Battery life and shutter lag comparisons - Mirrorless vs. DSLR

I'm a longtime film photographer finally ready to enter the area beyond digital point-and-shoot.

My main concern has always been the speed (or lack thereof) of digitals.

I'm a committed manual-focuser and hyperfocal-focuser who does not use autofocus a lot. I'm also spoiled by mechanical cameras that don't have batteries.

I'm very concerned with shutter lag and battery-life.

What are my best bets as far as entry-level battery life and lack of non-autofocus-based shutter lag?

Common sense would dictate that anything with an EVF would have worse battery life than a mirrored (SLR) camera, right?

How does shutter lag (actual delay in pressing the shutter versus the recording) compare between DSLR and mirrorless?

Thanks a bunch,
Noah

Can't answer your question about battery life with mirrorless cams beyond point & shoots, but battery life on my Canon 7D - with both AF and mostly IS lenses - is phenomenal. It's not been a concern in the least.

Needless to say, you won't notice any shutter lag at all on a DSLR if you're focusing manually - shutter release will be so short as to appear to be instantaneous. Except for very low light where AF is challenged, I don't notice shutter lag when using AF.

Mark

kidblue said:

I'm a longtime film photographer finally ready to enter the area beyond digital point-and-shoot.

My main concern has always been the speed (or lack thereof) of digitals.

I'm a committed manual-focuser and hyperfocal-focuser who does not use autofocus a lot. I'm also spoiled by mechanical cameras that don't have batteries.

I'm very concerned with shutter lag and battery-life.

What are my best bets as far as entry-level battery life and lack of non-autofocus-based shutter lag?

Common sense would dictate that anything with an EVF would have worse battery life than a mirrored (SLR) camera, right?

How does shutter lag (actual delay in pressing the shutter versus the recording) compare between DSLR and mirrorless?

Thanks a bunch,
Noah

Click to expand...

I think that you may be concentrating on the wrong things. It would help if you told us what sort of things you shoot.

Battery life on a DSLR is at least 20 rolls of film. Battery life on a mirrorless camera is typically 10 rolls of film. All serious photographers that I know carry at least one spare charged battery.

I have only once in 7 years with a DSLR had to change batteries - after taking about 600 shots in continuous shooting mode at a particularly spectacular site for red kites. Even then I only changed as a precaution, not because the battery had actually run out.

Battery life becomes much more significant if you are going to be away from a power source for recharging for a significant period of time, e.g. on a remote hiking trip. Also, on any multi day trip you are probably going to need to carry a charger, but these are quite small.

Shutter lag if you are using manual focusing is essentially zero on both DSLRs and mirrorless cameras.

Manual focusing is more complicated. Modern DSLRs have plain focusing screens because AF is so fast and so accurate. If you want to manual focus you will need to look for an upper end DSLR with the ability to change the focusing screen to one more suitable for MF.

If your DSLR is on a tripod or if you are using a mirrorless camera with an electronic viewfinder off a tripod, you can use Liveview or the view through the electronic viewfinder to focus manually. With these you can typically magnify the image 10x which makes manual focusing very accurate.

If you want to set the focus at the hyperfocal distance I don't know of any digital camera that tells you accurately how far away your focus point is, but I could be wrong.
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Chris R

As noted above, the shutter lag isn't much of an issue with either camera - DSLRs are instantaneous with the exception of live view modes, which can be much slower on many DSLRs...mirrorless cameras also generally have very little to no shutter lag. However, note that with regards to autofocus, there are two types of lag to measure - half-press (pre-focused) lag, and full press (unfocused) lag. Many people confuse focus lag with shutter lag, especially with P&S cameras, and similarly mirrorless, since their autofocus systems are usually not as fast as DSLRs. If you are not half-pressing first to lock focus and/or metering, the shutter press needs to achieve focus AND shoot - so when focus might take 1/4 to 1/2 second if light is poor or lens is slow, that gets added on to the delay to getting the shot. Half-press prefocusing pretty much eliminates shutter lag in all cameras - even P&S cameras can be virtually instant once they are focused.

Manual focus as noted has no shutter lag at all - you handle focus, the camera just snaps the shutter when you tell it to - simple, fast, just like film days. Whether you can achieve focus is another matter - some can focus easily through even smallish optical finders, others need full-size viewfinders and/or split-prism focus screens. EVFs and LCDs as mentioned have the advantage of being able to zoom in for accurate focus - you can pretty much nail the focus every time this way, but speed is usually out the window since the process of zooming in, holding composition, fine tuning focus, then shooting will eat a few seconds at least. When needing to manual focus in a hurry, it helps to just judge by eye and use the lens' distance scale or instinct to generally put the focus in the right vicinity, and let aperture control how generous the focus area width is.

