Olympus E-xx series to be DISCONTINUED

newe said:

I guess Olympus wants to leave us in the dark for some reason.
Pity, they had such potential.

-Bill

Eric Coleman said:

OK. A day has passed since my original post. It certainly has
sparked some discussion!!

People want to know, what's my point?? Well... here it is.

People on this forum keep wondering and asking if there'll be an
E-30. The answer is NO. They want to know if Olympus is listening
to us and if they will put the features WE want in future
generations of the E-series. The answer is NO. Simply put, Olympus
is abandoning us.

Am I angry about this? You bet. When I purchased my E-10 two years
ago, I did not just buy a camera. I PURCHASED A CAMERA SYSTEM. In
addition to just the camera, I also purchased the TCON-14b,
TCON-300s, WCON-08, FL-40, and the RM-CB1. (Not to mention
additional memory, and several high quality 62mm filters.) It was a
pretty big investment. The idea was that when Olympus came out with
future generations of the E-series, these accessories would be
usable on the new models. It seemed like a good decision at the
time. Here's why...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I am sure they will break the silence next year with a "big bang". It will be something "groundbreaking", like many years ago, when the om-1 came to the market. I think that they work busily on the 3:4 system and the product

will be a very compact and lightweight interchangable SLR. I am waiting (and saving) for that.

Rudi

I see nothing wrong with a max shutter speed of 1/640 when you gain flash synch all the way up to max speed. A good trade off IMO (and I do racing photography).

As for the ISO thing, I would have preferred 50 ISO with less noise than 80 we got...if that's really true.

Of the "system accessories" I bought for my E-10 the only things I assumed I could carry forwards to the next generation are CF memoryand hopefully the FL-40 flash.

Mike Veglia
http://www.motorsportvisions.com

Not when it comes to DSLRs. You can check out all kind of samples online. The difference between an $80 lens and a $280 lens is VERY apparent on the new 6MP DSLRs. A lot of people were mistakenly dissapointed with the performance of these cameras when the first samples were made available from Japan. Later we saw what a difference a better lens makes. If you are happy with your photo quality from an $80 lens, go see if you can't borrow/try out one of the nicer APO lenses or something similar. You will probably be so exstatic that you float off into the cloads.

Forrest said:

Forrest41926 said:

Now the overhyped DSlr's:
They have interchangable lenses but.....you need a VERY good (read
expensive) lens to match the capabilities of that camera's.

Click to expand...

A brand-new 50 mm f/1.8 will set you back $80 ... and it's
optically quite a lot better than 90% of what's out there. What's
TRULY expensive is buying the SAME lens twice in an E-10 and an
E-20!

Click to expand...

Member said:

Not when it comes to DSLRs. You can check out all kind of samples
online. The difference between an $80 lens and a $280 lens is VERY
apparent on the new 6MP DSLRs. A lot of people were mistakenly
dissapointed with the performance of these cameras when the first
samples were made available from Japan. Later we saw what a
difference a better lens makes. If you are happy with your photo
quality from an $80 lens, go see if you can't borrow/try out one of
the nicer APO lenses or something similar. You will probably be so
exstatic that you float off into the cloads.

Click to expand...

No, that's a generalization. It's true a lot of the time, but you obviously haven't used this particular $80 lens. Check image samples on the web, MTF charts, whatever, and you'll see that an $80 EF 50/1.8 consumer prime is sharper at any aperture than a $1,500 EF 100-400L.

I have the f/1.4 version of this lens, and know from personal experience that this is sharper at any aperture than my 16-35L. That makes a $340 lens being sharper than a $1,340 lens. The color rendition, contrast, bokeh, build quality and autofocus speed aren't as good in the prime, but sharpness is definately better.

So, anybody who says expensive lenses are always better than affordable lenses, or that you need an expensive lens to use a DSLR has a little something in common with a naked emporer we know.

gagefx,

Yes, the sushi here is fantastic. The Japanese really put a lot of importance on food. Not only the tast, but also the presentation.

