SHOCK: S602 defective???

precisely - there IS no compactness advantage at all when the adapter is fitted permanently....!!

When I first saw it - I suggested that maybe this option could be no 1 request on a firmware revision - but the wave of support was underwhelming.

ga-ga
Leo said that he had been told by Fuji that
3) fuji put a tiny carbon plate, polarized, near the ccd, to catch
dust.
see
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1012&message=3728714

Its an issue with all digicams...... (Film cams have an automatic
cleaning system......!!)
but its worse with extending lens cameras......
and bugs me that the extending lens serves no useful purpose
whatsoever!.......
regards ga-ga
Compactness.. but I must admit I dont understand why Fuji did not
give the option in settings to prevent lens retracting all the time
when the tube/filter are fitted. There's no logical reason why it
could'nt stay out all the time when the tubes fitted, it would
extend battery life quite a lot too I would think.

Grandpa
 
Have I?? 'if' the movement of the lens is a problem... I don't think it produces enough pressure to be a problem and anyway, the seals scrape it off. But, 'if' that is the case then the adapter still affords more protection than not having it. The point of the thread the other day was suggesting the adapter made things worse. I've never pretended air or dust doesn't get into the camera.

I agree with you that having a moving lens isn't necessary if you're going to use the adapter full time and I admit, I hadn't realized that till you pointed it out so I'm grateful to you for showing me that.
regards
Ian
Well publicized but has it been proven? When the lens tube is
attached, where do you think the air comes from to equalize the
pressure? Probably through whatever gaps there are in the body,
sucking in dust at the same time.
It is in balance when the air pushed away in the tube is sucked
into the lens system. Does it really work that way, how can you
assure there is no dust in your tube when you put it on, how can
you be sure no dust ever gets in?
And how about other camera's that work this way? There are a lot of
big zoom lenses both digital and analog, do they suffer from the
same thing? Do the dimage 7x and Nikon 5700 people complain about
this? The 5700 even is a two step lens with no possibility to add a
tube (also; was there not a relation between Nikon and Fuji
concerning body design?).

--
Sander [Fuji602 SonyP1]
http://www.azrifel.com
http://www.pbase.com/azrifel/
--
6900
--
6900
 
hehe.....
alls fair in love and forums.....!!

hey, just by accident I have just downloaded a pic of a football match off the internet - I looked on the exif and found it was a fuji and then noticed it has a firmware revision.......
"Digital Camera FinePixA101 Ver2.00"

all the 602's I've seen are revision ver 1.00 and that suggested a rigidity and that maybe a firmware revision wouldn't be forthcoming -

but maybe we should be campaining now....... to get what we want included into a revision 2.......???
how about it?.....

regards ga-ga
Well publicized but has it been proven? When the lens tube is
attached, where do you think the air comes from to equalize the
pressure? Probably through whatever gaps there are in the body,
sucking in dust at the same time.
It is in balance when the air pushed away in the tube is sucked
into the lens system. Does it really work that way, how can you
assure there is no dust in your tube when you put it on, how can
you be sure no dust ever gets in?
And how about other camera's that work this way? There are a lot of
big zoom lenses both digital and analog, do they suffer from the
same thing? Do the dimage 7x and Nikon 5700 people complain about
this? The 5700 even is a two step lens with no possibility to add a
tube (also; was there not a relation between Nikon and Fuji
concerning body design?).

--
Sander [Fuji602 SonyP1]
http://www.azrifel.com
http://www.pbase.com/azrifel/
--
6900
--
6900
 
Well let's see if there's a revision in the 602 pro when it comes out.

