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MichaelT has been banned!!!

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Troponin said:
Troponin
JC said:
Yes, Michael Tapes has been banned from posting in all forums on
DPReview.

I was one of the alpha testers for Archive Creator and, like so
many of you, believe this is an extremely useful and valuable
product. I recently spoke with Michael and he informed me that
when he attempted to post in one of the Archive Creator threads, he
was unceremoniously informed that he was banned for “abuse” of the
site. No email from Phil beforehand, no notice whatsoever, no
regard for all that he has contributed in discussions about Archive
Creator and, of course, YarcPlus. Since Michael received no other
information regarding the ban, it is not possible to know for sure
why he was banned. Presumably, Phil banned Michael for violating
the rule against advertising.

The irony of the situation is that Michael has emailed Phil several
times within the past few days in an attempt to purchase
advertising for Archive Creator on DPReview! Phil, however, failed
to respond to any of Michael’s emails. Michael emailed Phil again
after being banned and still no response.

So where does this leave the Canon SLR forum (and other forums as
well)? Questions and comments about Archive Creator continue to
come in, but the person best qualified to answer those questions
cannot respond. Questions about YarcPlus also will continue to be
posted but, again, Michael will not be able to provide the level of
service and support that he has in the past. To those who would
say that users of the software can still email him, you should
realize that there is a benefit in users posting questions and
getting replies so that all users may benefit, even if they did not
have that specific issue. Moreover, individuals who have not
purchased the software also get to see the strengths and even
weaknesses (such as lack of Mac support) of the software.

That’s the practical argument. Another argument is that the ban is
STUPID! I know it’s Phil’s site and he can do with it what he
pleases. But whom is he helping by banning Michael? And how can
Phil, in good conscience, ban Michael for advertising when Phil has
refused to answer Michael’s emails asking to pay for advertising?
Someone mentioned a double standard exists. But given Michael’s
attempt to purchase advertising, it seems as if there is just an
arbitrary standard. Phil’s apparent hubris helps no one, not even
Phil.

I could on, but I guess you all get the message. A valuable
contributor to the forum has been banned for providing information
about a new product, despite his attempts to purchase advertising
for that product. Now let’s see if I get banned as well, even
without violating any of the rules.

JC
Click to expand...
--
Troponin (Trop)
Click to expand...
--

D60, 16-35 L, 28-70 L, 70-200 f2.8 L IS, 2x Extender,550EX Flash and a bunch of average images.
But improving slowly.
 
Hi, Fred,

Just to clear up a couple of things:
Fred Bopp said:
Advertising supports this and many other web sites. I don't think
any vendors should be allowed to advertise their products for free.
Answering questions about a product is educational and informative
and does not alude to selling the product.
Click to expand...
Six weeks ago (not just within the past few days as I originally thought), long before Archive Creator was launched, Michael emailed Phil inquiring about paying for advertising on the site. Michael followed up but Phil never responded.
Fred Bopp said:
Michael apparently exceeded the rules and this is the price. He has
also advertised his products in a similar manner on other forums
and was advised to desist by Rob G.
Click to expand...
Rob Galbraith, to my knowledge (and Michael's - I asked him) never criticized Michael for advertising. A participant criticized Michael for posting news about a YarcPlus update and a forum administrator responded by saying that what Michael did was permissible under forum rules. (Interestingly, the administrator pointed out that the poster's criticism was against the rules!)
Fred Bopp said:
Now I'll probably get banned and I didn't even try to sell
anything.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that can happen. Ask DavidP.

The bottom line, to me anyway, is that Michael did not try to get something for nothing. He asked about advertising and received no response. He then posted news about Archive Creator that elicited a great deal of positive response and confirmation that the product was valuable. Then, rather than being warned - as some others have been - he was summarily banned. It could have been handled better.

Regards,

JC
 
you can't get from the first link to the download page (or at least I couldn't find a way).

billtoo
Nill Toulme said:
Nill
Bill too said:
I couldn't find the above page from where your link went although
that seems mighty strange. Finally Googled it.
Nill Toulme said:
That is indeed very bad and sad news. But Michael continues to
provide his exemplary support for both YarcPlus and AC on his
public forums at

http://www.pictureflow.com/forum/index.php
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/billtoo
 
JC said:
Yes, Michael Tapes has been banned from posting in all forums on
DPReview.
Click to expand...
In a world where software is generally designed by corporations with very little if any day-to-day interaction with average users, and the response to bugs is to issue a new version, "available at the upgrade price," it is refreshing and informative for a software developer to be available on a forum such as this.

