ZS10 Review- Not so great.

Well, it's a switch over to CMOS and they moved the video button to the outermost portion of the camera so you can tell where the priorities lie. That said, Cnet's reviews are of very low quality regardless of whether it's a cell phone or a camera imho.
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http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-cameras/panasonic-lumix-dmc-zs10/4505-6501_7-34505755.html?subj=fdba&#8706 ;=rss&tag=MR_Search+Results#reviewPage1

Review from CNET. Seems like a new model for the sake of a new model.
CNet Camera Reviews seem like Camera reviews for the sake of Camera reviews... Quite possibly the least relevant camera review site on the planet... They should stick to office equipment & maybe smart-phones that are more important to their business oriented target market....
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The Amateur Formerly Known as ' UZ'pShoot'ERS ' 'Happy Shootin'! Comments, Critique, Ridicule, Limericks, Jokes, Hi-jackings, EnthUZIastically, Encouraged... I Insist!



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Review from CNET. Seems like a new model for the sake of a new model.
CNet Camera Reviews seem like Camera reviews for the sake of Camera reviews...
Of all of the dubious web-sites that construct all too cursory "reviews", CNET seems like the most "dangerous" (in that a fair number of readers may believe what they read there), and the CNET reviewers (if anything) often (in my view) seem suspect of serving as camera-industry "lap-dogs".

If they seem neutral on a camera - well, that may be indicative of something ... or (should I say) ... the absence of something to get excited about? ...

Don't know. Newer has not looked like better with Lumix compacts for some time now. Good luck.
 
CNET are not a great review site..but

They do have a point the yellow blotching problem has been around a while at higher ISO levels.

IQ wise I see a def downturn in recent Panasonic models as well as other makers just to get a bigger mp sticker on the box.

Price seems a bit over confident as well can't say I'd pay near that for a hmmm ok ish superzoom compact. Most are not great but how many do you need anyway?

I see no reason to look at this when you can have some older and possibly better models from various makers.
 
I don't really put a lot (any) weight on CNET reviews. They are way too superficial. Note the lack of any picture comarisons -- either to the ZS7 or other brands of similar price. But if you look at the performance charts the ZS10 is at least a technically better performing camera than it's successor. Regardless, I'm unpersuaded either way by the review. I'm getting one. If it disappoints I'm returning it too. I like the ZS10s feature set.

I had planned to buy the ZS7 when it came out but never got around to it because my older Lumix FX35 was still serving my purpose and I primarily wanted the ZS7 for GPS. But I'm taking a vaca in Europe this year so ZS10 it is. For typical P&S pics it's going to be fine. I'll have my D7000 w/ me if a "bigger gun" is needed.

I agree cramming more MPs or larger zooms onto cameras using the same size sensor is annoying and a marketing gimmick supreme. But that has been the case for a decade. If one is that adamant about it though they have no business using a P&S anyway.
 
I didn't read anything in the CNET review that would deter me from getting this camera... anyone who uses ZS3/ZS7 already knows the limitations of this platform full well, and still there are a plethora of great images that keep appearing out of that platform. What it boils down to is using the technology and melding it with the art...

I will wait until the price drops to the $200 - $250 range (maybe Jan 2012?) though if I really want to get one. I'm still plenty happy with my ZS3, but am intrigued by the extended range of wide/telephoto, and the GPS...
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Cleve
 
I don't pay much attention to CNet reveiews either, but some of the points brought out seem valid in this case.

"Near-pointless touch screen" is one...to me just a pointless gimmick, but perhaps not to everyone. But short battery life? My ZS7's battery life is fairly short compared to my LX5, and if Panasonic has incorporated its sleazy camera-crippling, Panasonic-only battery design in the new model, it really could be a big issue.

I've figured I need 2 spares for my ZS7, to cover day-long ventures and hikes where recharging isn't possible. If it needed $50 batteries, that's $100 added to the price of the camera. As usual, there seems to be no information available as to whether this battery issue is in the ZS10, but I'd think it's pretty likely. That, on its own, eliminates the chance of me ever buying a TS10, but assuming by some miracle they use normal battery compatibility, there's still not much new.

3D? How much longer will the 3D fad last...completely worthless. MOS sensor? OK if 1080i is really important, instead of 720p, at the price of still image quality. The same 460k LCD resolution, instead of the 610 or 920k that some are using. Faster burst speed is to me like the megapixel race, or something DSLR owners compare when racing their cameras...

