Who else wants a touchscreen on the next NEX?

Yes please!

Though it all comes down to the UI. If it's anything like my Sony TX5 and it has 4 custom shortcuts on the left of the screen to quickly change settings, then definitely! However if it is terribly implemented, then I couldn't care less.

I think having a touchscreen could work really well with the NEX. Keep the SLT's Alphas for those who want a small form factor size with manual controls through physical buttons and make the NEX 'tech gadgety casual orientated' with less buttons (like it is now) BUT now allow the option for full manual controls via a touch screen.
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Straylight Run
 
Yes please!

Though it all comes down to the UI. If it's anything like my Sony TX5 and it has 4 custom shortcuts on the left of the screen to quickly change settings, then definitely! However if it is terribly implemented, then I couldn't care less.

I think having a touchscreen could work really well with the NEX. Keep the SLT's Alphas for those who want a small form factor size with manual controls through physical buttons and make the NEX 'tech gadgety casual orientated' with less buttons (like it is now) BUT now allow the option for full manual controls via a touch screen.
--
Straylight Run
It all definitely does not come down simply to the UI. There are things that do not benefit from direct finger manipulation on screen. The only purpose of creating a touchable user interface is to get manipulation directly on the object. If it's a virtual object, it removes the need for another layer of control, such as mouse, keyboard or button. So, anything that was already displayed as an interface element that could be selected (such as a button or a menu) on the screen might be able to benefit from direct touch. If it's a physical object, you create a new layer of indirection.

For example, tapping on the screen to take a picture is nothing but mimicking a physical control. It adds clutter to the interface -- it was delegated to a button outside of the screen, and now it's on a button inside the screen. There's no way it improves usability when you already have much more important information trying to be displayed in the same space: the live view.

I suppose we can argue about using a much bigger screen, with the a live view with the same size as before and the rest of the space showing virtual controls. Either the size of the camera increases or physical buttons are removed. By removing physical buttons, you increase flexibility for control arrangement, but you lose tactical feedback. Because of that, you can no longer rely on not looking at the screen. Another effect of losing tact is that you lose accuracy. Imagine focusing or zooming: that's lens functionality you can try to put on the screen. Remember your P&S with zoom? How much more accurate was it to use those little W/T buttons to zoom? Now, same thing with focus. It will be similar if you have that on the screen and maybe even worse. So, you can't really afford to lose physical controls yet. You can then make them more flexible and suddenly you have something that resembles the NEX's interface.

By the way, this reminds me of the issue of having an EVF on the NEX, since you either must have a comparably high resolution on the EVF to have the same ability to display custom controls as you do with the live view or you have to keep checking live view when changing anything.

And, finally, how will the camera be held? The firm way people usually hold cameras is with one hand under the lens and another on the right side of the camera (for right handed people). This is not only because of the good support it provides, but also because you can then use one hand to manipulate functions of the lens -- such as zoom, aperture, focus, iFunction, etc -- and the other to manipulate functions of the camera. So, when considering a touch screen, you have to first consider how it will be reached so hand movement can be minimized.
 
Your rambling makes no sense. Picking a focal point and activating a shutter with one tap on a screen is simply faster and more accurate. Anyway the NEX has terrible stripped down controls and needs something!
 
Absolutely, This whole idea is still in infancy. But I don't think Sony has the ability to do the UI very well. It will take a few years. In the meantime I hope they at least put up an intuitive menu combined with with the wheel.
 
Your rambling makes no sense. Picking a focal point and activating a shutter with one tap on a screen is simply faster and more accurate. Anyway the NEX has terrible stripped down controls and needs something!
Rambling? Mind being a little more friendly?

You should read the entire thread before replying to a single isolated post of mine. I did mention before that picking focal points through the touch screen was one benefit of having a touch screen. In that isolated message, I mentioned that shutter release as a tap by itself makes no sense.
 
I also have the Sony TX7 and I love the touchscreen on it, makes everything so easy to change. Count me in for a touchscreen on the NEXt NEX.
 
If they make it like the GH2, then yes. Touchscreens are great for AF point selection. But make it possible to get rid of all the other on screen touch screen icons which are useless at best and get in the way at worst.

And keep the physical controls points.
 
My firrst reaction would be no!

I don't think touch screen adds much to a camera. Look I held the camera in my right hand (with the grip) With my index finger I can activate the shutter. with my thumb I can control the othere buttons. The screen is not in reach of my fingers of my right hand (I am right handed)

With my left hand I support the lens for stability, there is no way to control a touchscreen with my left hand...

Then comes the flip screen, a very usefull thing, but will it work well when using a touchscreen?

