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Re: Just posted: Apple iPad 2: Tool or Toy?
- Thread starter Unum sed Leonem
- Start date
Nor does he attempt to hide this...
It's a dead giveaway when he states that the iPad could fool him into nthinking that it's 24 bit. He may or may like the display, but It's not 24 bit. Apple wont even list the bit depth on its own spec page.
Moreover anyone claiming to be a Professional retoucher does not attempt serious work on a 9x7 screen. I know no one who makes this claim.
If you think that a paid consultant for a company is an "objective" source, well enough said.
Dave
It's a dead giveaway when he states that the iPad could fool him into nthinking that it's 24 bit. He may or may like the display, but It's not 24 bit. Apple wont even list the bit depth on its own spec page.
Moreover anyone claiming to be a Professional retoucher does not attempt serious work on a 9x7 screen. I know no one who makes this claim.
If you think that a paid consultant for a company is an "objective" source, well enough said.
Dave
Just put an anti-glare screen protector on it. Problem solved! I got one off of ebay for free with an iPad case I bought, and it works great. No more glare!
Barney Britton
Leading Member
I updated the review soon after publication, it now includes a mention of shuttersnitch.
--
Technical Writer
http://www.dpreview.com
Personally I see devices like the Motorola Atrix to be the way forward. If you've got a iPad, odds are that you've got a smartphone. And considering that the iPad uses the same internals with a different screen, then why not just have a screen and a battery, and connect that to your smartphone? That way you've got one dataplan, one sync, one app account, but still two screens, two batteries and what not. All the advantages without any of the disadvantages, at a much lower price. You'll get a device that's cheaper, thinner and lasts longer.
I'd rather not carry two separate devices with so much overlap.
I'd rather not carry two separate devices with so much overlap.
Laurentiu Todie
Senior Member
See? That's the kind of "intelligent" comment that you can't comprehend to be a cheap, insulting shot.
You are insulting in most things you say.
it can be
no, it's not enough
you'd need to convince the "court" with arguments, not innuendos
that's why I think that you are an idiot
(see again? that's a clear, direct shot with arguments, not BS : )
you filled this forum with your crap for years
I think that your membership should be removed
you are a shame to the human race
how dare you?
There are a number of problems with the Atrix setup that make it far inferior to an iPad, at least for the photographer
1. The Atrix big screen dock merely upscales the phone's 940 x 540 resolution to fit the larger screen. This means inferior image quality and sharpness.
2. Laptop form factor. The beauty of the tablet form factor is that it's easy to hold in your hand, like a clipboard, without a keyboard in the way. This is great if you're standing and walking around. For example, on shoots I typically have my iPad so I can walk up to my models, show them a couple of images on the iPad to give them an idea of what poses or looks we should go for, all while holding the iPad in the same way I would hold a clipboard. Plus, when meeting with clients, it's easy to hand an iPad to them. This makes a much more engaging viewing experience, rather than sitting in front of a keyboard, at a desk or table. With an iPad, you can always add a keyboard, but with an Atrix dock you can't remove the keyboard.
3. Widescreen laptop format. Widescreen laptop formats are fine for landscape-orientation images, but they are terrible for portrait-orientation images. With an iPad, you can just turn it to portrait orientation and get a tall portrait-orientation image. You can't do this with an Atrix dock.
4. Small storage capacity. The Atrix dock has no storage of its own, so you are entirely dependent on the storage capacity of your phone.
5. No touch interface. One of the most appealing aspects of tablet devices is their touch interface and orientation-sensing capabilities. (The same with smart phones.) The Atrix dock has neither of these things. Once you start using a tablet form factor, you quickly realize the advantages of a touch interface. Sure, for heavy typing, a physical keyboard is still superior, but a touch interface for just about everything else is just excellent. No need to have an external mouse, no need to use a tiny track pad, and a touch interface can be used without being confined to a seated or desktop position.
6. Limited apps support. The Atrix dock runs Ubuntu. I just don't see any apps being designed for this platform. Certainly nothing compared to the considerable number of apps being designed for the iPad. If you want to get just a glimpse of the photography-related apps for the iPad, just check AdoramaTV's Youtube page which does an "app of the week" video:
http://www.youtube.com/user/adoramaTV#g/c/963DA108BA3E7CD6
Can we expect a similar selection and quality of photography-related apps being designed for the Atrix-Ubuntu platform? Probably not!
Keep in mind that one of the major strengths of any platform is its software support. That's what is so strong about the iPad. TONS of apps to choose from, with new and better ones being added all the time...because that's where all the users are. I just don't see this Atrix-Ubuntu platform generating as much interest, either with the consumers or with the developers. Practically every developer wants to be on the iPad. I don't see many developers wanting to be on the Atrix.