--
Justin
galleries: http://www.pbase.com/zackiedawg

Regarding focusing, my main concern was with being able to set focus and leave a camera "on", ready to snap a photo and the subsequent lag.

Obviously, I assume doing that on a mirrorless camera with EVF is much more draining on a battery as opposed to a DSLR. Is that a fair statement?

As far as hyperfocal use, that's all done with my eye and the aperture-focal scale on the lens, which I assume is basically the same process as 35mm?

From what y'all are telling me, the actual shutter lag (non-focus) and recording between DSLR and mirrorless is a non-issue?

Thanks for your thoughts,

Noah

kidblue said:

Regarding focusing, my main concern was with being able to set focus and leave a camera "on", ready to snap a photo and the subsequent lag.

Obviously, I assume doing that on a mirrorless camera with EVF is much more draining on a battery as opposed to a DSLR. Is that a fair statement?

Click to expand...

It's a non-issue.

kidblue said:

As far as hyperfocal use, that's all done with my eye and the aperture-focal scale on the lens, which I assume is basically the same process as 35mm?

Click to expand...

Couldn't say, other than the scales on modern AF lenses may not be as detailed as the manual focus lenses you're used to. AF is much better than you seem to think.

kidblue said:

From what y'all are telling me, the actual shutter lag (non-focus) and recording between DSLR and mirrorless is a non-issue?

Click to expand...

That's what we're saying.

Can you tell us what you want to photograph?

It is difficult to understand your concerns because for the vast majority of DSLR photography they are a non-issue. But perhaps you have some specialist requirement that means that you need the camera turned on for long periods and ready for instant shooting. Are you thinking of using the camera with an electronic trigger for remote wildlife photography, or something similar?
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Chris R

kidblue said:

Regarding focusing, my main concern was with being able to set focus and leave a camera "on", ready to snap a photo and the subsequent lag.

Click to expand...

DSLR.

kidblue said:

Obviously, I assume doing that on a mirrorless camera with EVF is much more draining on a battery as opposed to a DSLR. Is that a fair statement?

Click to expand...

Yes. EVF sleeps (needs to otherwise batteries are dead pretty soon).

kidblue said:

As far as hyperfocal use, that's all done with my eye and the aperture-focal scale on the lens, which I assume is basically the same process as 35mm?

Click to expand...

If you buy exclusively "old school" lenses with f/no ring on the lens, then that is another matter. Many entry level lenses and even expensive ones no longer have the hyperfocal scale and no longer have f/no ring on the lens, it is on the body.

If you manual focus using the optical viewfinder, entry level DSLRs have less effective optical finders for that purpose. You need to spend substantial money to get a "class" DSLR which has an optical finder clear and bright enough and "big" enough for assessing focus. Those split circle and microprism doughnuts on film SLRs are not there anymore.

kidblue said:

From what y'all are telling me, the actual shutter lag (non-focus) and recording between DSLR and mirrorless is a non-issue?

Click to expand...

Mirrorless use Contrast Detect AF and DSLR use Phase Detect AF. There is a difference in the way the systems operate, DSLR are generally faster. But that is if you use AF. If you switch the camera to MF, there should be less difference.

--



Ananda
http://anandasim.blogspot.com
https://sites.google.com/site/asphotokb

'Enjoy Diversity - Live a Little'

Chris R-UK said:

Can you tell us what you want to photograph?

Click to expand...

Thanks for asking - I'm an avid amateur photojournalist. Most of what I do is street-scene or reportage with a Leica M6 (or IIIC) and either a 28mm or a very fast 50mm. I also have an original Nikon F with a 24mm that has rarely left it. I like the smallest body with the widest lens I can find.

I've had G-series Canons and used the P7000, which are supposedly "heir apparent" to the style I shoot with. I found them very slow, both in pre-focus lag and post-focus lag.

Manual focus, or at least the illusion of hyperfocus/depth-of-field, is extremely important to me.

It sounds like a DSLR is what I'm looking for. My concern with the larger bodies is their size and weight. I like the Nikon D3100 in terms of size, I'm just concerned it won't respond to my pseudo-professional needs.