I have come to really love the food here, all types, not just sushi or sashimi.

When I go back to the States, or out of the country, I always can't wait to get back to Japan because I miss the food so much.

Jeff
--
http://www.sushicam.com

Finally, made my mind up and decided on the E20. Tonight I went to circuit city to test the camera out. When I couldn't find the camera I asked the salesman who said that circuit city had stopped selling the camera because it was about to be discountined. The expected the new model before christmas.

Keep in mind that the camera is still being sold on the web site and the quality of salespeople at circuit city. Stilll, the camera was no where to be found, not even on demonstration display. Makes me wonder .....

ff

eric coleman said:

Hi all,

Everybody wants to know if there will be a successor to the E-20.
The answer is NO.

I attended the COMDEX show today in Las Vegas and went straight to
the Olympus booth to get the answer. I spoke with several Oly
people about this and most of them were suspiciously vague on the
subject. I finally cornered one tech person and after some intense
interrogation he finally admitted to me (strictly off the record,
mind you) that Olympus has NO plans to continue the E-xx series.
The company is not working on anything along these lines. The main
reason being that the basic design of the camera doesn't easily
accommodate the next generation of image sensors.

I also got the feeling, based on what he was saying, that Oly took
a real beating on the E-xx product line. He said that an extremely
high number of units were returned due to defects in focusing and
shutter failure. (As if we didn't already know that!)

The good (??) news is that Oly is developing a removable lens model
that will utilize the next generations of image sensors. He had no
idea, however, when it will be introduced.

Also, no models are planned that will utilize the TCON-300
extention lens design.

So there you have it. Unconfirmed confirmation that the E-xx series
is DEAD. If you're thinking of getting the latest prosumer digital
SLR camera, don't wait for Olympus, get a Canon or Nikon.

------------------
Eric Coleman, reporting today from COMDEX

Click to expand...

Omigod!! I guess I'll have to muddle through the next few years just using the best photographic tool I've come across in a long time. I guess I'll have to forgo upgrades and settle for excellence. I guess I'll have to use a camera that I can't reach the limits of until one is produced that I can't dream of. I guess I'll just have to not like all the superb images this camera can produce while I'm waiting for that ultimate model to be produced in the future that can produce other superb images. I guess I'll just have to be bitter because the Silver Cloud is not going to be produced in the future.

--
Archie
One day at a time

Frank Filippis said:

Finally, made my mind up and decided on the E20. Tonight I went to
circuit city to test the camera out. When I couldn't find the
camera I asked the salesman who said that circuit city had stopped
selling the camera because it was about to be discountined. The
expected the new model before christmas.
Keep in mind that the camera is still being sold on the web site
and the quality of salespeople at circuit city. Stilll, the camera
was no where to be found, not even on demonstration display. Makes
me wonder .....

Click to expand...

Last July I stopped at CC to try out an E-10. It was gone. The salesman told me that they were no longer going to carry it because the camera was too much (not money) for the average CC customer. Apparently, the sales didn't justify the cost to keep them in stock. At least that's what I was told.
--
Cheers,
markE

• Oly E-20, LiPo, FL-40, WCON, TCON, Wacom Graphire II, Epson PS 820

-Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/marke

Your website mentions you lived in LA a while. What part? As you have been living in Japan and have the best Sushi in the world, what LA restaurants would you say compare most favorably with Japan?

GageFX

jeff laitila said:

gagefx,

Yes, the sushi here is fantastic. The Japanese really put a lot
of importance on food. Not only the tast, but also the
presentation.

I have come to really love the food here, all types, not just sushi
or sashimi.

When I go back to the States, or out of the country, I always can't
wait to get back to Japan because I miss the food so much.

Jeff
--
http://www.sushicam.com

Click to expand...

