lighting basketball is hell

BTW- The setup I describe above really only works for high school level or lower sports venues. Some colleges will permit lights to be mounted high and the corners but most and all pro events require mounting in the rafters and that is a completely different situation.
 
Also check out Sportsshooter.com for a ton of info about sports photography.

DG28.com also gives some good advice about lighting and you can see a different setup using Lumidyne lights there that would also work well in a sports setting.
 
Do you have pictures to show with the lighting you use here??
The cheaper (and darker) version:

http://www.mindspring.com/~photoj/lighting.htm

The brighter version:

http://www.mindspring.com/~photoj/biglighting.htm

You don't need all that much power to light the venues.

I haven't done this yet (I usually shoot ambient), but I'm looking
at booking tournaments throughout December and - if I get them - I
will be buying the lights to light the gyms.

Better quality, consistent color, faster post processing times.

Regards,
Micheal
I've decided to buy a bar clamp and some kind of monolight to help
light action shots of our local teams in the caves our the school
system claims are gymnasiums. I've never used any kind of real
lighting equipment before so this is new teretory for me. My
supervisor isn't going to pay for it so this is coming out of my
own pocket.

Anyway, I need help deciding what kind of monolight to buy. Is
there any one particular brand that is known to be more durable
than another?

What kind of output should I be looking for? 500 w/s? 1000 w/s??
Ideally I would have enough to bounce a little off of the roof and
just get a little extra light that way. I dont plan on stopping
down to shoot. I'll probably shoot at 2.8 or 4 with pretty fast
iso. I dont want it to look two directional, seeing as I'll only
have one monolight coming from one side and not another to balance
the exposure.

what works for you?

Al
--
---
Micheal
--
Ken Seal

Growing Amature
D1h
Latest additoin: Nik-AF 85mm F1.4
Nik-AF 50mm 1.4D AF
Nik-AF 80-200mm 2.8D AF
Nik-AF 24-85mm 2.8-4D AF
SB80DX
 
You can save yourself a lot of white balance problems by buying strobes that are made for the job. Not to mention the fact that you can use them for other things (studio work - Ie. our food page).

i'm not worried about distracting players. They're only highschool sports. At the state level championships they dont allow flash but they have gyms that work well for naturally lit shots.

Al
What if... you were to use theatrical-style lights (you can rent
them for a day from many places if you want to test this out),
plugging them into the mains (make sure first that you don't have
enough wattage to overload a circuit), and supply the entire gym
with constant lighting from a couple of locations. To light an
entire gym through indirect light, you'll probably want at least
1000w. If you're using higher wattage, you'll need an extra power
supply.

The people at the place you'd rent from would be able to help you
figure out what you'd need, specifically. My own first instinct
would be a) an ETC Source 4 series light, possibly the Source 4
Par, b) A pair of 1000w Fresnel lights or c) a couple of 1000w Par
64 units, although depending on the size of the gym and the amount
of additional light you want, you might need a movie-style 2kw+
fresnel... If you're in the Northeast US, I can help you find a
rental house.

=)
-nufferkay
I've decided to buy a bar clamp and some kind of monolight to help
light action shots of our local teams in the caves our the school
system claims are gymnasiums. I've never used any kind of real
lighting equipment before so this is new teretory for me. My
supervisor isn't going to pay for it so this is coming out of my
own pocket.

Anyway, I need help deciding what kind of monolight to buy. Is
there any one particular brand that is known to be more durable
than another?

What kind of output should I be looking for? 500 w/s? 1000 w/s??
Ideally I would have enough to bounce a little off of the roof and
just get a little extra light that way. I dont plan on stopping
down to shoot. I'll probably shoot at 2.8 or 4 with pretty fast
iso. I dont want it to look two directional, seeing as I'll only
have one monolight coming from one side and not another to balance
the exposure.

what works for you?

Al
 
Plenty. What's the easiest way to post one?

Al
The cheaper (and darker) version:

http://www.mindspring.com/~photoj/lighting.htm

The brighter version:

http://www.mindspring.com/~photoj/biglighting.htm

You don't need all that much power to light the venues.

I haven't done this yet (I usually shoot ambient), but I'm looking
at booking tournaments throughout December and - if I get them - I
will be buying the lights to light the gyms.

Better quality, consistent color, faster post processing times.

Regards,
Micheal
I've decided to buy a bar clamp and some kind of monolight to help
light action shots of our local teams in the caves our the school
system claims are gymnasiums. I've never used any kind of real
lighting equipment before so this is new teretory for me. My
supervisor isn't going to pay for it so this is coming out of my
own pocket.

Anyway, I need help deciding what kind of monolight to buy. Is
there any one particular brand that is known to be more durable
than another?

What kind of output should I be looking for? 500 w/s? 1000 w/s??
Ideally I would have enough to bounce a little off of the roof and
just get a little extra light that way. I dont plan on stopping
down to shoot. I'll probably shoot at 2.8 or 4 with pretty fast
iso. I dont want it to look two directional, seeing as I'll only
have one monolight coming from one side and not another to balance
the exposure.

what works for you?

