iPhone. Spy-in-the-phone

...the consumer protection agency was gutted in the 80's. Before this time even the idea that one can call a sales line that answers in 1 minute but the return/"customer service" line is a 1 hour hold was unfathomable.

Chato said:

Acquiring data by spying on me is immoral. It's also recognised that if done by conventional means, illegal. Why should it be considered ok if done by respectable companies?

There's nothing about this question that is a "tin foil matter." They have the ability to take all this information anytime they want to. Who gave them permission to have this ability?

"If something can be abused, then it will be abused," which is why, at least here in the US and many other countries, it requires going before a Judge before you can spy on me.

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--

There is simply too much beauty in the world to photograph it all, but I'm trying.

Chato said:

CFynn said:

Think about it. They are being very clever since they are storing this info on your phone - which probably absolves them of any responsibility for securing the data. Now they make sure this data is stored there in such a way that applications can access it and transmit it at any time, probably without your knowledge. So they can access this data at any time without needing to store it themselves.

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Chato said:

Chato said:

You "agreed" to this access when you agreed to Apple's terms of service - probably by clicking on something the first time you used the phone.

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Chato said:

You have to remember that illegal agreements are not binding.

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Chato said:

Nothing in my acceptance of terms of use would allow "implanting" spyware on my telephone. And that is all that these files are.

Dave

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Yes, but the data is stored on your mobile device - which is now more of a computer than a telephone. Apple, or some other party, may be able to access it but, unless you do a backup through iTunes, it may never actually be stored - except fleetingly in memory - on any device belonging to them. Could be very difficult to prove anything. Since the data is on your computer not theirs I'll bet that you are legally responsible for the security of this data, not them.

Anybody who finds a phone you loose, or any pickpocket who steals it, can probably access this data fairly easily as it is not encrypted and doesn't have hidden access. Not only that, it is fully accessible to other applications. There are now several apps available which can be installed on a phone to track the user and even monitor calls. This just makes that sort of thing easier. How can you be certain that such an app isn't running on your phone?

If you want to use a smart phone and are concerned about this sort of thing, get a phone that runs open source Linux and take control. You may loose some user goodies but personally I don't want a phone that is locked in to Apple, Microsoft, Google, RIM or a cellular phone company.

gaussian blur said:

CFynn said:

Think about it. They are being very clever since they are storing this info on your phone - which probably absolves them of any responsibility for securing the data. Now they make sure this data is stored there in such a way that applications can access it and transmit it at any time, probably without your knowledge. So they can access this data at any time without needing to store it themselves.

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The info cannot be accessed by other applications. Period.

Apps are sandboxed and they can't read system files or files of other apps. The only way to read it is with physical possession of the phone and root access (jailbreaking). It is not uploaded anywhere. It's used by the phone to augment Location Services.

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The problem seems to be that this database which was formerly in an fairly inaccessible system file (h-cells.plist) is now (iOS 4+) apparently in a much more accessible location (consolidated.db) - where apps can fairly easily read the contents of that file and possibly feed it to another computer for remote location tracking. So the info is no longer really "sandboxed".

lanef said:

The corporate lords are running our lives, we have been handcuffed and delivered to the petrol magnates (look at the petrol price) and the banks, none of us and no politician can do anything about it. Those who run the finance world and the energy industry run the world.

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And half the readers of these forums are probably already pretty-well handcuffed to Canon or Nikon through their "investment" in photo equipment. The way things are going most cameras will probably soon have built-in GPS and be connected to the net through the cell phone network and then we will have to worry about them as well as our iPhone.

mamallama said:

lanef said:

glasswave said:

....the "I have nothing to hide, thus anyone can have any of my private data & do anything with it they like" misses the boat by a mile.

What about when they sell you whereabouts info to the health insurance company who denies you coverage because you went to McDonald's too much or when they deny you internet access at one company because you made a stink about not getting the deal you were offered at another?

It's this kind of complacency that is letting the corporate overlords run our country into the toilet.