--

E-10, LiPo, FL-40, Stroboframe 120 QF, Lumiquest Softbox, Speedotron Force 10s, AlienBees, HP P1100, Epson 777, Epson 1280

I found it very interesting reading your history and views on the Olympus and E-xx situation. I can understand everything you said and agree with much of it. I never before considerc myself hving "bought into a system" and I can see how others could have made their decision on the E by considering their purchase as an investment in a system. I am fortuante that the E-10 has always been a temporary tool for me as the (hopefully) 1Ds will be after the E-10. The E-10 is a great tool and my upgrade will not ve a pursuit of the next/best. If it was, I would have bought an E20, D1, S1 D30, D60, D100, D1X, 1D and S2 Before my 1Ds purchase. I am not interested in buying each new thing so the E has served me well and the 1Ds looks like the marking of the time to move up. My E-10 has not been the first camera in a system, but my 3rd (digital) camera in my photography career.

A couple things I take issue with: Your conclusions of the E-10 image quality. I ASSURE you the image qualtiy OUT OF CAMERA is better than your two previous cameras. I have used both and there is no comparison. They may have provided more consumer images straight from the card, but certainly not better .

The second issue is your Monday morning quaterbacking. It is a minor issue as your story flows nicely, but if you bought your E-10 when you say you did, there is no way you wuold have know of the proliferation of the C2020 heritage. At the time the E-10 came out the only replacement was the 3030. The 3000 is the same camera as the 3030 and cant be considered any sort of upgrade. The 2020 was a 2000 with minor operating fixes. The 300 was an upgrade and then the 3030 was, again, a fix of operational issues. So at the time the E-10 came out there were only TWO incarnations of the series - not a whole series that shows any sort of consistant pattern. The Monday morning quarterbacking comes in when you can NOW look back and see the 2020,3030,4040, and now 5050, but those all didnt exist back then. The series could have easily ended with the 3030 and then you'd have an E-10/20 situation with no expectation of a E30.

I say this nt because it's important but only because I'm an anal sort who cant let inconsistancies slip by.

I'm sorry Oly let you down. That is really too bad. I also dont know what to tell you. PLenty of others may tell you to invest in Nikon or Canon as they have quite a future, but I have to believe the other companies with move towards "digital" glass and who's to say they will use the same mounts in the future. I dont know either way, but neither does anyone else.

Good luck with your camera (I dont even remember what you even have or use. Still E-10? I'm so confused.)

I'm sure I've upset you as I rub most people the wrong way. No offense intended.

GageFX

Eric Coleman said:

The E-10 would be my third Olympus digital camera in three years. I
started out with a D-600L, which was a darned good camera in it's
time. A year later, I moved up to the C2020, also a great camera. I
was a bit surprised at the rapid succession of improved models that
spawned from the C2020.... C2030, C2040, C3030, 3040, 4040 etc.
etc. etc. It seemed that every month Olympus came out with an
improved model in this series. There's a 5050 coming out tomorrow,
I think. I really liked my C2020, but what I really wanted was a
digital SLR. So... when the E-10 came out, I jumped at it. I just
assumed that there would be a proliferation of improved models from
the E-10, just like what happened with the C2020 series. My
experiences with Olympus digital cameras were positive prior to the
E-10, so I decided to stick with Olympus when the E-10 came out.
The logic being that my investment in all those accessories could
be transferred to later versions of the E-series.

After using the E-10 for two years I have come to the conclusion
that E-10 and E-20 image quality just isn't good enough. It has a
long way to go before it even approaches film quality. I have to
post process just about ALL my images in Photoshop to make them
look good. I didn't have to do that with the D600L or the C2020!!

Click to expand...

--

E-10, LiPo, FL-40, Stroboframe 120 QF, Lumiquest Softbox, Speedotron Force 10s, AlienBees, HP P1100, Epson 777, Epson 1280

The only thing you forget is that the 50mm lens is fixed focus and behaves like a 75mm on most DSLr's. So your comparison is completeley useless.