By the way, 'polarized' would be the right term. Charge is relative not absolute so they talk about electrodes as being poles. That is, one will be relatively + and one relatively -. Creating this situation is polarization. In this case the carcon will be relatively positive (delta+) in comparison to the dust and so will attract it. The physics is interesting because it's the reason why a battery works and why steel rusts in salty water. Depolarization explains voltage drop in batteries.
regards
Ian
regards ga-ga
Well publicized but has it been proven? When the lens tube is
attached, where do you think the air comes from to equalize the
pressure? Probably through whatever gaps there are in the body,
sucking in dust at the same time.
It is in balance when the air pushed away in the tube is sucked
into the lens system. Does it really work that way, how can you
assure there is no dust in your tube when you put it on, how can
you be sure no dust ever gets in?
And how about other camera's that work this way? There are a lot of
big zoom lenses both digital and analog, do they suffer from the
same thing? Do the dimage 7x and Nikon 5700 people complain about
this? The 5700 even is a two step lens with no possibility to add a
tube (also; was there not a relation between Nikon and Fuji
concerning body design?).

--
Sander [Fuji602 SonyP1]
http://www.azrifel.com
http://www.pbase.com/azrifel/
--
6900
--
6900
--
6900
 
Ok, publish and be damned it is.
Here is a pic of a D60 sensor before and after cleaning.

Shots taken at F22 and contrast enhanced to show the problem more clearly. I hope he doesn't mind.



Ian
Its an issue with all digicams...... (Film cams have an automatic
cleaning system......!!)
but its worse with extending lens cameras......
and bugs me that the extending lens serves no useful purpose
whatsoever!.......
regards ga-ga
i was surfing S602 reviews since I am almost going to buy it. BUT I
found a group of negative reviews saying that S602 has some kind of
body design defective which can cause dirt to easily get in.

It's at one of the most popular Chinese digital camera forum
website. It has a specific Fuji forum like this one. Many people
at that forum own S602 and now there's a big complain about the
dirt problem. According to their own survey, about 20% S602 owners
at that forum said they found dirt IN the lense and black dots in
the pictures(not necessary the dirt) though Fuji said they received
only 63 such complains since June. This problem occurs as soon as
one month after the purchase. They had formed a group to complain
to Fuji in China. Fuji has promised to clean their cameras but
declined to give any explanation for the reason of dirt getting-in
problem. Those S602 owner's guess is the thin slot under the
flash. They said if you pop up the flash and look through, you can
even see LCD's light!!

For your reference, here's a link to a S602 picture with the black
dot posted at that forum. The posts are in Chinese, but never mind,
the pic tells all:

http://digi.pchome.net/2002/11/16/5_13653.htm

There's no necessary relationship between the dirt and black dots.
Some owners doubt the black dots is attrbuted to CCD defective. But
for sure quite a few S602 sold in China had dirt in the camera and
black dots in the photo soon after the purchase .

Doese anyone here have the same problem or ever notice it?
--
6900
--
6900
 
Well let's see if there's a revision in the 602 pro when it comes out.
well I can't see an instant yes coming -
and if we don't ask for anything - who will.......
how about starting a thread as a petition that we could send to Fuji.....

but we'd have to agree to be of one mind on it or counter opinions would get us nowhere.......??

we couldn't get everything done if we can put forward one, two or three changes that we can all agree on maybe thats enough to aim for.....??
you've been here longer than me....
have you got the stomach for it?....

maybe we'd have to do it as an email for people to pass on signed if in agreement -
the thread would be bound to get some detracters.....
ga-ga
By the way, 'polarized' would be the right term. Charge is relative
not absolute so they talk about electrodes as being poles. That is,
one will be relatively + and one relatively -. Creating this
situation is polarization. In this case the carcon will be
relatively positive (delta+) in comparison to the dust and so will
attract it. The physics is interesting because it's the reason why
a battery works and why steel rusts in salty water. Depolarization
explains voltage drop in batteries.
OKay - if you say so ....
I get the idea anyway......!
regards
Ian
regards ga-ga
Well publicized but has it been proven? When the lens tube is
attached, where do you think the air comes from to equalize the
pressure? Probably through whatever gaps there are in the body,
sucking in dust at the same time.
It is in balance when the air pushed away in the tube is sucked
into the lens system. Does it really work that way, how can you
assure there is no dust in your tube when you put it on, how can
you be sure no dust ever gets in?
And how about other camera's that work this way? There are a lot of
big zoom lenses both digital and analog, do they suffer from the
same thing? Do the dimage 7x and Nikon 5700 people complain about
this? The 5700 even is a two step lens with no possibility to add a
tube (also; was there not a relation between Nikon and Fuji
concerning body design?).