Then your touch screen will get very dirty due to touching it with your fingers. Than the touchscreen will get cluttered with icons to tap on to do the job. I want my screen as a viewfinder, give me some imporant data about the settings and no more.

But then comes focus points. Well then a touch screen can be handy, when I get a third hand, or when my camera is on a tripod. An other thing is zooming in on a part of the LV picture to do MF. The focus points and MF are the only realy advantages of a touchscreen I think when it comes to photo taking.

When looking at your pictures I find pressing the wheel a good way to go, not having to go with your finger over the picture to show the next one, giving your viewers the best view on the screen..

So yes a touch screen can be handy in some cases, but mostly I prefer normal controls.
 
I'm with you on the EVF. The one thing I'd truly enjoy for manual focus would be an EVF. I'd say the current layout on the NEX is about as elegant an interface as one could expect. Touch Screen is an outstanding interface for a universal device like a smartphone but with a dedicated camera this is really just silly.

Now, picture the day when an attachable EVF finally does come out. You'll be able to operate everything on the camera without taking your eye away from the viewfinder. A touch screen will offer you no such convenience and possibly cause problems. Touch screen for a camera of this caliber only makes sense until you actually think about it. It pretty much only makes sense for a dumbed down product that assumes the least of its target market.
 
This might be a little bit hard for people here to understand, but if you're after a NEX camera with more direct physical buttons and more ergonomically designed (therefore bigger camera), more lenses and actual flash options, those cameras already exist: The Sony alpha dslrs/SLTs.

NEX is all about portability. With small size comes compromises. Having a touch screen to control menu settings would be PERFECT if implemented properly. The camera could still keeps it's small size without the need for adding any more unnecessary physical buttons and you'd be able to access everything easily if it had to right interface. This would be dramatically better than having no touch screen and having to rely on 3 'soft buttons'. Touch screens also seem more geared towards the NEX target audience.
Yes please!

Though it all comes down to the UI. If it's anything like my Sony TX5 and it has 4 custom shortcuts on the left of the screen to quickly change settings, then definitely! However if it is terribly implemented, then I couldn't care less.

I think having a touchscreen could work really well with the NEX. Keep the SLT's Alphas for those who want a small form factor size with manual controls through physical buttons and make the NEX 'tech gadgety casual orientated' with less buttons (like it is now) BUT now allow the option for full manual controls via a touch screen.
--
Straylight Run
It all definitely does not come down simply to the UI. There are things that do not benefit from direct finger manipulation on screen. The only purpose of creating a touchable user interface is to get manipulation directly on the object. If it's a virtual object, it removes the need for another layer of control, such as mouse, keyboard or button. So, anything that was already displayed as an interface element that could be selected (such as a button or a menu) on the screen might be able to benefit from direct touch. If it's a physical object, you create a new layer of indirection.

For example, tapping on the screen to take a picture is nothing but mimicking a physical control. It adds clutter to the interface -- it was delegated to a button outside of the screen, and now it's on a button inside the screen. There's no way it improves usability when you already have much more important information trying to be displayed in the same space: the live view.

I suppose we can argue about using a much bigger screen, with the a live view with the same size as before and the rest of the space showing virtual controls. Either the size of the camera increases or physical buttons are removed. By removing physical buttons, you increase flexibility for control arrangement, but you lose tactical feedback. Because of that, you can no longer rely on not looking at the screen. Another effect of losing tact is that you lose accuracy. Imagine focusing or zooming: that's lens functionality you can try to put on the screen. Remember your P&S with zoom? How much more accurate was it to use those little W/T buttons to zoom? Now, same thing with focus. It will be similar if you have that on the screen and maybe even worse. So, you can't really afford to lose physical controls yet. You can then make them more flexible and suddenly you have something that resembles the NEX's interface.

By the way, this reminds me of the issue of having an EVF on the NEX, since you either must have a comparably high resolution on the EVF to have the same ability to display custom controls as you do with the live view or you have to keep checking live view when changing anything.

And, finally, how will the camera be held? The firm way people usually hold cameras is with one hand under the lens and another on the right side of the camera (for right handed people). This is not only because of the good support it provides, but also because you can then use one hand to manipulate functions of the lens -- such as zoom, aperture, focus, iFunction, etc -- and the other to manipulate functions of the camera. So, when considering a touch screen, you have to first consider how it will be reached so hand movement can be minimized.
--
Straylight Run
 
Gimmicky or not, a touchscreen would help with MF tremendously and I would upgrade in a heartbeat if they do introduce it. I'm against the touch-to-shoot though. It would no doubt introduce more shake to the shots.