So other than a little extra zoom range, I see nothing other than an extra $100 to have to spend (probably) for batteries, and am glad I went for the ZS7 while the price is down and it's available.
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Gary
Photo albums: http://www.pbase.com/roberthouse
 
Gary R. wrote:

... My ZS7's battery life is fairly short compared to my LX5, and if Panasonic has incorporated its sleazy camera-crippling, Panasonic-only battery design in the new model, it really could be a big issue.

I've figured I need 2 spares for my ZS7, to cover day-long ventures and hikes where recharging isn't possible. If it needed $50 batteries, that's $100 added to the price of the camera. As usual, there seems to be no information available as to whether this battery issue is in the ZS10, but I'd think it's pretty likely.
My impression is that "chipped" (and even more insidiously, feature-crippling if 3rd-party batteries are used) batteries are a certainty from here on out in the case of all Lumix camera models ...

Other than this statement here, I shall avoid dipping into the no doubt heated frenzy over this (and any other pinhead image-sensor, particularly of the CMOS variety) new Lumix compact camera models. These discussions seem to (implicitly, and endemically) quickly become steeped in the warped psychology of the "fan-boy" and the "anti-fan-boy" syndromes (perhaps the use of the term "person" would be more inclusive of women in addition to men?).

The new "sacrificial widget" camera model becomes a kind of "Rorschach test" where virtually nobody listens - and the "discussion" all too often degenerates into a bevy of resentful and spiteful "salvos" fired by those who believe that their espoused prior understandings and attitudes reign supreme and invariant.

Lest I be accused as being a hypocrite in this respect, I would point out that (all) that I did was look at the Panasonic ZS10 sample at 100%, and remarked that (I think) that the NR (and perhaps the post-Sharpening added in an attempt to to "atone for some of the sins of the NR in the first place") appears to my eyes to have failed to render the spatial-frequency (fine-details) that such a high Mpixel count image-sensor as that in the ZS10 is (according to some) allegedly supposed to enable (and not simply destroy, thanks to in-camera JPG processing algorithms).

If people are happy with downwardly re-sampling such images to smaller pixel-sizes, and to live with the (then less ugly) results - then more power to them ! ... :P ... I hereby go silent on the ZS10.
 
--If you don't like this review by CNET I suggest for a much more detailed review look at photographyblog.com for their reviews.

In photographyblogs review and comparison the ZS10 still is at the top of its class in most respects. Expect the IQ of the pictures from its sensor to be greatly improved next year when Pany will likely install their new 16MP BSI sensor just introduced in the HX-WA10 cam.
 
This isn't necessarily a ZS10 question (so you can answer 8^), but it puzzles me that firmware hacks are so freely available for Canon models, yet apparently nothing elsewhere. I wonder if it's just because of the huge Canon user base, but it sure would be nice if someone knowledgable in such things was able to customize the firmware in the same manner as with Canon models. There are lots of possibilities, but one would be eliminating the battery garbage they've put in (unless there's actual camera-function circuitry in the battery itself, which seems unlikely).

The availability of such a hack just might also discourage them from continuing in their current path of crippling cameras unless their batteries are used, since it would be easy to circumvent. As it stands, the LX5 is my last Panasonic, but if that particular issue were solved, who knows. Just wondering if it's possible, and if so, how to get someone interested in doing it.
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Gary
 
Why am I seeing all this negativity towards CNET reviews?

No, they aren't the most through in testing the cameras, but I never saw any evidence of bias or nepotism.

And looking at the review, the ZS10 doesn't seem especially remarkable either way. It's unfortunate how there doesn't seem to be a marked improvement. Nonetheless, I can't wait for full-size samples from other testing sites.
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Just my own speculation (from an electronic circuit/system design background) about the feasibility of someone circumventing Panasonic's "chipped-battery" systems:
Gary R. wrote:

There are lots of possibilities, but one would be eliminating the battery garbage they've put in (unless there's actual camera-function circuitry in the battery itself, which seems unlikely).
Small, dedicated and embedded microprocessors are everywhere - even in those extremely inexpensive tiny "talking toys". Not a significant production cost when manufactured in relatively large quantities, whatsoever.