Breeze Browser and YarcPlus are two sorely needed programs. Michael Tapes has responded to many threads, often having nothing directly to do with YP. He has shared his experience and viewpoints. He has also talked about YP, clarifying questions I and others have obut his program's use.

If I had not read about YP on this forum, and also the back and forth about RAW files, I would still be cursing at Canon's converter. I see Michael Tapes as an informed and informative member of the Canon digital camera community, far from the aloof position of a Bill Gates.

I would feel very differently about a posting from Gates inviting us all to try his next bloated program.

Even Canon's rep, Chuck Westfall, was more than welcome on another forum, engaging in some very useful discussions, at least in my opinion.

I would not even know there was a YarcPlus if it weren't for this forum. Michael Tapes has never even tried to boost his program at the expense of Breeze Browser, and the result is that I use both, each for different purposes.

I have learned a lot from Mr Tapes on this forum, and feel sorry that he is no longer welcome.

--
Walter K
 
He received an email "warning" in that situation. I will say that this did NOT occur in this situation.

Perhaps none was really needed (the rules are fairly clear). On the other hand, he'd "advertised" here before, with no ill effects. If it were up to me (and it's not), he would've received a warning first via email.

Additionally, I would've tried to work some sort of deal where I could announce the product as a News Item for a fee, or just allow MichaelT to do the same thing in the forum for a fee.
Fred Bopp said:
Michael apparently exceeded the rules and this is the price. He has
also advertised his products in a similar manner on other forums
and was advised to desist by Rob G.
Click to expand...
--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Photography -- just another word for compromise
 
I think Phil has the ability to ban by IP address. Not that I bothered testing it.

Plus, I think MichaelT (like myself) is above such behavior.
Daven said:
why does he just create a new username and come back in?? he could
go by the name Mr. T....well all know who he is..... : )
Or Ice T......Or T bone.........or T and A.............or Ti Ti
Ta.........or the best yet.... " T Ban" thats the ticket!
Click to expand...
--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Photography -- just another word for compromise
 
mayday said:
JC said:
Yes, Michael Tapes has been banned from posting in all forums on
DPReview.

I was one of the alpha testers for Archive Creator and, like so
many of you, believe this is an extremely useful and valuable
product. I recently spoke with Michael and he informed me that
when he attempted to post in one of the Archive Creator threads, he
was unceremoniously informed that he was banned for “abuse” of the
site. No email from Phil beforehand, no notice whatsoever, no
regard for all that he has contributed in discussions about Archive
Creator and, of course, YarcPlus. Since Michael received no other
information regarding the ban, it is not possible to know for sure
why he was banned. Presumably, Phil banned Michael for violating
the rule against advertising.

The irony of the situation is that Michael has emailed Phil several
times within the past few days in an attempt to purchase
advertising for Archive Creator on DPReview! Phil, however, failed
to respond to any of Michael’s emails. Michael emailed Phil again
after being banned and still no response.

So where does this leave the Canon SLR forum (and other forums as
well)? Questions and comments about Archive Creator continue to
come in, but the person best qualified to answer those questions
cannot respond. Questions about YarcPlus also will continue to be
posted but, again, Michael will not be able to provide the level of
service and support that he has in the past. To those who would
say that users of the software can still email him, you should
realize that there is a benefit in users posting questions and
getting replies so that all users may benefit, even if they did not
have that specific issue. Moreover, individuals who have not
purchased the software also get to see the strengths and even
weaknesses (such as lack of Mac support) of the software.

That’s the practical argument. Another argument is that the ban is
STUPID! I know it’s Phil’s site and he can do with it what he
pleases. But whom is he helping by banning Michael? And how can
Phil, in good conscience, ban Michael for advertising when Phil has
refused to answer Michael’s emails asking to pay for advertising?
Someone mentioned a double standard exists. But given Michael’s
attempt to purchase advertising, it seems as if there is just an
arbitrary standard. Phil’s apparent hubris helps no one, not even
Phil.

I could on, but I guess you all get the message. A valuable
contributor to the forum has been banned for providing information
about a new product, despite his attempts to purchase advertising
for that product. Now let’s see if I get banned as well, even
without violating any of the rules.