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The corporate lords are running our lives, we have been handcuffed and delivered to the petrol magnates (look at the petrol price) and the banks, none of us and no politician can do anything about it. Those who run the finance world and the energy industry run the world.

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Aren't you just saying the the wealth distribution is getting to one sided and those with most of the money is gaining more and more control on the rest of us. It didn't help in the US when the Supreme Court ruled that corporations can pour unlimited money into campaigns to elect their lackeys.

Hey, Joe the plumber, it's time to redistribute the wealth.

--mamallama

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Big corporations have the money and the power, if something new becomes too big, they just rush to acquire a big part of it and to have some control.
"Goldman Sachs Invests in Facebook at $50 Billion Valuation"

mamallama said:

igb said:

mamallama said:

Chato said:

mamallama said:

Chato said:

Cell phone companies are required by law to maintain a log of your calls. Nothing in the law requires a file to be installed on your cell phone nor does the law require that this file be automatically stored on your computer - In both cases, invisible to the user files. This file is a menace to the user.

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I think the question is, did you sign away your rights to allow the collected data to be used like this? Not that the law requires a file stored on your cell phone.

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Nothing in my contract even hints at such an abuse. What about yours?

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I really don't know if there's an implied statement in the contract that grant that abuse. In our eagerness to use such high technology, like cell phones and Facebook and proudly posting our personal images all over the internet, we just click on the "Accept" button and move on. I just wonder why there aren't tons of lawsuits to stop this practice if the abuse were so illegal and abusive.

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Because up to now it was basically unknown to the public?

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When do you suspect that we will see a rash of lawsuits now that it's front page news?

--mamallama

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It's not fornt page news but, yes, if the story caught sufficient pubilc and media attention, I would expect some bureaucrat to try to capitalize on it -or a law firm trying to make an honest buck- by suing Apple.

You wont see dozens of suits though because the average person does not have enough resources to stand a process. That is why the system works.
--
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My Galleries: http://webs.ono.com/igonzalezbordes/index.html

CFynn said:

lanef said:

The corporate lords are running our lives, we have been handcuffed and delivered to the petrol magnates (look at the petrol price) and the banks, none of us and no politician can do anything about it. Those who run the finance world and the energy industry run the world.

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And half the readers of these forums are probably already pretty-well handcuffed to Canon or Nikon through their "investment" in photo equipment. The way things are going most cameras will probably soon have built-in GPS and be connected to the net through the cell phone network and then we will have to worry about them as well as our iPhone.

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You have a choice if you want to use Nikon, Canon, iphone or none of them, but I have no choice when using petrol in my car and here Petrol price jumps up to 10 cents a litre just before Easter or any long weekend, with the banks again, I have no choice, my salary is credited directly and whatever charges they impose, they can jack up the interest of your mortgage at the drop of a hat, the political leaders can open their big mouth and scream but they can do nothing about it. Profiteering for all to see and to endure.

mcshan said:

mcshan wrote:

This is a very serious problem and I am sure they have secretly hired thousands of people to keep track of all of us and the information our gadgets crap out. Go to the bathroom or meet a secret lover and these evil people..KNOW about it.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echelon_%28signals_intelligence%29

Your info about thousands of people is correct.

BTW you might also enjoy some articles from fringe sites :

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm

http://articles.cnn.com/...federal-court-eavesdropping-program?_s=PMOLITICS

I picked them randomly with a 0.1s goggle search, you can find plenty of them if you're interested, which of course you aren't. Laughing histerically is always better than acknowledging the fear, eh?
--
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My Galleries: http://webs.ono.com/igonzalezbordes/index.html

SeeRoy said:

iPhone. Spy-in-the-phone

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SpyPhone

--
Iván József Balázs
(Hungary)

I've never known a more paranoid bunch. Mark my words....NOTHING will ever come of this. Nobody will be embarrassed, have their porn searches revealed, bank info comprised, etc...

And I'd be willing to bet that almost nobody ditches their iPhone.