Therefore, I would hypothesize that Panasonic does (indeed) utilize a microprocessor system in each and every chipped-battery - thus (truly) distributing the camera's "functional intelligence" into the battery itself ...

These functions are unlikely to be able to be independently (and alternatively) performed within the camera-body chip-set. I would imagine that Panasonic surely "saw that angle coming", and, correspondingly, made sure that the in-camera chip-set and hardware will intentionally not perform these (intentionally distributed to the chipped-battery) functions.

Remember, "chip" means "integrated circuit", which means LSI (large scale integration), and small and very inexpensive embedded microprocessor-based systems are (ironically) among the least expensive options of all (due to the tremendous volumes and resulting low production costs) ... ;)
The availability of such a hack just might also discourage them from continuing in their current path of crippling cameras unless their batteries are used, since it would be easy to circumvent.
Just another reason why it would be well worth the effort for Panasonic to invest in the above hypothesized chipped battery with it's own embedded microprocessor system !!! My condolences.
 
As it stands, the LX5 is my last Panasonic, but if that particular issue were solved, who knows.
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Gary
Me Too...

I've concluded the Fz30, 50, Tz5 & Lx3, is where my Panasonic trail ends too... Assuming the Battery Extortion has become standard on all future models...

Before I'll succumb to the Battery Extortion, they're currently employing... They're pretty much going to have to custom build the thing to my exact specifications from top-to-bottom & inside & out, which will include An EVF the likes of which hasn't been seen yet, no video & in full color only without even the option to choose B&W or Sapia & a whole bunch of scene modes would also be extricated from the beast... & all for less than $500 too... I've already been boycotting anything I know to be Matsuchita, which at the very least already totals two TV's they missed out on selling me... Now if only Vizio would get into the Camera biz ;)
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The Amateur Formerly Known as ' UZ'pShoot'ERS ' 'Happy Shootin'! Comments, Critique, Ridicule, Limericks, Jokes, Hi-jackings, EnthUZIastically, Encouraged... I Insist!



* rrawzz'at'gmail'dot'com * http://www.pbase.com/rrawzz *
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Hey Ross, good to hear from ya.

Maybe we'll eventually end up back to Olympus, who knows? The new XZ-1 is a pretty decent first offer in the LX3 range of cameras; it has too many glitches and things left out to interest me, but shows promise if they fix it up in successive models. (they even have a hi-res EVF, but it's a top-mount, pricey, and rather large, not built in, but it may please some). And a higher res LCD. Sony is now using some nice 920k LCD's, which are great for me with the Clearviewer, excellent detail, so there's another possibility.

At this point, even if Panasonic produced the FZ60 we wanted long ago, I wouldn't bother, because I know they'll have the battery issue...it's just time to move on, apparently. I don't really need any cameras now, or for a long time, but would probably sell the LX5 if the Oly XZ1's successor (or something similar) pans out, just due to the battery issue (though I wouldn't miss the thumbwheel a bit).
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Gary
Photo albums: http://www.pbase.com/roberthouse
 
Hey Ross, good to hear from ya.
RB@chya!
Maybe we'll eventually end up back to Olympus, who knows?
Not at a Nikon-esque F\3-6.9 ;) :
http://www.dpreview.com/news/1103/11030211olysz30mr.asp

A concerted effort towards unseating the Zs\Tz line, maybe, if it's similarly sized? That's what I'm thinkin' Oly's finally on board with...
The new XZ-1 is a pretty decent first offer in the LX3 range of cameras; it has too many glitches and things left out to interest me, but shows promise if they fix it up in successive models. (they even have a hi-res EVF, but it's a top-mount, pricey, and rather large, not built in, but it may please some). And a higher res LCD. Sony is now using some nice 920k LCD's, which are great for me with the Clearviewer, excellent detail, so there's another possibility.
I'm all for better 4, 5 & 6k or more LCD's & would take the size (thickness) hit if they were all tilt\swivel too & if external EVF's were included in with the stock package @ significantly lower total cost than their combined cost now, such as what the cams alone are fetching, I'd use em at least half of the time & probably always during the day outside... But there's no way I'll throw an additional 1\3rd or more of what the cam alone cost away on one, especially a low-rez one...

I don't need Jeans-pocketable.. In fact smaller is almost unacceptable & while I'd prefer the EVF be built-in, either way external or built-in, I'd accept the size hit too, especially if it's still smaller than the G12 & P7000, which I don't think is impossible...