--
Sander [Fuji602 SonyP1]
http://www.azrifel.com
http://www.pbase.com/azrifel/
--
6900
--
6900
--
6900
 
It's impossible. Try getting 12 people to go to a movie/film and agree on which one to see. You'll get a minimum of 5 different choices people will feel passionate about.
I really don't want to go there on firmware with a whole forum!!

On the other hand, if Fuji would like to make a camera to my specifications, I 'might' be prepared to offer them my advice.
regards
Ian
Well let's see if there's a revision in the 602 pro when it comes out.
well I can't see an instant yes coming -
and if we don't ask for anything - who will.......
how about starting a thread as a petition that we could send to
Fuji.....
but we'd have to agree to be of one mind on it or counter opinions
would get us nowhere.......??
we couldn't get everything done if we can put forward one, two or
three changes that we can all agree on maybe thats enough to aim
for.....??
you've been here longer than me....
have you got the stomach for it?....
maybe we'd have to do it as an email for people to pass on signed
if in agreement -
the thread would be bound to get some detracters.....
ga-ga
By the way, 'polarized' would be the right term. Charge is relative
not absolute so they talk about electrodes as being poles. That is,
one will be relatively + and one relatively -. Creating this
situation is polarization. In this case the carcon will be
relatively positive (delta+) in comparison to the dust and so will
attract it. The physics is interesting because it's the reason why
a battery works and why steel rusts in salty water. Depolarization
explains voltage drop in batteries.
OKay - if you say so ....
I get the idea anyway......!
regards
Ian
regards ga-ga
Well publicized but has it been proven? When the lens tube is
attached, where do you think the air comes from to equalize the
pressure? Probably through whatever gaps there are in the body,
sucking in dust at the same time.
It is in balance when the air pushed away in the tube is sucked
into the lens system. Does it really work that way, how can you
assure there is no dust in your tube when you put it on, how can
you be sure no dust ever gets in?
And how about other camera's that work this way? There are a lot of
big zoom lenses both digital and analog, do they suffer from the
same thing? Do the dimage 7x and Nikon 5700 people complain about
this? The 5700 even is a two step lens with no possibility to add a
tube (also; was there not a relation between Nikon and Fuji
concerning body design?).

--
Sander [Fuji602 SonyP1]
http://www.azrifel.com
http://www.pbase.com/azrifel/
--
6900
--
6900
--
6900
--
6900
 
yes - I can see what you mean........
but whats the alternative - saying nothing.......
and thereby indicating everythings hunky-dory?.....
ga-ga
It's impossible. Try getting 12 people to go to a movie/film and
agree on which one to see. You'll get a minimum of 5 different
choices people will feel passionate about.
I really don't want to go there on firmware with a whole forum!!
On the other hand, if Fuji would like to make a camera to my
specifications, I 'might' be prepared to offer them my advice.
regards
Ian
ga-ga wrote:
 
Well I'll bet that the next camera to be released-probably in May next year-is already in the prototype stages and maybe some of the parts are already in production. The reality is that they probably have the designs prepared for the next camera but one when the next camera is released. Whatever comes out next year is already decided IMO, and unless we can predict what they'll do in 2004, we won't have a lot of influence.

Anyway, we aren't exactly mainstream users here. We people who agonize about photography and who live eat sleep photography, are a very small bunch indeed. 80% of all the photographs taken in the world every year are taken on holiday. 18% of the rest are taken at family events.
regards brother
Ian
It's impossible. Try getting 12 people to go to a movie/film and
agree on which one to see. You'll get a minimum of 5 different
choices people will feel passionate about.
I really don't want to go there on firmware with a whole forum!!
On the other hand, if Fuji would like to make a camera to my
specifications, I 'might' be prepared to offer them my advice.
regards
Ian
ga-ga wrote:
--
6900
 
If a company really wants to give the consumer what they want, they don't need a marketing department.