7. Will it survive? I don't see this product being hugely popular. Tablets are already cutting into laptop and netbook sales. This Atrix is neither a tablet, nor a laptop, nor a netbook. It's a strange oddity, and I don't see it getting much traction in the market.
I think the Atrix set-up is probably really nice for the traveling business person. But not for photographers.
And by the way, it's clear that you've never used an iPad if you think there is "so much overlap" between a cell phone and an iPad. Just the much larger touch screen allows so many more possibilities with the iPad. I have both an iPad and a Droid X cell phone. And while there are overlaps in what they do, after living with my Droid X and iPad for several months now, I'm actually surprised at how distinct their uses are from each other.
To put things into perspective for you, I have a 17" laptop, a 13" laptop, an iPad, and a Droid X cell phone (seen below). Technically, all of these devices are "portable" devices. Each has its uses. But when I head out of the house to do a shoot, or meet a client, or go out to a coffee shop, or whatever, I obviously have the choice to take any of these devices with me. And guess which devices I take 99% of the time: the Droid X and the iPad. My laptops hardly ever leave the house now (whereas I used to almost always have my 13" laptop with me, or at least in the trunk of my car). So take it from someone who actually has first hand experience with these various devices: I now regularly find taking an iPad is more than sufficient to leave my laptops at home...and...there really isn't as much "overlap" between an iPad and a cell phone as you think.
I wonder though.. if someone took eg. the Jobo Gigavue (250gb-500gb storage).. just flattened it out and increased the screen size.. Wouldn't this be what many many folks would rather have? At least you'd also have a field device suited to backup storage as well. Is there actually a reason an ipad doesn't have a sd slot for addt'l storage and or for transfer?
--
'Everything in photography boils down to what's sharp and what's fuzzy.'
-Gaylord Herron
--
'Everything in photography boils down to what's sharp and what's fuzzy.'
-Gaylord Herron
I'm sure everyone would like that. But no product is perfect. Everything has its pros and cons. But you have a good idea. Now you just need to find someone to make it.
But, no, I don't see that is necessarily being something that "many, many folks would rather have." Keep in mind that the millions of people who have bought and iPad, and who have stood in line to get one aren't buying it because it's a giant Gigavue, flattened out and with a bigger screen. On the contrary, they are buying it for all the things they can do with it! Heck, if you want to get a glimpse of just some of the iPad apps that are just related to photography, check out AdoramaTV's "app of the week" page at YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/user/adoramaTV#g/c/963DA108BA3E7CD6
So, again, it's what people can do with the iPad (ie, all those apps) that gets them buying the iPad. If you just made a giant Gigavue, most people would just look at it and say, "But what does it do? Where are all the apps?"
And BTW, I should probably add that by the time we get to iPad 4, 5, 6, or whatever, I'm sure we definitely will have much larger storage capacities in those iPads. But products have to all start somewhere, and move up from there.
globethrottle
Well-known member
What about the Zoom, are they going to preview this? Or is it only apple, who again just makes enough noise about a product that seems inferior to anything else?
I said devices like the Atrix, not the Atrix. By that I meant the docking onto another device. Nothing limits the resolution, as just as your computer can output to a external screen at its native resolution, so can a phone. I've got a N8 right here that outputs a HD interface to my beamer.
And as well, nothing limits the form factor. You can have a laptop, a tablet, a car dock, what ever. It can be as good as any size, and form and any aspect ratio. The only thing you need is a port that transfers a image, data and command signal, as well as power. Already everything for instance the iPad 2 connector does. You can have a touchscreen, external storage, everything is supported by the connector.
The Atrix is only the first product out the door, and flawed as such. But especially now with the launch of Android Gingerbread with a tablet interface you can have one device, with two modes.
And as well, nothing limits the form factor. You can have a laptop, a tablet, a car dock, what ever. It can be as good as any size, and form and any aspect ratio. The only thing you need is a port that transfers a image, data and command signal, as well as power. Already everything for instance the iPad 2 connector does. You can have a touchscreen, external storage, everything is supported by the connector.
The Atrix is only the first product out the door, and flawed as such. But especially now with the launch of Android Gingerbread with a tablet interface you can have one device, with two modes.
It's also great when you get a phone call or need to make a phone call while your phone is in the docking station!