As for the Xz1, I'm sure it's well-built at least as well as an Lx & maybe even better although without a grip bump that I don't like at all & the JPG engine looks at least as good as the 8080's, replete with "Those-Oly-Colors" but after that & the F\1.8-2.5 aperture, I'm pretty much severely unimpressed to the point those beautiful attributes are wasted... Lest we forget the loss of 4mm wide, I've been spoiled by, is pretty much a deal-killer all by itself...

Really? The ancient standard known as the half-press is now considered an acceptable incarnation of the AEL\AFL button... Give me a break.. If that were the case then every cam on the planet has had AEL\AFL since the turn-of-the-century & all previous complaints of that button being missing were unwarranted. And the-powers-that-be, know-it-all reviewers not calling Oly out on that is even more objectionable...

I can't think of a single good advantage the ring around the lens provides on either the Xz1 or the S90 & 95, especially in the rear-lcd framing way of shooting.. I'd rather take my chances with a touch-screen, given the choice, if the J-stick wasn't possible... The last thing I want to do holding the cam away from my face is to reach all the way round the front of it unless it's an adj that's set prior to the shot like the Aspect ratio or focus mode... but not for manual focus, EV, shutter or aperture, while framing.. Rings around the lens only work best in a more conventional two-handed through a VF technique..

Even if it is poor technique to one-hand hold to frame\shoot, LCD-only framing almost promotes it & even with a two-handed LCD-only approach, I'm sorry, the J-stick & buttons beats dials & wheels & if the wheel\dial is multi-functional by pressing it in or in combo with a button-press, fuggetabotit.. That's one of the reasons I never got on well with the 8080... I never was able to remember which button of the many had to be pressed for the dial to change the shutter speed in 'M' mode...
At this point, even if Panasonic produced the FZ60 we wanted long ago, I wouldn't bother, because I know they'll have the battery issue...it's just time to move on, apparently. I don't really need any cameras now, or for a long time, but would probably sell the LX5 if the Oly XZ1's successor (or something similar) pans out, just due to the battery issue (though I wouldn't miss the thumbwheel a bit).
Well, for the possible Fz60, I'm thinking Fuji might be the only hope but they still don't quite get it & if a touch wider & longer tele has to be @ F\6 or F\7, what good is it?

I fear I'm S.O.L. as far as an Lx3 upgrade, other than another Lx3.. From Panny it's more than the battery fiasco despite more zoom, purported better DR & faster AF & I doubt Oly will go the way of the J-stick or add 4 or more mm to the wide end, which alone pretty much rules the Xz & the Canons out...

Who knows, maybe Ricoh, Casio or Samsung might pull an Fz-esque rabbit outta the hat.. They're putting up a decent effort towards the Lx... Canon Nikon & Sony are just too busy to bother...

Finally, I'm not shooting as much as I used to, even though the Lx & big bag are still pretty much always within reach... So with the exception of a drop or loss\theft, the lesser wear & tear should\could add years to my needing an upgrade, especially having the 30 still, to back up my 50 although the Tz5 isn't quite as formidable a back-up of the Lx3...

Hell, 8 & 10mp is fine by me... It's not like we're stuck with a measly 1.5 & 2mp like we were back in the Uzi days & the single digit Fz's along with the 10, 15 & 20 just weren't quite enough to go to although I just missed opting for the 20 but went wide to the 8080 instead & even though that didn't work neither, it was a help in the grand scheme of things compared to what the Fz20 would have brought to my table...
But I digress....
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The Amateur Formerly Known as ' UZ'pShoot'ERS ' 'Happy Shootin'! Comments, Critique, Ridicule, Limericks, Jokes, Hi-jackings, EnthUZIastically, Encouraged... I Insist!



* rrawzz'at'gmail'dot'com * http://www.pbase.com/rrawzz *
Tz5aLx3Fz50Fz30C8080wzE100rsC2100uz
 
Since the ZS8 will still retain a CCD sensor, would I be better off getting that instead of the ZS10? Should (in theory) the still picture quality be better overall than having this new CMOS in the ZS10? The other features arent that important and I can live with 720p video. If I can save $100 and end up with a camera with better zoom than the ZS7 and great picture quality, I can live without the other bells and whistles (GPS, touch screen, 3D)
 

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