JC
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
JC said:
I could on, but I guess you all get the message.
Click to expand...
Yeah, we get it... from one side.

If I ran a website and had a vendor using my site for a free means of drumming up business on my nickel, I'd ban him, too. I found his commercials on every thread that touched on an issue he had a product for pretty irritating, to say the least. He even went so far as to make product comparisons and to jump in on threads where someone was speaking positively about a competitor like Breezebrowser.

Lately, his free ads have been pretty intense on all the forums with his new Archive Creator product... anything that mentioned CDRs had him touting the wonders of his newest product in glorious detail, while Phil pays for the bandwidth.

And now we hear this highly implausible story that he had been trying to buy advertising at the time he was banned. Yeah right. Wonder why he got that idea all of a sudden this week after many months of free ads in the forums? What stirred his conscience all of a sudden, hmmm?

I'm on Phil's side on this one.

--
BryanS
 
Having experienced a ban by Phil myself (no warning, either), and having talked to Michael in the past (phone and email).

Michael has told me some of the details about him trying to get advertising or a News Item from Phil. I won't go into those details. I will say that in my biased opinion, Michael is telling the truth. (It should be noted that Phil hasn't offered an alternate explanation for me to evaluate, however).

Am I wrong? Possibly. And, yes, I'm obviously biased. Who isn't?
BryanS said:
And now we hear this highly implausible story that he had been
trying to buy advertising at the time he was banned. Yeah right.
Wonder why he got that idea all of a sudden this week after many
months of free ads in the forums? What stirred his conscience all
of a sudden, hmmm?

I'm on Phil's side on this one.
Click to expand...
--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Photography -- just another word for compromise
 
BryanS said:
And now we hear this highly implausible story that he had been
trying to buy advertising at the time he was banned. Yeah right.
Click to expand...
Bryan,

Well, let's see if Phil denies that Michael inquired about advertising for Archive Creator - Michael has copies of the emails. Of course, Michael cannot give his side of the story here since he's been banned. Phil, on the other hand, has the capability but has not done so.

I think Phil's move was rash given that he never gave Michael a warning, especially when others in similar situations were either warned or left alone. But I don't believe that Phil is dishonest, and so I don't think he will deny that Michael tried to arrange advertising weeks ago.

JC
 
Bryan,

All things being equal, what you say is true. But the fact is there is (and always has been) the concept of shareware on the 'net. At $30, and a usable demo, Yarc IS shareware and shouldn't be treated as a full blown comercial product IMHO. You can't seriously believe it can compete with advertising bucks with a product like PhaseOne (that's $500.)

I'll probably purchase PhaseOne, but I come to this site because of contributions from Michael and others. I think it's sad that he and others are treated as though they are corporations rather than contributors.
John Malloy
BryanS said:
JC said:
I could on, but I guess you all get the message.
Click to expand...
Yeah, we get it... from one side.

If I ran a website and had a vendor using my site for a free means
of drumming up business on my nickel, I'd ban him, too. I found
his commercials on every thread that touched on an issue he had a
product for pretty irritating, to say the least. He even went so
far as to make product comparisons and to jump in on threads where
someone was speaking positively about a competitor like
Breezebrowser.

Lately, his free ads have been pretty intense on all the forums
with his new Archive Creator product... anything that mentioned
CDRs had him touting the wonders of his newest product in glorious
detail, while Phil pays for the bandwidth.

And now we hear this highly implausible story that he had been
trying to buy advertising at the time he was banned. Yeah right.
Wonder why he got that idea all of a sudden this week after many
months of free ads in the forums? What stirred his conscience all
of a sudden, hmmm?

I'm on Phil's side on this one.

--
BryanS
Click to expand...
 
Read the rules. Why is it anymore when someone breaks the rules and suffers the penalties for it, it is the fault of the person who made the rule or inforced it. He broke the rules. He got banned. What is the problem. No wonder society is fouled up the people who break the rules are treated as the victim and the people who make and follow are in the wrong. He has his own site anyone can go there and he sets the rules there.
 
DavidP said:
Additionally, I would've tried to work some sort of deal where I
could announce the product as a News Item for a fee, or just allow
MichaelT to do the same thing in the forum for a fee.
Click to expand...
is that it kinda, sorta means that the site owner is endorsing use of a new software product. Seems like the way to get this going is for the software vendor pay the site owner to evaluate the product then post the results, good or bad.... But then how would Phil handle products he wants to evaluate cost-free? Does he get paid now for putting up software reviews on his site?
 
