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Instead of Swivel Screens, I want Wi-Fi LiveView

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gonzalu

gonzalu

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How about it Nikon? Want to be innovative? EVERYONE has an iPhone or an iPad or an iPod Touch or a Xoom or a HTC or a Motorola or a Blackberry Storm or a whatever... Nintendo DS. EVERYTHING has built in Wi-Fi.. you even make a few point and shoots with it. Heck my wife loves the Wi-Fi instant upload to her galleries...

Anyway, here it is, forget the silly fragile swivel screens... give me more wi-fi. Give me bluetooth. Brodcast your Liveview via Wi-Fi, make an app or let the community make an app to receive it. Make it standards based like HTTP Live Streaming or Emblaze.

I love cables when necessary (10Gb/s via Thunderbolt or 10GigE) but for other things, cables are only useful for charging... and even then, Tesla had a way around it :-)

Anyway, we have been waiting long for a new D400 or a D4 and frankly, I want a reward for the wait. I now need 24MP in crop sensor or 40MP in full frame... people are requesting posters and I can make Epson 30x20s for $10 ... so blow us away, no marginal stuff

...and please, no more swivel screens, make it wireless. :-)
--
Manny
http://www.pbase.com/gonzalu/
http://www.thrustimages.com/
FCAS Member - http://fcasmembers.com/
 
I hope you are wrong on all counts ... and if you can't make a simple 20x30 print with the camera that you have today, something is wrong.

20x30 prints are obtainable from a 4meg camera if you start out with a quality print for that matter I have created them with less megapixels and the quality is excellent.

The quality of cameras that Nikon has in its lineup at the present time is more than enough for any photographer on this planet.

However for techie people that might not be the case.

Photography is about creating and capturing specials milliseconds of time, its not about worrying about the lastest or greatest unreal cameras that may never hit the market place.

--

We suffer from so little individualism, we are so quick to replicate rather than innovate.
 
NaturePhotoman said:
I hope you are wrong on all counts ... and if you can't make a simple 20x30 print with the camera that you have today, something is wrong.
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You can make a simple print, but some of us want complex prints. :-)

I've made lots of 24x36 prints on my Epson 7800 from 12 mp images, but more detail would be nice. Currently, I'm stitching 25 images together for marcro shots (using a view camera, EL Nikkor 105mm lens, and a D700). There is a big big difference between a 24x36 print done from 80mp and one done from 12mp.
NaturePhotoman said:
20x30 prints are obtainable from a 4meg camera if you start out with a quality print for that matter I have created them with less megapixels and the quality is excellent.
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Depends on the subject. When detail is important to the image, 4mp just doesn't cut it.
NaturePhotoman said:
The quality of cameras that Nikon has in its lineup at the present time is more than enough for any photographer on this planet.
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Which is why no one shoots with Hasselblads, and why Ansel Adams and Edward Weston always used 35mm.
NaturePhotoman said:
However for techie people that might not be the case.
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Or commercial advertising photographers, or landscape photographers, or...
NaturePhotoman said:
Photography is about creating and capturing specials milliseconds of time, its not about worrying about the lastest or greatest unreal cameras that may never hit the market place.
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What are you doing on a forum about cameras, in a thread about future models, rather than out shooting? ;-)
NaturePhotoman said:
We suffer from so little individualism, we are so quick to replicate rather than innovate.
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There is nothing new under the sun. ;-)

--
Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html
 
NaturePhotoman said:
I hope you are wrong on all counts ... and if you can't make a simple 20x30 print with the camera that you have today, something is wrong.

20x30 prints are obtainable from a 4meg camera if you start out with a quality print for that matter I have created them with less megapixels and the quality is excellent.
Click to expand...
But only if you want to view the image from no closer than 10 feet away. 4 MP does not have the detail for normal viewing distance from a 20" x 30" print. You'll end up with no detail, everything soft.
NaturePhotoman said:
The quality of cameras that Nikon has in its lineup at the present time is more than enough for any photographer on this planet.

However for techie people that might not be the case.

Photography is about creating and capturing specials milliseconds of time, its not about worrying about the lastest or greatest unreal cameras that may never hit the market place.
Click to expand...
 
I'll settle for bluetooth for remote control. Probably too slow for viewing. Wifi - already find too many competing routers for the channels!
 
the pixels around the paper infinitely, and you also would get infinitely dull results. I print 30x20 posters on Epson 7800 from my D2Xs and D3 and they look absolutely terrific. I simply know it can be better :-) If you don;t want it, so be it, I am glad you;re satisfied with your results.