Thank you. What is everyone guilty of to make them so paranoid? It really is funny reading some of this stuff. Hope they are keeping their eyes on the grassy knoll and Area 51.

I hope Bigfoot has an iPhone so that they can locate him.

I'm absolutely amazed how much time some people have on their hands to be spending it endlessly typing about all this 'stuff' at an internet camera forum . . . especially talking about something that will most likely never even effect them . . . (or politics / etc). Many who are freaking out, most likely don't even own an iPhone! . . . . And IF I did have this much time on my hands . . . why on earth would I spend it at dpreview (or even on a computer on the net?). Personally I'd be on my motorcycle or an art museum or helping others . . ANYTHING besides sitting in a dark room with a computer. Maybe . . get out and get proactive . . . actually doing something about the things you are typing about, rather then just typing about them at a photo site. Seems some people are giving dpreview waaaaaaay too much power over their lives! I would be more concerned about THAT then whether someone's phone is keeping track of which tower it is getting signals from. Of course we are all different and what I think certainly does not have to be what anyone else thinks. I certainly have my own issues.

I have an iPhone btw . . . not too worried. Though I DO hate all this Big Brother crap going on. But it's in MANY areas of our lives, not just on an iPhone. Google owns the world with all the info they have on us.
--
Knox
--
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Alley Cats . . . Urban Tails (the book)
http://www.urbantailsbook.com

http://www.pbase.com/streetkid/galleries

knox said:

I have an iPhone btw . . . not too worried.

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I have an iphone 4 and I love it, I have more than 100 apps on it and they are all very usefull to me and I have "Location Services" always on and enjoy my GPS and Tom Tom navigation on it. As I am someone who enjoys travelling quite a bit, so the travelling apps & location services are very valuable to me.

http://www.pbase.com/bingard/galleries
http://www.flickr.com/photos/38519080@N00/sets/72157594443652688/

igb said:

Your info about thousands of people is correct.

BTW you might also enjoy some articles from fringe sites :

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm

http://articles.cnn.com/...federal-court-eavesdropping-program?_s=PMOLITICS

I picked them randomly with a 0.1s goggle search, you can find plenty of them if you're interested, which of course you aren't. Laughing histerically is always better than acknowledging the fear, eh?

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They would never dream of abusing this information. Mostly they consist of Mother Teresa clones, recruited from the streets of Bombay...

Dave

igb said:

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My Galleries: http://webs.ono.com/igonzalezbordes/index.html

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knox said:

I'm absolutely amazed how much time some people have on their hands to be spending it endlessly typing about all this 'stuff' at an internet camera forum . . .

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Apparently you "have enough time on your hands" to make this post. Why aren't you "on your motorcycle, and art museum...?"

Member said:

especially talking about something that will most likely never even effect them . . .

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Millions of people have had their identies stolen. You are aware of this?
Millions of people are burgarized every day. You are aware of this?

Member said:

(or politics / etc). Many who are freaking out, most likely don't even own an iPhone! . . . . And IF I did have this much time on my hands . . . why on earth would I spend it at dpreview (or even on a computer on the net?). Personally I'd be on my motorcycle or an art museum or helping others . . ANYTHING besides sitting in a dark room with a computer. Maybe . . get out and get proactive . . . actually doing something about the things you are typing about, rather then just typing about them at a photo site.

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Strange as it may sound, I believe that the actions of government, large corporations, the media, etc, etc, have a profound affect on my life. Moreover I believe that the concept of "Freedom" is worth preserving. Only a society of collectively free people can be a society where individuals are free.

This thread is about one small move by one Corporation to infringe on my rights. But it is also part of a pattern of infrignement of my rights.

You don't care? It's all trivial? Tsk, tsk, maybe you should go ride your bike.

Dave

lanef said:

mamallama said:

lanef said:

glasswave said:

....the "I have nothing to hide, thus anyone can have any of my private data & do anything with it they like" misses the boat by a mile.