The issue is to have a lens equal to the Olympus one. 35-140mm 2-2.4......those aren't cheap

Forrest said:

Forrest41926 said:

Not when it comes to DSLRs. You can check out all kind of samples
online. The difference between an $80 lens and a $280 lens is VERY
apparent on the new 6MP DSLRs. A lot of people were mistakenly
dissapointed with the performance of these cameras when the first
samples were made available from Japan. Later we saw what a
difference a better lens makes. If you are happy with your photo
quality from an $80 lens, go see if you can't borrow/try out one of
the nicer APO lenses or something similar. You will probably be so
exstatic that you float off into the cloads.

Click to expand...

No, that's a generalization. It's true a lot of the time, but you
obviously haven't used this particular $80 lens. Check image
samples on the web, MTF charts, whatever, and you'll see that an
$80 EF 50/1.8 consumer prime is sharper at any aperture than a
$1,500 EF 100-400L.

I have the f/1.4 version of this lens, and know from personal
experience that this is sharper at any aperture than my 16-35L.
That makes a $340 lens being sharper than a $1,340 lens. The color
rendition, contrast, bokeh, build quality and autofocus speed
aren't as good in the prime, but sharpness is definately better.

So, anybody who says expensive lenses are always better than
affordable lenses, or that you need an expensive lens to use a
DSLR has a little something in common with a naked emporer we know.

Click to expand...

--
E10-WCON08B-TCON14B-LiPO grip-FL40 & E100RS

Thanks Rob, you really can't compare prime lenses with zooms. Prime lenses are almost always going to be sharper than an equivilantly priced zoom (relatively speaking of course). If you want a lens equivilent to what's on the Exx, you are going to spend good money. Although prime lenses are superior at a given focal length, I have very rarely used them. I usually find myself stuck somewhere where I can't adjust my position relative to the subject matter and being able to zoom is key to getting the composition I want. Also, you can perform some pretty nifty perspective tricks with zooms.

Rob van den Broek said:

Forrest said:

rob van den broek said:

Not when it comes to DSLRs. You can check out all kind of samples
online. The difference between an $80 lens and a $280 lens is VERY
apparent on the new 6MP DSLRs. A lot of people were mistakenly
dissapointed with the performance of these cameras when the first
samples were made available from Japan. Later we saw what a
difference a better lens makes. If you are happy with your photo
quality from an $80 lens, go see if you can't borrow/try out one of
the nicer APO lenses or something similar. You will probably be so
exstatic that you float off into the cloads.

Click to expand...

No, that's a generalization. It's true a lot of the time, but you
obviously haven't used this particular $80 lens. Check image
samples on the web, MTF charts, whatever, and you'll see that an
$80 EF 50/1.8 consumer prime is sharper at any aperture than a
$1,500 EF 100-400L.

I have the f/1.4 version of this lens, and know from personal
experience that this is sharper at any aperture than my 16-35L.
That makes a $340 lens being sharper than a $1,340 lens. The color
rendition, contrast, bokeh, build quality and autofocus speed
aren't as good in the prime, but sharpness is definately better.

So, anybody who says expensive lenses are always better than
affordable lenses, or that you need an expensive lens to use a
DSLR has a little something in common with a naked emporer we know.

Click to expand...

--
E10-WCON08B-TCON14B-LiPO grip-FL40 & E100RS

Click to expand...

A year ago when I bought my E-10 I was searching the big stores for the best price on the E-10. I went into Best Buy and was surprised they no longer had any. I asked the sales person why and he said "Because it is a really bad camera and it doesnt sell very well. Olympus has sotopped making them because no one is buying them." I asked if there were any replacement for the camera and he said "no." This was a week before the E-20 went up for sale which I know about at the time.

I also over heard the same sales person tell another customer to ONLY use ALKALINE batteries in their digital camera - rechargables would break the camera.