However, I encourage you to sometime in your life have the privilege of seeing an Ansel Adams PRINTED ORIGINAL by the master himself... You will simply NOT BELIEVE that it can be a silver print. YOU will think it was painted! First time I saw it, it literally changed my life... I saw what could be achieved.

He shot a lot on 8x10 film... Robin, help me here, if scanned, what resolution would that yield? 10 GigaPixels?

This is a good example of the power of extra room in your capture

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/Cramer.shtml

--
Manny
http://www.pbase.com/gonzalu/
http://www.thrustimages.com/
FCAS Member - http://fcasmembers.com/
 
This thread is being jacked by an almost "after-thought" about printing.

Its originally about wi-fi.

Wi-fi has some specific meanings and it also is used generally to mean "wireless with high band width" (fast downloading).

I would love to have a Wi-Fi screen instead of one that angles. Then you could either remove the screen or perhaps just have a second screen for when youre not next to the camera.

Of course...... it always comes back to Live View mode. And I hate live view.

--

Sincerely,

GlobalGuyUSA
 
...I can assure you that flip-out screens are most certainly not silly...unless they're designed like Nikon's first one was.

For a truly creative photographer, this type of screen makes many types of shots far easier.

What does Gee-Wiz Wi-Fi do for creativity? You want to be able to remove the screen completely?

Sorry, I don't get that.

--
Tom, Ohio USA
http://www.flickr.com/photos/zuikosan/
http://tbower.zenfolio.com/

'One should not LIVE in the past, but one should never FORGET the past'.

'Did you ever get the feeling that the world was a tuxedo and you were a pair of brown shoes?'
---George Gobel, 1969

"You know you can't please everyone so you got to please yourself"
---Rick Nelson
 
tbower said:
...I can assure you that flip-out screens are most certainly not silly...unless they're designed like Nikon's first one was.

For a truly creative photographer, this type of screen makes many types of shots far easier.

What does Gee-Wiz Wi-Fi do for creativity? You want to be able to remove the screen completely?

Sorry, I don't get that.
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Flip-out screens are silly. They lower the durability of the camera, and make it more difficult to weatherproof. For those losses you get a tiny view of the composition that is too small to verify that focus is accurate or see details in the scene. To use it, the camera must be far enough from the photographer's face so the eye can focus on it (or reading glasses are required). This makes it difficult to hold the camera in a stable position.

So, the shooting technique used with a flip screen is most suitable to a point-and-shoot style with a high shutter speed. A PJ trying to shoot over a crowd, might find this useful, but most pros and serious amateurs would not. This is mainly a style for snapshooters.

In theory, you could use a flip screen for a tripod shot at an odd position, such as very low to the ground. However, you would be much better served by a WiFi powered screen that is larger (such as an iPad) where the photographer can be in a more comfortable position, and view a much larger image.
--
Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html
 
"You want to be able to remove the screen completely?"

I don't want to remove the screen, in fact I wouldn't care at all if it flips out.

What I want is to be able to have a second screen and/or monitor viewing the content wirelessly. Which I assure you is extremely practical, unlike just flipping out a screen, whcih is already in front of your nose to begin with (self-portraits excluded. :-P).

--

Sincerely,

GlobalGuyUSA
 
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1034&thread=38258712&page=2

reminds me the debate about Live view 2 years ago : no so called "professionals" liked it, now every landscape or studio photog needs it...

Dont forget that in the older days medium format (& some 35mm slr) were equiped with several kinds of matte screens, finders etc... This is nothing new & eveything that may bring ease of use & new angle possibilities is very welcome to me.
 