Any chance you've got any camera stores nearby that have good return policies, whereby you might actually test drive one of the mirrorless Olympus, Panasonic, or Sony cameras to see how they work for you? There are still some things you say that indicate one of these might be a decent option to consider - it doesn't sound like you will likely be shooting subjects or styles that require a DSLR, and may still find some advantages of the smaller, lighter bodies, less conspicuous appearance, and manual focus ease of the mirrorless cameras. They would give you the high ISO/low light advantages of the larger sensor, and interchangeability of lenses, but maintain a reasonably small, portable, and somewhat covert appearance.

--
Justin
galleries: http://www.pbase.com/zackiedawg

That's a great idea (something I'm working on getting around to) - It's totally true that a mirrorless kit would more closely mimic what I've already got and be appropriate, but it still doesn't sound right.

How is mirrorless easier to focus? Just because the EVF can zoom in?

I'm very reticent to go for the EVF because of any lag or delay in shooting due to battery-saving measures - i.e. turning off the EVF automatically, etc. No matter how quickly it can fire up, I'd assume it's yet another possible point of lag. The one issue that seems to be best across the board on a DSLR is battery-life simply due to the fact that they aren't required to consistently power a LCD and can be on standby. Is this true? In that way, I'm seeing a connection between speed and battery life that both seem to be in favor of DSLR.

But if I go "DSLR" can I get away with something like a D3100 with its small size and weight (something I like) or will I be disappointed it isn't a giant 5D?

kidblue said:

How is mirrorless easier to focus? Just because the EVF can zoom in?

Click to expand...

Pretty much - unless you go to the enthusiast-level DSLRs, the optical viewfinders are fairly small and lack any manual focus grids or prisms, so they don't really have any advantages in focus - the EVFs or LCD screens are quite large, usually extremely high resolution, and combined with the ability to zoom in for focus accuracy, can be done very quickly and accurately.

kidblue said:

I'm very reticent to go for the EVF because of any lag or delay in shooting due to battery-saving measures - i.e. turning off the EVF automatically, etc. No matter how quickly it can fire up, I'd assume it's yet another possible point of lag.

Click to expand...

It is - but how much lag, and whether it would affect you, is the big question. I haven't found myself waiting on the camera with my mirrorless when I need a shot - it wakes up from sleep mode instantaneously and is ready to fire. A preventative measure is to half-press the shutter as you grab the camera - by the time you get it up to your eye, it's on and should be ready. That's one reason why trying one out might be a good idea, so you can really test the lag or lack thereof in person for your own needs.

kidblue said:

The one issue that seems to be best across the board on a DSLR is battery-life simply due to the fact that they aren't required to consistently power a LCD and can be on standby. Is this true?

Click to expand...

Absolutely. Again though, the question is relative...how much battery life do you need? There is no question that a decent DSLR will absolutely crush any mirrorless camera on battery life. CIPA ratings of 1,000+ shots are very typical for DSLRs, versus CIPA ratings of 200-300ish for most mirrorless cameras. Of course, the world doesn't all shoot by CIPA standards, so in real life, depending on settings, features, flashes, etc, you can usually get a lot more. With my DSLR, I have seen easily 3,500+ photos on a single charge. With my mirrorless, I have shot about 600-700 over the course of 4-5 days on a single charge. Far more than the CIPA rating for the camera, but far less than my DSLR. But would 500 to 600 photos over a 3-4 day period be typical for you, or do you need to shoot much more? if you're needing to shoot 1,000 frames a day, you'll be changing batteries on a mirrorless much more often than a DSLR. But if you only nede 200-400 a day, a mirrorless will handle it.

kidblue said:

In that way, I'm seeing a connection between speed and battery life that both seem to be in favor of DSLR.

Click to expand...

True...depending on whether a mirrorless' more limited battery life would still be sufficient to meet your needs. Also a note: One thing I find immensely useful for any digital camera is when you have accurate battery life information...especially when using a camera that might have more limited battery life. You may want to look into which cameras have the ability to display remaining battery life in either minutes or percentages, rather than a simple 3 or 4 bar LED grid. This makes your comfort level and trust in the battery much higher, when you can look down and see "46%" rather than 2 bars.

kidblue said:

But if I go "DSLR" can I get away with something like a D3100 with its small size and weight (something I like) or will I be disappointed it isn't a giant 5D?

Click to expand...

That's something only you can know. Personally, I have been very happy and satisfied with APS-C DSLRs paired with the right lenses, and though I don't prefer my DSLRs to be tiny or light, I also don't find myself pining for a full frame.

--
Justin
galleries: http://www.pbase.com/zackiedawg

kidblue said:

I'm very reticent to go for the EVF because of any lag or delay in shooting due to battery-saving measures - i.e. turning off the EVF automatically, etc. No matter how quickly it can fire up, I'd assume it's yet another possible point of lag.

