least when someone steals my wallet, I KNOW it's been stolen. In this case, we will know nothing (except for you of course, my bad).
Are you actually saying that you won't notice your cell phone having been stolen? And with a good pickpocket, you won't notice your wallet missing until well after he's gone.
And this unencrypted file, according to those who know more than you, is a walking breathing menace to all of our privacy...
Ad hominem aside, they aren't saying that nor is it even close to that. Even Alex Levinson, the person who originally discovered the file and author of forensic software, thinks it's being blown out of proportion.
Update 4 p.m. PT, Thursday: Wired.com has obtained a letter from Apple explaining how and why iOS devices store geo data and transmit it to Apple.
Did you even read the letter? Obviously not, because it does not support your ridiculous ranting.

On page 2, it states (emphasis mine), This location data is collected anonymously in a form that does not personally identify you and is used by Apple and our partners and licensees to provide and improve location-based products and services. ... You may withdraw this consent at any time by not using the location-based features or turning off the Location Services setting on your iPhone.
Here a company invades, and plants spyware on my computer, and you tell me that this letter is proof positive that they well, never ever invade my privacy?

And is this binding on all their employee's who for one reason or another wish to invade the privacy of specific parties?
In other words, they aren't tracking you. It's anonymized data, but if even that bothers you, it can be turned off.
You mean those who know about it can turn it off don't you?
The rest of the letter describes how Apple's WiFi database is maintained (which replaced SkyHook's) and that it uses anonymous data to do so. Call quality diagnostic information from random (and anonymous) users can also be sent, and only with the user's approval. The user can also opt-out of ads, or just not run apps with ads in them. Kind of hard to track someone with only anonymous data, don't you think?
Your iPhone or 3G-equipped iPad has been secretly recording your location for the past 10 months.
It has also been recording the user's browser history, call history, text message history, email history, app history and much more. So has your computer.
Essentially your point is that a comnpany which planted spyware in my apartment and person should be trusted because they say they should be trusted. And of course no large institution or government body has ever abused anyone - So why not take their word for this? After all, they have now written a letter explaining that their spyware is really harmless, and they kept it a secret from the user simply for kicks.
Dave, you should never debate Apple morals with an Apple apologist. To them, Apple will never do anything wrong or bad.

--mamallama
 
  • why is that you find ad hominen phallacies of every flavour in each reply of those that apparently think that all is well with Apple's conduct?
you must be thinking of someone else . . . I am an Apple user yea, but FAR from an Apple 'worshipper'. Funny how some people always say what you said, if we just have a view as Apple users.
  • why are some people so upset by others having more stringent requirements about everything related to their privacy?
I just don't see this particular issue as one that overly concerns me.
Hint: There is a name for the reason in sociology books.

Sometimes publicly discussing things is doing something. Some go as far as to claim it is some sort of right.
sure . . to a point.
Yeah and eventually we are all going to die. So?
uh . . yea . . . what the f*ck are you talking about?

--
Knox
--
http://www.avatarphotoart.com
Alley Cats . . . Urban Tails (the book)
http://www.urbantailsbook.com

http://www.pbase.com/streetkid/galleries
 
  • why is that you find ad hominen phallacies of every flavour in each reply of those that apparently think that all is well with Apple's conduct?
you must be thinking of someone else . .
Your remark about people who is concerned about the storing of locations in their phone as having too much time is presumptuous and belittling. And ad hominem.
I am an Apple user yea, but FAR from an Apple 'worshipper'.
Good for you, but beyond the point.
Funny how some people always say what you said, if we just have a view as Apple users.
wasn't referring to apple users, but those who think that apple's storing locations is kosher.
  • why are some people so upset by others having more stringent requirements about everything related to their privacy?
I just don't see this particular issue as one that overly concerns me.
Hint: There is a name for the reason in sociology books.

Sometimes publicly discussing things is doing something. Some go as far as to claim it is some sort of right.
sure . . to a point.
Please, why don't you share which point is appropriate for us?
Yeah and eventually we are all going to die. So?
uh . . yea . . . what the f*ck are you talking about?
It's an ironic way of showing my disagreement with what I understand you were suggesting i.e why worry about Apple's fiasco when there are "MANY areas" where privacy is in jeopardy.
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My Galleries: http://webs.ono.com/igonzalezbordes/index.html
 
Dave, you should never debate Apple morals with an Apple apologist. To them, Apple will never do anything wrong or bad.
This action on Apples part may very well turn out to be legal. After all, if you let crooks write the laws, they will legalize anything that is profitable to them. Just as Sub-prime loans suddenly became legal, no doubt Apple's small print about "agreeing to let them collect data (an accurate paraphrase)" may be construed by the Courts as a right to do this. On the other hand there are some legal experts who think Apple is on questionable legal grounds.

Gaussian blur seems to believe that because there are worse things done in the world, or that it's is possible (now that its no longer a secret; Big deal. As if to say that a large corporation lying and spying is par for the course, and therefore just peachy.

He seems to feel that the crooks who have now been caught in their criminality, should be defacto trusted, simply because they tell us they should be trusted. Ironic, when we know they didn't inform us of this in the first place.

Now as it happens, I love my Mac, what does this have to do with Apple? I couldn't have a Mac unless they lie to us? :(

Dave
--mamallama
 
yawn . . . . if you REALLY feel the need to keep this going, go ahead (w/o me). Obviously we are having a series of misunderstandings on both sides and I could care less to try to clear it up further, as I have a feeling it's just going to continue ad infinitum as things tend to do around here.
  • why is that you find ad hominen phallacies of every flavour in each reply of those that apparently think that all is well with Apple's conduct?
you must be thinking of someone else . .
Your remark about people who is concerned about the storing of locations in their phone as having too much time is presumptuous and belittling. And ad hominem.
I am an Apple user yea, but FAR from an Apple 'worshipper'.
Good for you, but beyond the point.
Funny how some people always say what you said, if we just have a view as Apple users.
wasn't referring to apple users, but those who think that apple's storing locations is kosher.
  • why are some people so upset by others having more stringent requirements about everything related to their privacy?
I just don't see this particular issue as one that overly concerns me.
Hint: There is a name for the reason in sociology books.

Sometimes publicly discussing things is doing something. Some go as far as to claim it is some sort of right.
sure . . to a point.
Please, why don't you share which point is appropriate for us?
Yeah and eventually we are all going to die. So?
uh . . yea . . . what the f*ck are you talking about?
It's an ironic way of showing my disagreement with what I understand you were suggesting i.e why worry about Apple's fiasco when there are "MANY areas" where privacy is in jeopardy.
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My Galleries: http://webs.ono.com/igonzalezbordes/index.html
--
Knox
--
http://www.avatarphotoart.com
Alley Cats . . . Urban Tails (the book)
http://www.urbantailsbook.com

http://www.pbase.com/streetkid/galleries
 

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