What about when they sell you whereabouts info to the health insurance company who denies you coverage because you went to McDonald's too much or when they deny you internet access at one company because you made a stink about not getting the deal you were offered at another?

It's this kind of complacency that is letting the corporate overlords run our country into the toilet.

Click to expand...

The corporate lords are running our lives, we have been handcuffed and delivered to the petrol magnates (look at the petrol price) and the banks, none of us and no politician can do anything about it. Those who run the finance world and the energy industry run the world.

Click to expand...

Aren't you just saying the the wealth distribution is getting to one sided and those with most of the money is gaining more and more control on the rest of us. It didn't help in the US when the Supreme Court ruled that corporations can pour unlimited money into campaigns to elect their lackeys.

Hey, Joe the plumber, it's time to redistribute the wealth.

--mamallama

Click to expand...

Big corporations have the money and the power, if something new becomes too big, they just rush to acquire a big part of it and to have some control.
"Goldman Sachs Invests in Facebook at $50 Billion Valuation"

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That doesn't bother me as it's a common type financial investment. What bothers me are things like what Koch Industries and the Koch brothers are doing by using their inherited wealth to control the government officials and the government process.

--mamallama

brent collins said:

I've never known a more paranoid bunch. Mark my words....NOTHING will ever come of this. Nobody will be embarrassed, have their porn searches revealed, bank info comprised, etc...

And I'd be willing to bet that almost nobody ditches their iPhone.

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Of course, whatever Apple does is good for mankind, motherhood and apple pie.

--mamallama

Chato said:

The authors of the research tell us that if Apple wanted to upload the file they could. That there is no evidence that they are doing this is besides the point.

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It's exactly the point.

Chato said:

And that a stranger can take possesion of your phone or computer, and then have full access to the information I find incredible. All without the users permission.

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Just think what could happen if they took possession of your wallet! They'd have your name, address, date of birth, driver's license number, credit card numbers and likely quite a bit more, including a photo of you and possibly photos of your family as well. Very valuable information that is probably not on your computer or phone. Incredible.

As for the phone, put a passcode on it and enable the option to erase itself after ten failed attempts. No more full access.

You can also locate and remotely erase the iPhone, which obviously requires location to work. In fact, Find My iPhone has been used in many instances to track down the bad guys to retrieve the phone and have them arrested. Apparently, you would want that capability disabled.

mamallama said:

mamallama said:

mamallama said:

Think about it. They are being very clever since they are storing this info on your phone - which probably absolves them of any responsibility for securing the data. Now they make sure this data is stored there in such a way that applications can access it and transmit it at any time, probably without your knowledge. So they can access this data at any time without needing to store it themselves.

Click to expand...

The info cannot be accessed by other applications. Period.

Apps are sandboxed and they can't read system files or files of other apps. The only way to read it is with physical possession of the phone and root access (jailbreaking). It is not uploaded anywhere. It's used by the phone to augment Location Services.

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Not Quite. This report says, "it has been revealed that Apple's iPhones and Google's Android phones regularly transmit location data back to those two companies".

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They don't say what's in this mystery non-specific 'location data.'

What is probably being sent is WiFi network location data so that the phones can geolocate better, data which is completely unrelated to the phone or its owner, the same data that used to be provided by SkyHook Wireless who obtained it by driving around and logging the networks and is now maintained by Apple. It's nothing more than a database of WiFi networks.

As for the file itself, there has been no evidence that it is sent anywhere. None whatsoever.

Not everything is nefarious and evil.

mamallama said:

And, "Forensics investigators have long been able to pull lists of contacts, call records and text messages from cellphones".

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They can do that with your desktop or laptop computer too. Why no concern there?

If investigators are analyzing your phone or your computer for that information, you have more serious problems to worry about.

mamallama said:

Looks like the info can be accessed by other applications.

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No it cannot .

There is no way any application can access anything outside of its own sandbox. Period. The only way to read that log file is with a jailbroken iPhone where literally anything goes, good or bad.