Battery life can be improved.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lng0004/
err- I'm not sure I follow this train of logic. How would MF be affected with a touch-screen?
Uh, he may have been thinking of being able to zoom in on the part of the screen you touch... Now tell me if that's not going to be helpful.
 
I am going to run contrary it seems to most posters on this thread but I feel a well implemented touch screen IE for a future NEX or even any other camera without a viewfinder could actually be really good.

I teach photography and have used pretty much all the touch screen models on the market, they are all frustratingly poor, but that should not condemn the concept.

Anyone who has used an iPhone with any of the better camera apps available for it can only be amazed at what has been achieved by independent developers from all over the world in a short time.

I dare say if say Sony and Apple software techs got into bed together we could likely see some amazing developments.

Think about it ,why couldn't the camera still have conventional knobs for some things and touch for others if it worked. Why not have touch pads on the front of the camera to adjust things and have the changes appear on the touchscreen on the back. If things are well implemented you don't need to see the actual control surface just the readout. Think conventional shutter speed knobs and aperture rings.

What is wrong with being able to use single taps, double taps, swipes, pinches, held strokes, corner taps and bottom slides and other movements as well, an iPhone is living proof of the validity of such methods of operation, heck why not even voice command for shutter release!

In truth I feel we have designs that are currently not fully embracing the options that digital offer as they attempt to blend old world ideas with new world electronics and dodgy operating systems.

But think about phones......Here is a simple question, see if you can find anyone who has owns an iPhone who would rather try to text using the old keypad methods or dial in a number using a regular keypad. Touch can work and work really well, but I agree the current camera implementations are woeful.

Just my thoughts, but I would happily buy a touchscreen NEX if it really worked well.

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Zero-one imaging
 
This might be a little bit hard for people here to understand, but if you're after a NEX camera with more direct physical buttons and more ergonomically designed (therefore bigger camera), more lenses and actual flash options, those cameras already exist: The Sony alpha dslrs/SLTs.
Patronising tone notwithstanding, I strongly disagree with your assertion. There's room for many more buttons - far more than needed - without compromising existing ergonomics or size. The NEX-5 has rather good ergonomics, better than some badly-designed but much bigger cameras I've used; ergonomics isn't about size, it's about ease of handling.

Adding touch can be a help in some situations and can be ignored otherwise, but replacing existing controls with touch would have a very bad impact on the ergonomics, especially when used with manual lenses.

--
John Bean [GMT+1 aka BST]
 
Anyway the NEX has terrible stripped down controls and needs something!
You've been reading too many reviews. Set up right the nex controls are pretty good--perfect no--terrible--far from it.

My screen gets dirty enough without a bunch of fingering.
 
I am going to run contrary it seems to most posters on this thread but I feel a well implemented touch screen IE for a future NEX or even any other camera without a viewfinder could actually be really good.

I teach photography and have used pretty much all the touch screen models on the market, they are all frustratingly poor, but that should not condemn the concept.

Anyone who has used an iPhone with any of the better camera apps available for it can only be amazed at what has been achieved by independent developers from all over the world in a short time.

I dare say if say Sony and Apple software techs got into bed together we could likely see some amazing developments.
The iPhone is a general purpose device. If it was dedicated for a given task, it would have the best interface that mixes the right amount of flexibility and performance for all purposes it would have. A touch interface is a good balance for general tasks, but you should be able to see how it is not the most suitable interface for all tasks.
Think about it ,why couldn't the camera still have conventional knobs for some things and touch for others if it worked. Why not have touch pads on the front of the camera to adjust things and have the changes appear on the touchscreen on the back. If things are well implemented you don't need to see the actual control surface just the readout. Think conventional shutter speed knobs and aperture rings.
Touch pads are like bidimensional controls without any feedback at all. There needs to be uses for bidimensional controls so that it can make itself useful, otherwise you are just, for example, mimicking 2 knobs, one with each dimension. Again, that doesn't make things better.
What is wrong with being able to use single taps, double taps, swipes, pinches, held strokes, corner taps and bottom slides and other movements as well, an iPhone is living proof of the validity of such methods of operation, heck why not even voice command for shutter release!

In truth I feel we have designs that are currently not fully embracing the options that digital offer as they attempt to blend old world ideas with new world electronics and dodgy operating systems.
The problem is that you must find a way to make gestures useful. Why replace the click of a button with a much less comfortable movement, such as a swipe? On a previous post, I argued that managing virtual interface elements with touch controls is very useful, but replacing physical controls with virtual ones so that you can manage them with touches is not a benefit.
But think about phones......Here is a simple question, see if you can find anyone who has owns an iPhone who would rather try to text using the old keypad methods or dial in a number using a regular keypad. Touch can work and work really well, but I agree the current camera implementations are woeful.

