Canon arrogance or truth?

http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/canon_doesnt_need_compact_system_camera_news_306394.html
spill your thoughts ;-)

Nikon and Canon are in their own world, battling it out without paying too much about what is happening outside -- apparently, neither cares much about the small system camera market because they are doing so well with the DSLR systems. Maybe a little arrogance in there.

If I was going to buy a professional system camera right now, it would be probably Nikon since I have many years experience with that brand. I would also give Canon a glance. But I definitely would not consider an Olympus E-5

When you're the top-selling DSLR manufacturer and the top-selling compact camera manufacturer, you simply don't need to pursue some new niche category.

Simple as that.

Tom Hoots
http://thoots.zenfolio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tomhoots/
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/4330317199/albums

I think it is fair to assert that many of the mirrorless players really weren't making much headway in the DSLR market as the Canon marketing guy says (Sony probably being the exception). What to conclude from that is the question.

If the mirrorless players are just creating a new niche of second or third system cameras for photographers with too much money to spend then perhaps Canikon can just opt out of the market for an indefinite period because DSLR sales are so strong.

I suspect things are bit more zero-sum than that. Mirrorless has really been taking a lot of market share in certain markets and it is probably eroding introductory DSLR sales. This is even considering how immature some of the mirrorless systems are. If as time marches on the introductory DSLR sales drop in favor of mirrorless then things will be ugly for Canikon. It will be difficult to create a mature system quickly to "catch up".

Anyway, we'll see I guess.
--
Ken W

Rebel XT, XTi, Pany G1, LX3, FZ28, Fuji F30, and a lot of 35mm and 4x5 sitting in the closet...

dv312 said:

"Canon doesn't need to introduce a mirrorless compact system camera (CSC), according to the head of consumer imaging in Europe, as the company does not have a problem selling its existing compact and DSLR products."

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Interesting, that was precisely GM's attitude about those little Japanese cars in the 60's and 70's. Their stockholders should be worried.

dv312 said:

"Not ruling out the possibility that Canon will enter this area, Rainer stressed that if it did the reason would not be because Canon felt it had to."

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More signs of dangerous hubris in thinking what is currently successful will remain the model for the future. But he does leave the door open and despite his remarks I would be very surprised if Canon is not working away at its own better mirrorless mousetrap.

Nikon's smaller sensored mirrorless camera was rumored to be announced in a few weeks, likely delayed by the current sad events which impacted their high end enthusiast and pro DSLR facility in Sendai.

On their mirrorless venture:

http://nikonrumors.com/2011/03/10/rumor-nikons-mirrorless-camera-will-be-targeting-professionals-to-be-released-in-few-weeks.aspx?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+NikonRumors+%28NikonRumors.com%29

and

http://nikonrumors.com/2010/09/27/nikon-expects-its-mirrorless-interchangeable-lens-camera-to-help-gain-40-50-market-share.aspx

My take, mirrorless IL cameras being smaller, more convenient and less expensive to build, will continue to expand and become a (the?) major part of the IL camera market in the coming years, Canon's protestations aside.
--
Sailin' Steve

dv312 said:

http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/canon_doesnt_need_compact_system_camera_news_306394.html
spill your thoughts ;-)

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My opinion is a strange one:

It is a matter of SLR vs. rangefinder. The rangefinder camera has declined because it doesn't have the necessary technology available yet, namely, sensor, EVF, and autofocus. I think these three areas are heavily stressed and improved in recent years especially by Panasonic's GH2.

One of the main reason people still love FF rangefinder over FF SLR is the size and weight. Once the obvious advantages of SLR over rangefinder are gone, the rangefinder should reign again.

Canon think that the micro four third is a loser on the DSLR battle so they have to go somewhere else, which is the micro four third. But what I think is that they are in the right direction to develop the necessary technology (mainly autofocus) through micro four third first. Once it is mature enough, they can get back to FF, something like a crossover of Panasonic's m43 (in terms of funtionality) and Leica's rangefinder (in terms of form factor and perhaps quality). Once they did that, I think that's going to be an end of DSLR.

Disclaimer: nothing professional here, just a personal opinion.

looks like a former junkie

i think the future belongs to mirrorless systems

the DSLRs still have the advantage today with their huge legacy lenses and systems and loyal users who have used SLRs for many years, even from the film days

As new and younger generations come on board, generations with iPhone, iPad background, we'll see more adoption of the mirrorless to the SLRs due to their size, touch screen, WYSIWYG LCDs/EVFs, and simplicty

as technology of EVF matures and gets better every day there'll be less and less people missing the old OVF of yore, a technology of the past , not unlike the complex rangefinder on the Leicas

In a few years DLSRs will be relegated to a niche market, those who 're still attached to OVF and want to have access to a large base of legacy lenses

Time will tell but we'l see a big swing in camera trend for sure in the coming years
cheers ,

Seriously, the beancounters at Canon could change this guy's mind (and job) in a heartbeat. It's all about the money. People like this guy just enjoy flapping their gums at whoever will listen - it strokes their (considerable) egos.

Sony has gone 'on record' as claiming/denying all kinds of things and then done exactly the opposite in very short order. Corporate yammering means exactly ziltch.

See how that worked out for them.

Almost exactly the same attitude and logic, too.

If Canon joined m4/3 with a good model - it would be possible that in year 1 they would outsell both Oly and Panasonic ...... though it might directly undermine their own DSLR market.

The fact that the current mirrorless producers either don't have a market share in DSLR or have a RELATIVELY small one probably helps them.

Also in a digital age, perhaps it is the electronic giants with their research budgets that in the long run will become the dominating players - especially as their devices start to link in with other products such as their own 3D TV models.