Seriously, though, I find no problem having a separate phone and a separate tablet or laptop. Sometimes you want to use the phone while using the tablet (or laptop). Or sometimes, you're in a meeting where someone else is viewing your tablet, and you can still use the phone to, say, read a text message, look something up on the web, or take a phone call. Or sometimes my wife is using the iPad, while I'm off doing something else. It would kind of suck if I had to leave my cell phone with her in order for her to use the tablet. There are plenty of instances where it's advantageous to have two separate devices...where both will continue to work when separated. Besides, with the combined weight of a cell phone and a tablet like the iPad already being significantly lighter than the portable computing devices we used to carry, I kind of doubt there are many people who look at an iPad and a cell phone and are saying, "Darn, that's a lot of weight and size! We need to combine the two somehow."
Whether you were talking about the Atrix or not, I just don't see a huge market for a device where you have to dock your phone to use your tablet or sub-laptop. That isn't to say that there isn't a niche for such a device. And as I said, I do think that it might be usable for traveling business people. But it seems like a tough sell because, for one thing, it's not an "open market" kind of product. In other words, first you have to commit to the phone. Then you decide if you want to add the dock. With the other devices in the market, you don't have to commit to a phone first. You're free to pick your phone independent of your tablet or sub-laptop dock. And are manufacturers going to make universal docking stations to work across brands of cell phones? Not likely.
Anyways, like I said, there are just a lot of advantages to having a separate phone and laptop and/or tablet. But I certainly applaud Motorola for trying something new.
Seriously, though, I find no problem having a separate phone and a separate tablet or laptop. Sometimes you want to use the phone while using the tablet (or laptop). Or sometimes, you're in a meeting where someone else is viewing your tablet, and you can still use the phone to, say, read a text message, look something up on the web, or take a phone call. Or sometimes my wife is using the iPad, while I'm off doing something else. It would kind of suck if I had to leave my cell phone with her in order for her to use the tablet. There are plenty of instances where it's advantageous to have two separate devices...where both will continue to work when separated. Besides, with the combined weight of a cell phone and a tablet like the iPad already being significantly lighter than the portable computing devices we used to carry, I kind of doubt there are many people who look at an iPad and a cell phone and are saying, "Darn, that's a lot of weight and size! We need to combine the two somehow."
Whether you were talking about the Atrix or not, I just don't see a huge market for a device where you have to dock your phone to use your tablet or sub-laptop. That isn't to say that there isn't a niche for such a device. And as I said, I do think that it might be usable for traveling business people. But it seems like a tough sell because, for one thing, it's not an "open market" kind of product. In other words, first you have to commit to the phone. Then you decide if you want to add the dock. With the other devices in the market, you don't have to commit to a phone first. You're free to pick your phone independent of your tablet or sub-laptop dock. And are manufacturers going to make universal docking stations to work across brands of cell phones? Not likely.
Anyways, like I said, there are just a lot of advantages to having a separate phone and laptop and/or tablet. But I certainly applaud Motorola for trying something new.
There's a range of apps, lots of them in fact.. but here's the thing. Most of them are image editing apps -- meaning you need photos sized for editing on your iPad. Now the whole problem with this seems to be you need to first start with a standard computer or laptop, convert from Raw (for me at least as I shoot raw; and why wouldn't I post-process in raw conversion?), OR download full size jpegs; and then size for iPad (presuming native 6-7mb jpeg files wouldn't make sense given limited storage space). Then connect your computer to your iPad, upload, then use the app you wanted to retouch the photo.
Actually, can/do Apps work on a computer that has iTunes within the computer, ie. like we can play mp3s or watch video? This might be a time-saver.
The other apps that seem interesting, seem like they'd work on smartphones anyway (DOF calculators, etc).
Other apps for photography (may of them?) seem they're really built to do things to the photos you've actually shot with the iPad itself.
Other apps that look cool, don't look like there's an inherent value to portability and look like they would offer more value input into the main computer workstation processing workflow.
Then of course my earlier point.. I'd say 90% of posts that support the iPad for "Photography" reference its sharing/touchy abilities. Great, fine.. get an iPad for this if its worth it to you; especially combined with its e-Reader capabilities, GPS, games, etc.. it may offer a value proposition that makes sense. But as a 'tool' for photography itself.. for $1K first year ownership cost, for me it doesn't sell itself?
$1K can buy some great plugins, a Jobo device, and/or a Laptop. If you have a smartphone.. many of the apps still work well.
eg. Nik Complete Pkg for LR: $220
Acer Aspire Timeline X 1830: $670
'Everything in photography boils down to what's sharp and what's fuzzy.'
-Gaylord Herron
Actually, can/do Apps work on a computer that has iTunes within the computer, ie. like we can play mp3s or watch video? This might be a time-saver.
The other apps that seem interesting, seem like they'd work on smartphones anyway (DOF calculators, etc).