Click to expand...

kidblue said:

The one issue that seems to be best across the board on a DSLR is battery-life simply due to the fact that they aren't required to consistently power a LCD and can be on standby. Is this true?

Click to expand...

I have never used a mirrorless system, except with P&S, but surely the LCD on a mirrorless camera can go into standby mode too? With a dSLR in standby mode, you can bring it out of standby with tap of the shutter release button before it is even at eye level. Why would a mirrorless camera be any different?

kidblue said:

In that way, I'm seeing a connection between speed and battery life that both seem to be in favor of DSLR.

Click to expand...

Possibly, but you can always carry an extra battery, thus doubling the nmber of shots.

kidblue said:

But if I go "DSLR" can I get away with something like a D3100 with its small size and weight (something I like) or will I be disappointed it isn't a giant 5D?

Click to expand...

Either way you will be disappointed in the viewfinder for manual focusing, and you will also be disappointed in the size of the viewfinder on the D3100. Modern focusing screens aren’t designed for manual focusing. On the 5D I use a special ‘super precision matte’ focusing screen – the 5D has user replaceable focusing screens.

When cameras went auto focus, some of the light that would have passed through the prism to the viewfinder was diverted to the autofocus system. In order to alleviate the dimmer viewfinder, microlens based focusing screens were developed. Unfortunately these focusing screens exaggerate the DoF by a couple of stops and don’t allow for focusing aids like a central split prism and surrounding micro prism.

Brian A

Thanks a bunch for the last two replies. They were really in-depth and exactly the kind of information I was hoping to get.

To clarify the EVF/standby issue - Even on "standby", a DSLR is ready to shoot as opposed to a mirrorless kit that would need to power-on an LCD, correct? In other words, if I have a DSLR set to manual-focus and standby mode, I can hit the shutter and have it snap, all while looking through the viewfinder prism, just like 35mm, right?

The mirrorless would seem to have one extra "step", which is powering on the LCD.

It's looking more and more like I'll need to strongly consider one of the bigger boys (5D). I've shot with a 5D and while I was impressed with the quality and experience, I found it to be comparatively enormous to what I like, in size and weight.

I'm also a little skittish of turning my favorite beautiful vintage Nikkor 24mm into a 30-something-mm from the crop-factor. That bums me out. I guess a lot of the newer, smaller DSLRs and mirrorless systems won't even meter with it anyway, so I should likely bite the bullet and accept that I'll be buying a 14-18mm, too. I do have to admit, I'm also drawn to the D3100 because its kit-lens seems to get good marks beyond the comparable offerings from Panasonic.

Seeing as how most of what I shoot is reportage, depth-of-field is my friend. I don't mind the smaller sensor (more depth) and frankly, I haven't used a split-focus or gridded screen on a SLR ever. Obviously, on my rangefinders, it's split-focusing (coupled) or hyperfocus or nothing, but on my Nikon SLR, I usually just use f4 or higher and my eye. I guess that's the definition of "old school", isn't it?

kidblue said:

To clarify the EVF/standby issue - Even on "standby", a DSLR is ready to shoot as opposed to a mirrorless kit that would need to power-on an LCD, correct? In other words, if I have a DSLR set to manual-focus and standby mode, I can hit the shutter and have it snap, all while looking through the viewfinder prism, just like 35mm, right?

The mirrorless would seem to have one extra "step", which is powering on the LCD.

Click to expand...

Here's the rub - most DSLRs use their LCD to display various menu and camera settings - and this LCD too is often set to go into sleep mode. A similar amount of time would be required to get that screen up from a sleep - but we're talking fractional time. As I noted, if I grab my DSLR or mirrorless from a prone to a shooting position, brushing the shutter button as I lift it to my eye, either one is up and ready to shoot by the time it gets to my face. So at least with that, I wouldn't worry.

kidblue said:

It's looking more and more like I'll need to strongly consider one of the bigger boys (5D). I've shot with a 5D and while I was impressed with the quality and experience, I found it to be comparatively enormous to what I like, in size and weight.

Click to expand...

Indeed - they are huge, but have their obvious advantages. And all cameras, no matter which you choose, requires compromise. Up to you where you want to make your compromises - size, weight, viewfinder size, speed, price, convenience, etc.

kidblue said:

I'm also a little skittish of turning my favorite beautiful vintage Nikkor 24mm into a 30-something-mm from the crop-factor. That bums me out.

Click to expand...