No need for them, they sell good and I think the large majority of DSLR users have no problems with the size of the cams as long as it delivers. This may change in the future but not yet..

The future belongs to systems with less 'mechanics' and more 'electronics', because electronics are cheaper and last (almost) for ever.And nothing can stop that.
--
http://users.telenet.be/patric/

tkpatric said:

The future belongs to systems with less 'mechanics' and more 'electronics', because electronics are cheaper and last (almost) for ever.And nothing can stop that.
--
http://users.telenet.be/patric/

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Really? But it seems like the electronic parts are the one that doesn't last long. So it has to be replaced every few years. The total costs can actually be higher.

Arrogance.

Well they lost my upgrade from a 40D, and most likely a 15-85,mainly because of a lack of convergence. Yes I want the best IQ possible, but I also don't want to carry a camcorder with me as well, when it is technically possible to have both. I don't see why a company who created compacts with fantastic video such as the S3 IS and the TX1, couldn't manage to do it for their SLRs.

They were also arrogant enough to remove the manual adjust for focus on the 60D, and after having quite a lot of front/back focussing issues (3 lenses and 2 bodies) I wouldn't buy any PDAF without it, and I didn't see why I should jump up to the 7D (wasn't massively bothered about the alloy body).

So to cut a long story short - happy new owner of a GH2 14-140mm & 20mm. Loved my LX3.

I still like my 40D and Sigma 50mm f/1.4 combo, but even with the FOV difference, I think the 20mm will reign for a while (at least until there are other fast native m43 primes) Once the new primes arrive the canon gear my well end up on a well known aution site.

So for me Canon has missed the boat, and missed my upgrade money for this round. People may say that I've lost out on the best IQ (e.g 60D/7D) but for me the GH2 is very competitive, if not better than my 40D (3200), and has the bonus of a usable 6400 with LR 3.4RC (YMMV, but that's me)

The vast majority of entry level users who only use the kit lens, stick in auto, and have no idea why a lens hood is a must, will soon start to see people taking film with their m43, using viewfinder/LCD without manual focussing and start to wonder - let's face it most are not enthusiasts.

Canon may well find that they've missed the boat, and some of their old customers had already bought a ticket and sailed long before that.

Carl

--
http://www.cdmc.smugmug.com

normsmith said:

If Canon joined m4/3 with a good model - it would be possible that in year 1 they would outsell both Oly and Panasonic ...... though it might directly undermine their own DSLR market.

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An affordable mirrorless camera with designed from the ground up new lenses would definitely undermine their existing lens sales, their profit cow that just keeps on giving for virtually no investment. And their decent lenses are way over priced on top of that. This is a place they do not want to go until dragged kicking and screaming by the market.

normsmith said:

The fact that the current mirrorless producers either don't have a market share in DSLR or have a RELATIVELY small one probably helps them.

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This is why Panny and Olympus jumped in I'm sure, nothing to lose and everything to gain. Plus they had a smaller sensored format that simply was a natural for this, allowing smaller bodies/lenses while still retaining solid IQ. Throw in that Olympus is the king of JPEG in camera processing while Panasonic has the wherewithal to finance needed R&D to launch and grow the system, and they compliment each other in this new venture.

normsmith said:

Also in a digital age, perhaps it is the electronic giants with their research budgets that in the long run will become the dominating players - especially as their devices start to link in with other products such as their own 3D TV models.

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Yes. Actually, as I look at what Canon has done in the past year or so with their DSLR line and I'm distinctly unimpressed, mostly just amping up their sensors which is only useful if consumers buy their better glass, which most don't due to sticker shock.

Canon sells well based on bragging rights provided by glowing reviews on this very site which disregard the need for better (say "expensive") lenses. The T2i? All it did was increase MP's over it's predecessor. T3i? Added a flip LCD which Olympus featured on its consumer grade E-620 2 years ago (but how DPR drools over Canon's!). The D60? Now just a T_i on steroids, no longer pro-build.

What Canon has figured out is that it's marketing and product placement in stores that sells, much more so than technological prowess, innovation or design elegance. This is what Pan/Oly have to get their heads around.
--
Sailin' Steve

4/3 is an interesting proposition for the majors since its lens mount will be in common across all the manufacturers. I don't recall this happening since the screw mount days of the 1970's.

If Canon and Nikon joined then whatever lenses they produced would be directly usable by the existing 4/3 camera users. I for one would find that to be a good thing since both Canon and Nikon have tradionallh built very good lenses. The flip side is that i would be able to use my growing collection of m4/3 lenses with a mirror less CanoNika.

If you can't beat them, join them.

i.e. they won't join until they realize they can't beat micro four third standard .

And personally I hope that after 10 years they will have something like macro four third, a four third standard with a crop factor of 1.

Kolen said:

If you can't beat them, join them.

i.e. they won't join until they realize they can't beat micro four third standard .

And personally I hope that after 10 years they will have something like macro four third, a four third standard with a crop factor of 1.

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I am hoping someone creates for a compact FF mirrorless system, with a few good pancakes eventually

Ive read most of the comments. You guys are taking it too personally.

His comment about the mirrorless players not having an SLR presence is right on. Canon is tops in both compacts and SLRs... its not a fluke that some people make it out to be.

And, in reality he's not ever going to say one way or another what Canon is up to; they are most likely working on a system, and when they announce they want to control the entire process... they are not going to give out information just to satisfy some people on a forum.

dv312 said:

http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/canon_doesnt_need_compact_system_camera_news_306394.html
spill your thoughts ;-)

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