Other apps for photography (may of them?) seem they're really built to do things to the photos you've actually shot with the iPad itself.
Other apps that look cool, don't look like there's an inherent value to portability and look like they would offer more value input into the main computer workstation processing workflow.
Then of course my earlier point.. I'd say 90% of posts that support the iPad for "Photography" reference its sharing/touchy abilities. Great, fine.. get an iPad for this if its worth it to you; especially combined with its e-Reader capabilities, GPS, games, etc.. it may offer a value proposition that makes sense. But as a 'tool' for photography itself.. for $1K first year ownership cost, for me it doesn't sell itself?
$1K can buy some great plugins, a Jobo device, and/or a Laptop. If you have a smartphone.. many of the apps still work well.
eg. Nik Complete Pkg for LR: $220
Acer Aspire Timeline X 1830: $670
--
'Everything in photography boils down to what's sharp and what's fuzzy.'
-Gaylord Herron
Wick Smith
Senior Member
Shuttersnitch really requires a portable wireless router to be truly effective as a wireless tethering solution. The iPad cannot create an ad hoc network, but can join one. Eyefi cards also cannot yet create an ad hoc network, but the rumor is that they will.
Currently you need a normal infrastructure wifi network to make Shuttersnitch work as a wireless viewer for a camera.
I'd like to have a viewer only mode that doesn't require the files to be saved on the iPad. Even the camera connection kit requires that the pictures get transferred, not just viewed. And the HDMI kit is output only.
--
-wick
Currently you need a normal infrastructure wifi network to make Shuttersnitch work as a wireless viewer for a camera.
I'd like to have a viewer only mode that doesn't require the files to be saved on the iPad. Even the camera connection kit requires that the pictures get transferred, not just viewed. And the HDMI kit is output only.
--
-wick
I've got nothing against having multiple devices. But having multiple devices that overlap massively is inefficient.
With a iPad, you're committing at least 500$ for the device, and on top of that comes all dataplans and apps you want. With a dock, you buy a phone, and then you can decide if you want the comparably much cheaper accessory or not. Thus, the iPad has a much higher user lock-in. Now you pay at least 500 for something you can use only as such, and when it's old your only choice is to buy another one for 500. With a dock, you pay much less, and then you can at least update to the newer version of your phone, and keep using the dock with better hardware.
The only scenario where the iPad would be cheaper or offer less user-locking is for users that do not want to own a smartphone.
With a iPad, you're committing at least 500$ for the device, and on top of that comes all dataplans and apps you want. With a dock, you buy a phone, and then you can decide if you want the comparably much cheaper accessory or not. Thus, the iPad has a much higher user lock-in. Now you pay at least 500 for something you can use only as such, and when it's old your only choice is to buy another one for 500. With a dock, you pay much less, and then you can at least update to the newer version of your phone, and keep using the dock with better hardware.
The only scenario where the iPad would be cheaper or offer less user-locking is for users that do not want to own a smartphone.
David Hart
Well-known member
I just got back from a two week trip to Cancun. Prior to the trip I knew that my old laptop, a Dell 6400 with a 15" 1680 x 1050 WSXGA+ display, was not going to cut it. It was just too heavy, had too little battery life, and the display is too dim.
I was considering between the iPad, MacBook Air/Pro, and the HP DM4T laptop. I needed something that would support SD cards, Compact FLash cards, photo library and editing programs plus support to upload to facebook, support for the MKV video format (I like to watch videos on the plane), has good battery life, and a nice bright display. I also wanted a built-in HDMI port so that I could play movies and show pictures when I visit family and friends.
I didn't care as much about being able to use it as a book reader as I already have a Kindle, which works great in bright sun. Since I have the latest gen Kindle, I also have the case the case that includes the built-in booklight so I can also use it to read at night without disturbing others.
I ended up buying the 4.5 lbs HP DM4T for $956. This was about $200 to $300 more than the iPad, about $300 less than a MacBook Pro, and about $800 less than a Macbook Air. Below are the specs:
dm4t
• Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
• Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-560M Dual Core Processor (2.66 GHz, 3MB L3 Cache) with Turbo Boost up to 3.2GHz
• 1GB ATI Mobility Radeon(TM) HD 6370 Switchable Graphics [HDMI, VGA]
• 8GB DDR3 System Memory (2 Dimm)
• 640GB 7200RPM Hard Drive with HP ProtectSmart Hard Drive Protection
• No Additional Office Software
• No additional security software
• 50% OFF! One 6 Cell (standard) and One 9 Cell (over-sized) Lithium Ion Battery
• 14.0" diagonal High-Definition HP BrightView LED Display (1366 x 768)
• SuperMulti 8X DVD+ -R/RW with Double Layer Support
• HP TrueVision Webcam and Fingerprint Reader
• Intel Wireless-N Card with Bluetooth
• Standard Keyboard
• 25% OFF! HP Pavilion additional 90W AC Adapter
• HP Home & Home Office Store in-box envelope
I did find that the LED display is off a little bit in the red spectrum and that the red levels need to be bumped up. What shows up as purple on my DELL 24" 2403 shows up as more of a dark blue, depending on the angle of the LED screen. I haven't been able to find the color controls to adjust the red levels, assuming that there is one.