That is definitely something you'd have to get used to on any APS-C sensor, be it mirrorless or DSLR. If you want to use existing lenses, and maintain the effective focal length of the lens, it'll have to be full-frame or nothing.

kidblue said:

I guess a lot of the newer, smaller DSLRs and mirrorless systems won't even meter with it anyway, so I should likely bite the bullet and accept that I'll be buying a 14-18mm, too.

Click to expand...

I couldn't tell you if Nikon's smaller DSLRs can meter with older Nikon lenses - as unfortunately I do not know. However, most entry-level DSLRs I've heard of can meter through any lenses attached to the camera. And mirrorless cameras I believe can all maintain metering through any lenses attached to them. I know my NEX system can continue to meter with anything from 80 year old rangefinder lenses to current Minolta/Sony mount, and anything in between. The old manual lenses require setting the aperture, but in aperture priority mode, the camera will still meter, and can control shutter and/or ISO as desired.

kidblue said:

Seeing as how most of what I shoot is reportage, depth-of-field is my friend. I don't mind the smaller sensor (more depth) and frankly, I haven't used a split-focus or gridded screen on a SLR ever. Obviously, on my rangefinders, it's split-focusing (coupled) or hyperfocus or nothing, but on my Nikon SLR, I usually just use f4 or higher and my eye. I guess that's the definition of "old school", isn't it?

Click to expand...

In that case at least, the digital cameras can function the same way. Once you get to know a lens' characteristics and focus latitude at various apertures, you can pretty much 'eye' it - I often manually focus on my mirrorless without using the magnification - I will shoot aperture priority with an older manual lens, set to F8, and use a combination of using the lens' distance scale and eyeing the LCD to quickly focus in the general vicinity and shooting, relying on the latitude of the depth of field to nail the focus on my subject. I often keep a manual lens on my mirrorless as a default walkaround lens, and can rattle off spontaneous shots quickly and reliably, using all manual. Those motor memories stick around from film days!

--
Justin
galleries: http://www.pbase.com/zackiedawg

You might get better advice by asking serious street photographers what cameras they use.

Try posting on the Open Forum.
--
Chris R

Regarding shutter lag - since mirrorless cameras have to go through a different (maybe more complex) sequence than a DSLR at the moment of exposure, is there a significant difference in shutter lag?

Here's the mirrorless process as I understand it:

1. Close shutter

2. Reset sensor

3. Open/close shutter (i.e. take the shot)

4. Readout sensor data

5. Open shutter

Here's a YouTube slo mo video of the process:
DSLR process:

1. Raise mirror

2. Open/close shutter

3. Lower mirror

Is there a significant difference in lag between the two? Or is the difference negligible in the real world?

no text

Yep .. it is an ancient thread ...

BUT ... all I know is that almost ALL ML's now have faster shutter-lag than dSLR's.

Prefocus can be less than 20ms. (and the Sony a6500 is claiming a 50ms AF-time)

kidblue said:

I'm a longtime film photographer finally ready to enter the area beyond digital point-and-shoot.

My main concern has always been the speed (or lack thereof) of digitals.

I'm a committed manual-focuser and hyperfocal-focuser who does not use autofocus a lot. I'm also spoiled by mechanical cameras that don't have batteries.

I'm very concerned with shutter lag and battery-life.

What are my best bets as far as entry-level battery life and lack of non-autofocus-based shutter lag?

Common sense would dictate that anything with an EVF would have worse battery life than a mirrored (SLR) camera, right?

How does shutter lag (actual delay in pressing the shutter versus the recording) compare between DSLR and mirrorless?

Thanks a bunch,
Noah

Click to expand...

My mirrorless cameras have far worse battery life than my DSLR's. By like at least a few multiples. I turn off image review (so the screen on my DSLR's only comes on when I explicitly want to look at a particular picture.

But, interestingly, my mirrorless cameras are great for manual focusing on particular subjects (though not landscapes) because of focus peaking. Great feature!

For shutter lag, your main concern should be mechanical vs electronic shutter, not mirrorless vs. DSLR. A mirrorless and DSLR could conceivably use the exact same shutter mechanism--the only difference would be the absence of the mirror flip up step.

I don't really notice any shutter lag on my DSLR's...especially because I put them in "Release priority" mode, which means the camera's priority is to take the shot as soon as I release the shutter. The camera will not wait for focusing, etc. Very quick--near instantaneous.

As a note, my mirrorless cameras are not exactly high end, and they each have the most basic shutter possible anyway. They are nowhere near pro grade; and they are definitely slower, even using a mechanical shutter in release priority mode. I took a few test shots just now with one of them, and there's maybe a tenth of a second or so.