Robin Casady said:
Flip-out screens are silly. They lower the durability of the camera,
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No flip-out screens is silly. The lack of this feature lowers the durability of the camera (because when the camera is not used a swiveling screen can be stored with the lcd facing in, significantly lowering the probability of breaking the screen).
Robin Casady said:
and make it more difficult to weatherproof.
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Barely
Robin Casady said:
For those losses you get a tiny view of the composition that is too small to verify that focus is accurate or see details in the scene.
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Of course one has to trust AF. After all that's also the case for optical viewfinders: they are optimized for brightness, not contrast, and do not allow for very fine manual focusing. Although a swiveling screen compensate for this by allowing to see a magnified portion of the screen where the focus is made.
Robin Casady said:
To use it, the camera must be far enough from the photographer's face so the eye can focus on it (or reading glasses are required). This makes it difficult to hold the camera in a stable position.
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Of course, the swiveling screen is not for all pictures. But it may be invaluable in specific circumstances.
Robin Casady said:
So, the shooting technique used with a flip screen is most suitable to a point-and-shoot style with a high shutter speed.
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LOL! That's why Nikon should not sell these fast lenses. They allow for higher shutter speeds. And Nikon should remove these high ISO settings while at it. More seriously, yes, one needs higher shutter speed. And? What's wrong with that? I'd rather have a chance to take the pic with a high shutter speed than no pic at all.
Robin Casady said:
A PJ
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or a wedding photographer,
Robin Casady said:
trying to shoot over a crowd, might find this useful,
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Anybody who sometimes shoots over a crowd, around an obstacle, on a tripod (if you don't know why you just don't know how how to use the feature to its full potential)
Robin Casady said:
but most pros and serious amateurs would not.
Click to expand...
Most pros and serious amateurs want tools that offer maximum creativity.
Robin Casady said:
This is mainly a style for snapshooters.
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Pros and serious pros don't care whether the looks, only about the results. Who cares if one looks like she or he is shooting like a snapshooter?
Robin Casady said:
In theory, you could use a flip screen for a tripod shot at an odd position, such as very low to the ground. However, you would be much better served by a WiFi powered screen that is larger (such as an iPad) where the photographer can be in a more comfortable position, and view a much larger image.
Click to expand...
Except that I carry the lcd screen on the back of the camera everywhere where the camera goes (obviously). And most people don't have room for an ipad in their photo gear bag.

This being said your post summarizes well why many people are against swivelling screen: it is truly about looks, a snobbish attitude out of concern that one may mistake a photog for an amateur P&S shooter if his camera has a swivellling screen.

--
Thierry
 
Here again are all the arguments against swivel screens invented by those who couldn't bear to use or be seen with anything so amateur.

But to go through them again
gonzalu said:
1. Swivel screens are vulnerable.
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When folded flat they're no more vulnerable. And they protect the screen when folded face inwards.
gonzalu said:
2. They're bulky.
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Not these days.
gonzalu said:
3. You can't hold the camera steady when using live view.
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You can hold a camera just as steady at your waist as you can at your eye. And if you do need to hold it somewhere less steady for a special effect, you can up the shutter speed.
gonzalu said:
4. A remote live view would be better.
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There's no reason not to have both if you want a remote screen.
gonzalu said:
5. A swivel screen camera would be less professional.
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There's no such thing as a professional camera, just professional photographers. And it's my guess a true professional (and any true photographer) is much more interested in the images he produces than the image he cuts.

There's no doubt that there are many, probably a majority, of occasions when the viewfinder is the best option. And there are areas of photography where the swivel screen is unlikely to be used much, such as sports and news.

But those who think there's no place for swivel screens either haven't used one or are more interested in how professional they look and feel than the images they produce.
--
Rens

There are optimists and there are realists
 
I like the idea of WiFi or Bluetooth for remote, or not so remote monitors. I'm a bit on the heavy side, and I'd love to be able to get the camera down low, or into contorted posiitions,(especially for macro) and use live view in a comfortable position. A viewer like a pirate's eyepatch might look geeky, but it sure would be convenient, and in bright sunshine, too.

Great idea - don't let it get lost in the hi-res sensor request, which is something else entirely. Not bad, just unrelated, at least for my purposes.
 
Rens said:
But those who think there's no place for swivel screens either haven't used one or are more interested in how professional they look and feel than the images they produce.
Click to expand...
My first DSLR was the Olympus E-300, derisively called "the brick with a lens" because it lacked the traditional prism hump due to an innovative side-swinging mirror....i.e. it didn't look like an slr...didn't look like a "professional" camera.

Sales of the camera were not stellar, due in part to the above. I was looking through my archives recently and came upon several photos shot with that unprofessional-looking camera...they were damn good.

--
Tom, Ohio USA
http://www.flickr.com/photos/zuikosan/
http://tbower.zenfolio.com/

'One should not LIVE in the past, but one should never FORGET the past'.

'Did you ever get the feeling that the world was a tuxedo and you were a pair of brown shoes?'
---George Gobel, 1969

"You know you can't please everyone so you got to please yourself"
---Rick Nelson
 
--
Tom, Ohio USA
http://www.flickr.com/photos/zuikosan/
http://tbower.zenfolio.com/

'One should not LIVE in the past, but one should never FORGET the past'.

'Did you ever get the feeling that the world was a tuxedo and you were a pair of brown shoes?'
---George Gobel, 1969

"You know you can't please everyone so you got to please yourself"
---Rick Nelson
 
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