Al
--
---
Micheal
--
Ken Seal

Growing Amature
D1h
Latest additoin: Nik-AF 85mm F1.4
Nik-AF 50mm 1.4D AF
Nik-AF 80-200mm 2.8D AF
Nik-AF 24-85mm 2.8-4D AF
SB80DX
 
I work at a daily too. The "suits" wont give our department enough money to buy the equipment we need to do our job. I'm using an old broken down d1 and each of our three staff members only has one camera to shoot with. We use our own lenses and our own flash units. In fact, we just recently got a second computer.

I dont guess you guys are hiring are you? =)

Al
Al- I'm glad Michael Hall and Paul Gillespie chimed in as they have
offered good advice and links to good advice.

I shoot a ton of sports for a daily newspaper and when I was using
my own equipment before the company started providing equipment I
often would do a quick and dirty multi-flash setup as described
below.

I had two old Nikon SB24's that I didn't use after switching to
Canon. Any manual flash can be used however. I power them via
Underdog batteries and trigger them with Pocket Wizard remotes. I
would shoot them one stop brighter than ambient to allow freezing
of motion and still allow the background to show up. Placement was
either both at left and right corners on one end or one at the near
corner and another at mid-court aimed at the key. This provided
both main light and key light. If it seems that I was getting too
many players or more often an ump that would block one flash I
would then use one flash on camera too as a fill. The flash,
battery, and PW's were mounted to railings, hand rails, whatever
via a SuperClamp. I also screwed a hot shoe mount onto the
Underdog batteries which then permits the flash to sit atop the
battery (I call this a flash grenade setup) allowing me to even
place them quickly on the floor or on a nearby stadium seat, wall,
etc at either corner of a sporting event (floor setup is best for
low stuff like wrestling). I leave them set as flash grenades in a
small Domke F3 bag. After setting it up once or twice you will
know your power settings and required aperature setting. Using
800asa with the flashes at 1/8- 1/4 power I could usually get
1/[email protected] in the shooting zone of the court. I could setup and be
shooting in about 2 minutes using the flash grenade configuration
or about 10 minutes using clamps and finding a position.

You can replace the small flashes with more powerful Dynalight
Jrn's (which I also sometimes use) for more DOF but the expense is
more too and the setup takes longer. Other good monolights are the
White Lightning Zap's and even the light but sturdy Alien Bee's.
Get the largest watt second unit you can afford and then shoot at a
low power setting to get the shortest possible flash duration.

While I don't use my personal gear for work anymore using the above
setup is something I miss as it made the images that much better.
 
I work at a daily too. The "suits" wont give our department enough
money to buy the equipment we need to do our job. I'm using an old
broken down d1 and each of our three staff members only has one
camera to shoot with. We use our own lenses and our own flash
units. In fact, we just recently got a second computer.

I dont guess you guys are hiring are you? =)
Sorry buy I sympathize! The cool thing about the setup I use is that with just one light and a flash on camera you can make it work too and that the off camera flash can be a small shoe mount flash you have left over, or a mono-light. So it can be as expensive or as cheap as you need.

Hey maybe getting some new sports shots with better lighting you will get your portfolio even more notice from those few papers that are hiring! Good luck.
 
If you are shooting digital,(why else would you be here?) and it's an slr, just forget the light, shoot from under the under the bucket zone at either 800 or 1600, with a 50/1.4 and you'll get what you need, you may need to play a bit to get the lowest shutter speed each particular gym will need, but this does work, and I run these shots in newsprint with no problem. If you can shoot in B & W, you will do a bit better also. If you can get your hands on a used Kodak X series camera, you can shoot at least 3200, with NO problems, and worry about the color balance when you get home. If you must use a flash, at least knock it down to a -2, so you just pop the shadows a bit, and you don't blind the players. Good luck!

--
Mike D
http://www.pbase.com/miked
 
Hey, if it was easy everybody would do it. If you want good results you have to work for them.
 
25 years ago I shoot BB in available light using Tri-X pushed to 800 ASA (now called ISO) and while it was grainy, it was usable.

The exposure info was something like 1/125 @ f4 to f5.6 depending on the gym.

A decent lens, some pre-focusing (no auto-focus back then) and some experience learning the game and I was able to get some good shots.

That is my suggestion,
I've decided to buy a bar clamp and some kind of monolight to help
light action shots of our local teams in the caves our the school
system claims are gymnasiums. I've never used any kind of real
lighting equipment before so this is new teretory for me. My
supervisor isn't going to pay for it so this is coming out of my
own pocket.

Anyway, I need help deciding what kind of monolight to buy. Is
there any one particular brand that is known to be more durable
than another?