Just my thoughts, but I would happily buy a touchscreen NEX if it really worked well.

--
Zero-one imaging
I can type fast on the iPhone's keyboard because it has good autocorrection. Still, many, many times, I have to correct the autocorrection. I would have to correct myself more if the autocorrection was not there, but I still have wrong text entered because of it. Even more of that happens because I have to type in more than one language. I almost never miss a key on a full size physical keyboard.

Comparing a small touch screen keyboard with a full size physical keyboard is probably not the best thing to do, but it still shows how tactical feedback is important to make things work. Imagine having 5% of your photos taken wrong or even 5% of the things you do with your camera have it perform the wrong function because you simply can no longer hit the right buttons all the time. This means you now have less control of it, which is bad for a dedicated device.
 
Gimmicky or not, a touchscreen would help with MF tremendously and I would upgrade in a heartbeat if they do introduce it. I'm against the touch-to-shoot though. It would no doubt introduce more shake to the shots.

Battery life can be improved.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lng0004/
err- I'm not sure I follow this train of logic. How would MF be affected with a touch-screen?
Uh, he may have been thinking of being able to zoom in on the part of the screen you touch... Now tell me if that's not going to be helpful.
Auto-MF assist or touch-based MF assist (which is what you're talking about) wouldn't be very helpful and aren't great ideas. It's one of the reasons I dislike the e-mount lens function for MFing. If you take any sort of close-up picture, while turning the focusing ring you are looking at too small of a piece of the image to determine DoF or readily focus. For medium-ranged shots, this isn't a problem (and somewhat useful).

I don't want this to become an "oops, you touched the screen, your focus is now all the way over here and zoomed in 7x with an optical zoom" feature.

Or are you suggesting there would be a screen lock to disable accidental touches? I'm sure at this point it would become a complaint of speed or too many steps.

Frankly, leave the touch screens to cell phones / tablets / etc.

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-mark

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mark_mcd/
 
One, several button presses that get the desired result is in fact faster than repeatedly tapping a touch screen and not getting the result I wanted because the AF point wasn't going to where I wanted. It was just finnicky and I prefer a direct control method
Doesn't sound right. Maybe you had a defective one. The touch screen on mine is very sensitive and requires less pressure than the shutter release. No "tapping", just a touch and it is also accurate.
As for tapping the screen, I don't really see the advantage over using a wired remote or the shutter button.
That's always an option.
Maybe there was a threshold control I didnt adjust right but I had to pretty deliberately touch the screen, and with more effort than the shutter button.

If there is a way to have a 2 second delay on the screen then it would work, but as I usually was working off a tripod and wanted max sharpness, it didnt work well for me because pressing the screen would move the camera.

Id rather trigger the delay, let the camera settle, then take the shot
Touching the spot you AF is great especially for video where directional buttons are difficult. Also just changing the settings is incredibly fast with the touch screen. I can change the WB, compensate,change the metering, etc in a fraction of the time compared to my Nex or dSLR's. Everything is there on the quick menu and all you have to do is touch what you want. I'm guessing that the Nex 7 will have a touch screen.

I originally thought the touch screen would be a gimmick also.

;) Fran
 
Fran, it would seem to me that the problem that is not applicable for you is a simple physical problem: finger size vs screen size. Depending on how articulate the screen is, someone with larger hands / fingers will have greater difficulty manipulating a touch-screen than someone with smaller hands / fingers.

The solution here is that you can make a screen larger and more articulate, but this would again defeat the purpose of the nex (at being a mirrorless / smaller camera)

--
-mark

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mark_mcd/
 
As for tapping the screen, I don't really see the advantage over using a wired remote or the shutter button.
That's always an option.
For most operations, I would prefer to have buttons with tactile feedback. This goes double for something like the shutter button which has the half-press function. I guess you could replace that by having one tap focus and double tap to take the photo, but I'm not sure that that's better.

Ido think, however, that tapping the screen to focus would be great and easier than using the directional pad to move the focus point around. Also, choosing menu items might be easier for most people.

But I still want some dedicated buttons
Touching the spot you AF is great especially for video where directional buttons are difficult. Also just changing the settings is incredibly fast with the touch screen. I can change the WB, compensate,change the metering, etc in a fraction of the time compared to my Nex or dSLR's. Everything is there on the quick menu and all you have to do is touch what you want. I'm guessing that the Nex 7 will have a touch screen.

I originally thought the touch screen would be a gimmick also.

;) Fran
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Gary W.
 

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