Companies don't want to give you what they want it's to expensive and leads to too many options. Companies want to produce one product and convince everyone that that's what they really want and that is what marketing is there for.
'Just do it.'
Ian
 
I just got S602 via E-Bay.
I started worry about "dust" problem by now.
So, any conclusion? I really want to know the cause and how to protect that.

Many thanks.
 
Hi Xits!...
if it ain broke - don't fix it.......
don't worry about it till it happens......

I spoke to theo Lumens who has dissasembled a 4900 to clean a dust on ccd problem......
his educated view was.....
stick on the adapter and a UV .....!!

also, apparantly there is a charged plate near the ccd to attract any dust that gets in - so if you do get any it might go by itself after a bit......
who knows the bellows action might even help that process......??
but wait till it happens before you start to worry about it.......
or you might go.......
ga-ga.....!
I just got S602 via E-Bay.
I started worry about "dust" problem by now.
So, any conclusion? I really want to know the cause and how to
protect that.

Many thanks.
 
looks like only you and me to vote tom!...
......Ians too political.....

but what about compiling a list and letting people tick anything they want to see on the update......
trouble is how do you get the update if they ever do one......?
whenever you send in your camera for cleaning or repair maybe.....??

ga-ga
yes - I can see what you mean........
but whats the alternative - saying nothing.......
and thereby indicating everythings hunky-dory?.....
ga-ga
Ga-ga,

there is another way: you make up a top 5 or top 10 list for
upgrade, and ask who wants to support you with this list,
unmodified.
--
Regards,
Tom
(FinePix S602z)
http://www.pbase.com/tomcee

S602Z FAQ:
http://www.marius.org/fuji602faq.php
 
ok we'll do it then....
ga-ga
If a company really wants to give the consumer what they want, they
don't need a marketing department.
Companies don't want to give you what they want it's to expensive
and leads to too many options. Companies want to produce one
product and convince everyone that that's what they really want and
that is what marketing is there for.
'Just do it.'
Ian
 
Well, the point is, I'm happy with my 602, even though I know it's not perfect. An upgrade would be nice, but what are the chances....

I definetly do not want to send my camera in for an update, who knows with what it comes back with... hot pixels...dust on the ccd.....etc.

If they would make an update a la Nikon, that would be better. But maybe a wish list brought under the attention of Fuji is good for one of the newer models, then I have something to wish for Santa Claus 2004 8=))
--
Regards,
Tom
(FinePix S602z)
http://www.pbase.com/tomcee

S602Z FAQ:
http://www.marius.org/fuji602faq.php
 
ok!
...........NEXT!......??

ga-ga
Well, the point is, I'm happy with my 602, even though I know it's
not perfect. An upgrade would be nice, but what are the chances....
I definetly do not want to send my camera in for an update, who
knows with what it comes back with... hot pixels...dust on the
ccd.....etc.
If they would make an update a la Nikon, that would be better. But
maybe a wish list brought under the attention of Fuji is good for
one of the newer models, then I have something to wish for Santa
Claus 2004 8=))
--
Regards,
Tom
(FinePix S602z)
http://www.pbase.com/tomcee

S602Z FAQ:
http://www.marius.org/fuji602faq.php
 
yeah - right !!!!
an I'll have a drinks cabinate..!!!
and you wonder why I'm goin'.......
ga-ga

btw I actually had a firmware upgrade on my Uzi - everybody (in the know) asks for it whenever a camera has to go in for repair......
Well, to start a new thread: I want to use my 602 as a walkman, why
wasn't it build with two speakers to gain stereo??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
--
Regards,
Tom
(FinePix S602z)
http://www.pbase.com/tomcee

S602Z FAQ:
http://www.marius.org/fuji602faq.php
 

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