This little laptop has been able to handle everything that I have thrown at it, from playing high-def MKV movies, video editing, and accessing email, facebook, etc. The only complaint that I have is that the sceen is glossy and reflects light. Other than that, the colors are bright and vibrant and the blacks are black.
My thought is that the iPad will gradually morph into a laptop replacement with USB, SD, and HDMI ports. Until then my travel solution will be the HP DM4T and my Kindle eReader.
Thanks,
David
I was considering between the iPad, MacBook Air/Pro, and the HP DM4T laptop. I needed something that would support SD cards, Compact FLash cards, photo library and editing programs plus support to upload to facebook, support for the MKV video format (I like to watch videos on the plane), has good battery life, and a nice bright display. I also wanted a built-in HDMI port so that I could play movies and show pictures when I visit family and friends.
I didn't care as much about being able to use it as a book reader as I already have a Kindle, which works great in bright sun. Since I have the latest gen Kindle, I also have the case the case that includes the built-in booklight so I can also use it to read at night without disturbing others.
I ended up buying the 4.5 lbs HP DM4T for $956. This was about $200 to $300 more than the iPad, about $300 less than a MacBook Pro, and about $800 less than a Macbook Air. Below are the specs:
dm4t
• Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
• Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-560M Dual Core Processor (2.66 GHz, 3MB L3 Cache) with Turbo Boost up to 3.2GHz
• 1GB ATI Mobility Radeon(TM) HD 6370 Switchable Graphics [HDMI, VGA]
• 8GB DDR3 System Memory (2 Dimm)
• 640GB 7200RPM Hard Drive with HP ProtectSmart Hard Drive Protection
• No Additional Office Software
• No additional security software
• 50% OFF! One 6 Cell (standard) and One 9 Cell (over-sized) Lithium Ion Battery
• 14.0" diagonal High-Definition HP BrightView LED Display (1366 x 768)
• SuperMulti 8X DVD+ -R/RW with Double Layer Support
• HP TrueVision Webcam and Fingerprint Reader
• Intel Wireless-N Card with Bluetooth
• Standard Keyboard
• 25% OFF! HP Pavilion additional 90W AC Adapter
• HP Home & Home Office Store in-box envelope
I did find that the LED display is off a little bit in the red spectrum and that the red levels need to be bumped up. What shows up as purple on my DELL 24" 2403 shows up as more of a dark blue, depending on the angle of the LED screen. I haven't been able to find the color controls to adjust the red levels, assuming that there is one.
This little laptop has been able to handle everything that I have thrown at it, from playing high-def MKV movies, video editing, and accessing email, facebook, etc. The only complaint that I have is that the sceen is glossy and reflects light. Other than that, the colors are bright and vibrant and the blacks are black.
My thought is that the iPad will gradually morph into a laptop replacement with USB, SD, and HDMI ports. Until then my travel solution will be the HP DM4T and my Kindle eReader.
Thanks,
David
If there are enough photography related applications for it, I think they should review it. Can you list the photo apps that you are familiar with?
K
knox
Guest
. . for a guy who always says he does not want / like "gadgets" . . . it's incredible how much time you spend on a computer on the internet (the biggest gadget of all) arguing and posting. You are always at the top of the list of posters! Get outside . . do something new! I see you are a professor (if I have that right) . . . surely you are smarter then this and have better things to do with your life.
Knox
--
http://www.avatarphotoart.com
Alley Cats . . . Urban Tails (the book)
http://www.urbantailsbook.com
http://www.pbase.com/streetkid/galleries
--
Knox
--
http://www.avatarphotoart.com
Alley Cats . . . Urban Tails (the book)
http://www.urbantailsbook.com
http://www.pbase.com/streetkid/galleries
James C. Murray
Senior Member
PicOne wrote:
Snip.
I'm sure they could do that if they wanted to. That is the the one big obstacle for me using the iPad for much more than daily duplication and viewing.
Snip.
The cynic in me says that if you could do that, sales of the 64GB version would tank.
I'm sure they could do that if they wanted to. That is the the one big obstacle for me using the iPad for much more than daily duplication and viewing.
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