These people are idiots and nothing they say can be believed. I think they just make stuff up because they dont know wnything so they assume you wont know anything either.

GageFX

markE said:

Frank Filippis said:

Finally, made my mind up and decided on the E20. Tonight I went to
circuit city to test the camera out. When I couldn't find the
camera I asked the salesman who said that circuit city had stopped
selling the camera because it was about to be discountined. The
expected the new model before christmas.
Keep in mind that the camera is still being sold on the web site
and the quality of salespeople at circuit city. Stilll, the camera
was no where to be found, not even on demonstration display. Makes
me wonder .....

Click to expand...

Last July I stopped at CC to try out an E-10. It was gone. The
salesman told me that they were no longer going to carry it because
the camera was too much (not money) for the average CC customer.
Apparently, the sales didn't justify the cost to keep them in
stock. At least that's what I was told.
--
Cheers,
markE

• Oly E-20, LiPo, FL-40, WCON, TCON, Wacom Graphire II, Epson PS 820

-Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/marke

Click to expand...

--

E-10, LiPo, FL-40, Stroboframe 120 QF, Lumiquest Softbox, Speedotron Force 10s, AlienBees, HP P1100, Epson 777, Epson 1280

gagefx said:

A year ago when I bought my E-10 I was searching the big stores for
the best price on the E-10. I went into Best Buy and was surprised
they no longer had any. I asked the sales person why and he said
"Because it is a really bad camera and it doesnt sell very well.
Olympus has sotopped making them because no one is buying them." I
asked if there were any replacement for the camera and he said
"no." This was a week before the E-20 went up for sale which I know
about at the time.

I also over heard the same sales person tell another customer to
ONLY use ALKALINE batteries in their digital camera - rechargables
would break the camera.

These people are idiots and nothing they say can be believed. I
think they just make stuff up because they dont know wnything so
they assume you wont know anything either.

Click to expand...

I agree with these people having no idea what they're talking about. Having been in retail on/off for the past 20 years, I've seen it more than I care to think about. But you are absolutely correct: They make stuff up because they don't know the answer, and they assume you don't either.

The reality of the thing is, these people don't make much money, and they are required to spend more time with other responsibiities that don't help their product knowledge. So there's no time to learn about what they're actually selling! That's what I like about the little pro shops though (it was this way in the bike business too). The employees usually HAVE to know their product, because the success of the business depends on quality service, as opposed to high sales. This is where you'll usually find the product techies and the "addicts", because they have a passion for the product/medium to the point of living it as a lifestyle. They are allowed to showcase their brain to the customers.

In the pro bike trade, we used to go to the trade shows and DEVOUR the information like a pride of hungry lions. But these were not open to the publlic. I imagine it's a similar situation at these big photo expos. I would love to attend one someday and put on my lion suit!
--
Cheers,
markE

• Oly E-20, LiPo, FL-40, WCON, TCON, Wacom Graphire II, Epson PS 820

-Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/marke

markE said:

gagefx said:

A year ago when I bought my E-10 I was searching the big stores for
the best price on the E-10. I went into Best Buy and was surprised
they no longer had any. I asked the sales person why and he said
"Because it is a really bad camera and it doesnt sell very well.
Olympus has sotopped making them because no one is buying them." I
asked if there were any replacement for the camera and he said
"no." This was a week before the E-20 went up for sale which I know
about at the time.

I also over heard the same sales person tell another customer to
ONLY use ALKALINE batteries in their digital camera - rechargables
would break the camera.

These people are idiots and nothing they say can be believed. I
think they just make stuff up because they dont know wnything so
they assume you wont know anything either.

Click to expand...

I agree with these people having no idea what they're talking
about. Having been in retail on/off for the past 20 years, I've
seen it more than I care to think about. But you are absolutely
correct: They make stuff up because they don't know the answer, and
they assume you don't either.