What kind of output should I be looking for? 500 w/s? 1000 w/s??
Ideally I would have enough to bounce a little off of the roof and
just get a little extra light that way. I dont plan on stopping
down to shoot. I'll probably shoot at 2.8 or 4 with pretty fast
iso. I dont want it to look two directional, seeing as I'll only
have one monolight coming from one side and not another to balance
the exposure.

what works for you?

Al
--
TonyK
 
I use to think (when I was just getting into this industry) that if you had a kick butt portfolio and a good way with people you could get a job anywhere. I found out that it takes a lot of networking and word of mouth.

My next big step is to complete my degree. Once I'm out of college with a few years of full time experience and a great portfolio... I'll be bound to get a job somewhere more suitable.

Maybe I should just become a greater at wall mart.
Al
I work at a daily too. The "suits" wont give our department enough
money to buy the equipment we need to do our job. I'm using an old
broken down d1 and each of our three staff members only has one
camera to shoot with. We use our own lenses and our own flash
units. In fact, we just recently got a second computer.

I dont guess you guys are hiring are you? =)
Sorry buy I sympathize! The cool thing about the setup I use is
that with just one light and a flash on camera you can make it work
too and that the off camera flash can be a small shoe mount flash
you have left over, or a mono-light. So it can be as expensive or
as cheap as you need.

Hey maybe getting some new sports shots with better lighting you
will get your portfolio even more notice from those few papers that
are hiring! Good luck.
 
How do you stop action at 1/125 of a second? I find 1/250 to be a little slow for sports like volley ball.

The gyms around here are rediculously dim. I can't get 1/250th at f/2.8 at 1600 iso. 1/125 is about as fast as it gets for available light (on a good day). I would like to close it down some as well.

Al
The exposure info was something like 1/125 @ f4 to f5.6 depending
on the gym.

A decent lens, some pre-focusing (no auto-focus back then) and some
experience learning the game and I was able to get some good shots.

That is my suggestion,
I've decided to buy a bar clamp and some kind of monolight to help
light action shots of our local teams in the caves our the school
system claims are gymnasiums. I've never used any kind of real
lighting equipment before so this is new teretory for me. My
supervisor isn't going to pay for it so this is coming out of my
own pocket.

Anyway, I need help deciding what kind of monolight to buy. Is
there any one particular brand that is known to be more durable
than another?

What kind of output should I be looking for? 500 w/s? 1000 w/s??
Ideally I would have enough to bounce a little off of the roof and
just get a little extra light that way. I dont plan on stopping
down to shoot. I'll probably shoot at 2.8 or 4 with pretty fast
iso. I dont want it to look two directional, seeing as I'll only
have one monolight coming from one side and not another to balance
the exposure.

what works for you?

Al
--
TonyK
 
Why would you want to try? I think that you are going the right route with a flash set up. Even if it is just a couple of Vivatar's for now. The lights, radio slaves and all the rest can be used for more than just basketball. You can start light enviromental portraits with the kit and many other things.

You can shoot at a lower ISO, The color ie; WB is easier to get correct. You stop the action. Your prints look cleaner. It seems to me that it is the lbest way to go.

But hey this is just my opinion, you have to work within your budget. Iif the stuff comes out of you pocket take it slow. Remeber you can use it on side jobs and it will also make your book look better.



PAul W Gillespie
The Maryland Gazette
http://pwgphoto.home.att.net
 
---------------- ad in about a 5 stop exposure latitude, maybe even a little push in the soup and maybe more deving later at the print stage one finds exposures that are realistically impossible with digital today.

1/125sec is fine for “peak of action” – as the poster said – when one knows the game well enough and times it accordingly.
 
By anticipating the action. There are generally moments, even in action, where movement stops.

And the lighting may very well be less these days. Remember 25 years back we weren't so worried about electricity. In fact the electric companies were extolling us to use more.

If you need more light, work with the coaches and see if you can use a flash that has a diffuser or a bounce system.

Good luck,
How do you stop action at 1/125 of a second? I find 1/250 to be a
little slow for sports like volley ball.

The gyms around here are rediculously dim. I can't get 1/250th at
f/2.8 at 1600 iso. 1/125 is about as fast as it gets for available
light (on a good day). I would like to close it down some as well.

Al
--
TonyK
 
Hi Ger,

That is what I had to do. I was learning photography and the local BB games were a good learning experience.

And film was more forgiving than digital for exposure. I am beginning to treat my exposure on the digital cameras like slide film. Get it spot on and things are great. A bit off, especially on over exposure and it could be ruined.

Negative film was easier to work with in regards to exposure. Slide film was worse and I never did shoot a role of slide film. I read up on it and decided it was not where I was at that time.

Take care,
---------------- ad in about a 5 stop exposure latitude, maybe even
a little push in the soup and maybe more deving later at the print
stage one finds exposures that are realistically impossible with
digital today.

1/125sec is fine for “peak of action” – as the poster said – when
one knows the game well enough and times it accordingly.
--
TonyK
 

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