WalterK said:
JC said:
Yes, Michael Tapes has been banned from posting in all forums on
DPReview.
Click to expand...
In a world where software is generally designed by corporations
with very little if any day-to-day interaction with average users,
and the response to bugs is to issue a new version, "available at
the upgrade price," it is refreshing and informative for a software
developer to be available on a forum such as this.

Breeze Browser and YarcPlus are two sorely needed programs.
Michael Tapes has responded to many threads, often having nothing
directly to do with YP. He has shared his experience and
viewpoints. He has also talked about YP, clarifying questions I
and others have obut his program's use.

If I had not read about YP on this forum, and also the back and
forth about RAW files, I would still be cursing at Canon's
converter. I see Michael Tapes as an informed and informative
member of the Canon digital camera community, far from the aloof
position of a Bill Gates.

I would feel very differently about a posting from Gates inviting
us all to try his next bloated program.

Even Canon's rep, Chuck Westfall, was more than welcome on another
forum, engaging in some very useful discussions, at least in my
opinion.

I would not even know there was a YarcPlus if it weren't for this
forum. Michael Tapes has never even tried to boost his program at
the expense of Breeze Browser, and the result is that I use both,
each for different purposes.

I have learned a lot from Mr Tapes on this forum, and feel sorry
that he is no longer welcome.

--
Walter K
Click to expand...
 
After I had my T-1 line installed, DPReview would not let me post on the site stating exactly the same thing. However, if I logged on via AOL, I was fine to post. Since I got my server kinks fixed, I have had no problem.

This may sound like a silly question, but are we really sure that MichaelT was bounced?

-JM

--
http://www.MasterworkPhotography.com
 
BryanS said:
Lately, his free ads have been pretty intense on all the forums
with his new Archive Creator product... anything that mentioned
CDRs had him touting the wonders of his newest product in glorious
detail, while Phil pays for the bandwidth.
Click to expand...
If any new software product that helps with photos or printing comes out, bandwidth will increase regardless of who starts it. Just look at all the bandwidth over in the printing forums regarding the Epson Gray balancer software over the last six months.

I never thought any of Michaels were intense, just informative... I see the other side though, that it can get out of hand with too much 'support' type threads but in Michael's case it just beta software. When the product is relelased I would hope the 'intense' amount of threads would go way down...
 
Banning by IP address never works either. I can get a new IP by renewing my DHCP request with my ISP in the matter of seconds. Or use a proxy server on the internet. Fact is, if you have a website, people will get to it no matter what you do.

pwc
DavidP said:
Plus, I think MichaelT (like myself) is above such behavior.
Daven said:
why does he just create a new username and come back in?? he could
go by the name Mr. T....well all know who he is..... : )
Or Ice T......Or T bone.........or T and A.............or Ti Ti
Ta.........or the best yet.... " T Ban" thats the ticket!
Click to expand...
--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Photography -- just another word for compromise
Click to expand...
 
Michael Tapes has a lot of supporters in this forum and in this thread. But his supporters miss or gloss over the issues here. Before I get into it, I will say that if Phil didn't warn him, he should have. That's the only fair thing to do.

Having said that, I got into a few on forum and off forum conversations with Michael T. over the past year. He seems like a very nice guy. But I personally found his overwhelming need to "advertise" Yarc Plus to be irritating. No, his posts weren't blatant advertising as we know. They were subtle advertising posts. Thos posts that many refer to as his support here in this forum, were borderline. Yes, they could be viewed as pure support. But in fact they kept his product in a position of promenence in this forum. That is fine IF it's the users that are doing it. But if you examine those threads you will see that it's Michael posting to those thread numerous times that keeps them near the top. This serves as a method to inform new potential users of his product(s). So the effect is advertising without it actually being blatant advertising.

Some might wonder, "What's the big deal?". Well, I've personally seen many useful forums be killed by the slow onset of advertising in what once were user-centric forums. Those forums eventually lost their value. There is a place where people don't want any appearance of biased information. Those who spend their money on products are the most objective crowd. When those participants also have a financial interest in the discussion threads, that objectivity is lost.

In conversation with Michael, I expressed these very concerns to him directly. He disagreed with my opinion. So while banning seems like such a drastic step (especially if no warning went out), the decision was Michael's. He had to know he was straddling the fence and has been for a very long time.
 
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