The reality of the thing is, these people don't make much money,
and they are required to spend more time with other responsibiities
that don't help their product knowledge. So there's no time to
learn about what they're actually selling! That's what I like about
the little pro shops though (it was this way in the bike business
too). The employees usually HAVE to know their product, because the
success of the business depends on quality service, as opposed to
high sales. This is where you'll usually find the product techies
and the "addicts", because they have a passion for the
product/medium to the point of living it as a lifestyle. They are
allowed to showcase their brain to the customers.
In the pro bike trade, we used to go to the trade shows and DEVOUR
the information like a pride of hungry lions. But these were not
open to the publlic. I imagine it's a similar situation at these
big photo expos. I would love to attend one someday and put on my
lion suit!
--
Cheers,
markE

• Oly E-20, LiPo, FL-40, WCON, TCON, Wacom Graphire II, Epson PS 820

-Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/marke

Click to expand...

When I was searching for a place to buy my E-10, I stopped at the Good Guys and asked if they had the E-10 by Olympus. He said no, that's a really good camera and we had a hard time selling it to the general walk in public because of the price. He did say he could order it though.

Vince Lorto said:

With the research I've been doing lately on the E-xx's leaf
shutter, I can't see how they would be able to make the E-xx's any
better. I think the E's were doomed when Oly picked the leaf
shutter in the first place. Leaf shutters are slow compared to the
other shutter (can't remember what they call it) for 35mm.

Click to expand...

Yes, the leaf shutter is slower than the focal plane, but there are trade-offs for everything. It is much easier to synch a leaf shutter to flash. I worked with RB-67's for years with a max 1/500 shutter speed, but my favorite subjects are people, and I love the leaf shutter. It is one of the reasons I chose the E-10.

You pays yer money and you takes yer choice.

Reg

Thiis is true. This is one bright spot on the E Series. They probably would've gotten a lot more buyers if they sold this feature. A lot of people complain about max flash sync speeds of other cameras. But the whole point of this thread is "Where does Oly go from here (as regards to the E series)". Too many people want faster shutters, better ISO range, and better DoF. It's obvious that Oly hasn't figured out how to make the leaf shutter go any faster (nor has anyone else in the last 20 years) but they're stuck with it because the focal plane causes eventual dust on the CCD. It seems to me that they chose a lot of things that are very hard (if not impossible) to be able to improve upon. I will be very surprised if we see an E-30 in the future.

Reg Hearn said:

Vince Lorto said:

With the research I've been doing lately on the E-xx's leaf
shutter, I can't see how they would be able to make the E-xx's any
better. I think the E's were doomed when Oly picked the leaf
shutter in the first place. Leaf shutters are slow compared to the
other shutter (can't remember what they call it) for 35mm.

Click to expand...

Yes, the leaf shutter is slower than the focal plane, but there are
trade-offs for everything. It is much easier to synch a leaf
shutter to flash. I worked with RB-67's for years with a max
1/500 shutter speed, but my favorite subjects are people, and I
love the leaf shutter. It is one of the reasons I chose the E-10.

You pays yer money and you takes yer choice.

Reg

Click to expand...

--

But what do I know? I'm just a servant to the ancient Sumerian god, Gozer the Gozerian.

Member said:

Thanks Rob, you really can't compare prime lenses with zooms.
Prime lenses are almost always going to be sharper than an
equivilantly priced zoom (relatively speaking of course). If you
want a lens equivilent to what's on the Exx, you are going to spend
good money. Although prime lenses are superior at a given focal
length, I have very rarely used them. I usually find myself stuck
somewhere where I can't adjust my position relative to the subject
matter and being able to zoom is key to getting the composition I
want. Also, you can perform some pretty nifty perspective tricks
with zooms.

Click to expand...

Zooms can be an indespensable tool. Especially in landscapes, if you shoot near the edges of cliffs, in canyons, on the sides of mountains, or anywhere else you can't just walk forward or back.

But they aren't really necessary -- you can do photography without a zoom. I own one zoom, a 16 to 35, and from the exif data, more than 90% of what I've shot with that lens was at 16 mm. Turns out this is pretty common -- most people tend to shoot their zooms at the extremes of the range, and could get by with two primes.

The E-10 lens is a fine piece of glass, and it's a rare SLR lens that's an f/2 zoom ... but the arguement that a DSLR should never be used without a thousand dollar lens. Primes are much less expensive, better quality, faster, lighter, and can be put to just as good ( or better ) use. I'm just saying you should like your E-10 because it's a great camera at a fantastic value -- not because you want to think the Canon or Nikon is too expensive.

markE59102 said:

The reality of the thing is, these people don't make much money,
and they are required to spend more time with other responsibiities
that don't help their product knowledge. So there's no time to
learn about what they're actually selling!

Click to expand...

You spend too much time making excuses for them. The brief period of time I spent in retail I made sure I knew everything about what we sold so I could both tell the customer and also know for myself. This was NEVER required of me by the owner/manager but was something that just made sense to me on a personal level.

I do not have an employee mentality - I'm a business owner type - and even when I had my first retail job in high school I was running the store after just a couple weeks. It was a small magic shop that had been around for 50 years. The place was a mess and nothing was organized and my only instructions were to stand the and ring up items on the register. I was the only one in the store so I had to answer questions to I dug into the mess to find and learn anything I could. I found what was at the bottom of bins and piles that I'm sure the owner hadn't seen in years. I learned every trick in the magic case and dug up every costume and prop and personally tested every prank in the practical joke case (except for those damn stink bombs - I've NEVER found those funny). There was agirl that started and she was dumb as a rock but she jumped in and tried to help everyone, was first to answer the phone and she didnt know anythign about anything and all her customers either left or I had to jump in and help them before they left in disgust.

These employees need to do EVERYTHING they are there to do and if they dont it is their fault. The MANAGERS are also not doing their jobs in training these people, but that is a seperate issue. We'll get into that in next weeks class.

Can you tell I'm getting very fed up with idiots lately?

GageFX

--

E-10, LiPo, FL-40, Stroboframe 120 QF, Lumiquest Softbox, Speedotron Force 10s, AlienBees, HP P1100, Epson 777, Epson 1280

gagefx said:

You spend too much time making excuses for them. The brief period
of time I spent in retail I made sure I knew everything about what
we sold so I could both tell the customer and also know for myself.
This was NEVER required of me by the owner/manager but was
something that just made sense to me on a personal level.

I do not have an employee mentality - I'm a business owner type -
and even when I had my first retail job in high school I was
running the store after just a couple weeks. .........

Click to expand...

Rembvrijn said:

These employees need to do EVERYTHING they are there to do and if
they dont it is their fault.

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You come from a different world, my friend. People in general, and the YOUNG kids in particular (whom mostly occupy these positions), don't give at rats a$$ about the company they work for or (more disconcerting still) the customer that justifies their existence. ALL they care about is the MONEY and since the $ for these positions isn't that great, neither is their interest in it. You are lucky if you can even get them to show up for work!

This isn't an excuse for their apathy or the lack of training ........ I fault the Manager's mostly; however, I empathise with them. There is not a "salesman of the month" waiting in the wings if they fire the dolt they have........just some similar kid who won't give a rats behind either.....and maybe won't even show up. Still if it were me I would keep a better eye on them and fire away........always looking for that diamond in the rough.

I've had many part time jobs over the years to supplement my income and I always made an effort to learn the products that I was selling even though I was only a part-timer. By and large, I was the exception and it's only getting worst. The half-truths and outright lies I have heard from other salesman drove (and still drive) me crazy.

I ALWAYS do my homework and almost always know the products I am shopping for far better than the "salesman" I deal with today. To me, they are all cashiers.....that's all I expect out of them. Listen to them at your own risk.

Larry