SHOCK: S602 defective???

i was surfing S602 reviews since I am almost going to buy it. BUT I found a group of negative reviews saying that S602 has some kind of body design defective which can cause dirt to easily get in.

It's at one of the most popular Chinese digital camera forum website. It has a specific Fuji forum like this one. Many people at that forum own S602 and now there's a big complain about the dirt problem. According to their own survey, about 20% S602 owners at that forum said they found dirt IN the lense and black dots in the pictures(not necessary the dirt) though Fuji said they received only 63 such complains since June. This problem occurs as soon as one month after the purchase. They had formed a group to complain to Fuji in China. Fuji has promised to clean their cameras but declined to give any explanation for the reason of dirt getting-in problem. Those S602 owner's guess is the thin slot under the flash. They said if you pop up the flash and look through, you can even see LCD's light!!

For your reference, here's a link to a S602 picture with the black dot posted at that forum. The posts are in Chinese, but never mind, the pic tells all:

http://digi.pchome.net/2002/11/16/5_13653.htm

There's no necessary relationship between the dirt and black dots. Some owners doubt the black dots is attrbuted to CCD defective. But for sure quite a few S602 sold in China had dirt in the camera and black dots in the photo soon after the purchase .

Doese anyone here have the same problem or ever notice it?

Xin Gou said:

i was surfing S602 reviews since I am almost going to buy it. BUT I
found a group of negative reviews saying that S602 has some kind of
body design defective which can cause dirt to easily get in.

It's at one of the most popular Chinese digital camera forum
website. It has a specific Fuji forum like this one. Many people
at that forum own S602 and now there's a big complain about the
dirt problem. According to their own survey, about 20% S602 owners
at that forum said they found dirt IN the lense and black dots in
the pictures(not necessary the dirt) though Fuji said they received
only 63 such complains since June. This problem occurs as soon as
one month after the purchase. They had formed a group to complain
to Fuji in China. Fuji has promised to clean their cameras but
declined to give any explanation for the reason of dirt getting-in
problem. Those S602 owner's guess is the thin slot under the
flash. They said if you pop up the flash and look through, you can
even see LCD's light!!

For your reference, here's a link to a S602 picture with the black
dot posted at that forum. The posts are in Chinese, but never mind,
the pic tells all:

http://digi.pchome.net/2002/11/16/5_13653.htm

There's no necessary relationship between the dirt and black dots.
Some owners doubt the black dots is attrbuted to CCD defective. But
for sure quite a few S602 sold in China had dirt in the camera and
black dots in the photo soon after the purchase .

Doese anyone here have the same problem or ever notice it?

Click to expand...

I have seen a couple of forum users post a mention about dust inside their 602's but it has not been a major problem here so far.
I've seen no evidence of this with my own 602 after nearly 4 months use.

Grandpa

There's a lot of dust trapped inside of the lens of mine. It floats around annoyingly, but never enough to get the biggest piece, I call him Bubba, to move from the samck dab middle of the first element underneath the protective glass. Several here have also noticed dust inside. I can't see any noticable blemishs on the pictures, though it certainly can't help.

I need to have mine serviced under warranty when the time is right anyway as the thumb wheel has also died, after just a couple of months use. It now only switches back and forth between where it happens to be set and the adjactent option (shutter speeds, apertures, burst modes, SP modes, you name it) regardless of how many increments you turn it in a single direction.

grandpa said:

Xin Gou said:

i was surfing S602 reviews since I am almost going to buy it. BUT I
found a group of negative reviews saying that S602 has some kind of
body design defective which can cause dirt to easily get in.

It's at one of the most popular Chinese digital camera forum
website. It has a specific Fuji forum like this one. Many people
at that forum own S602 and now there's a big complain about the
dirt problem. According to their own survey, about 20% S602 owners
at that forum said they found dirt IN the lense and black dots in
the pictures(not necessary the dirt) though Fuji said they received
only 63 such complains since June. This problem occurs as soon as
one month after the purchase. They had formed a group to complain
to Fuji in China. Fuji has promised to clean their cameras but
declined to give any explanation for the reason of dirt getting-in
problem. Those S602 owner's guess is the thin slot under the
flash. They said if you pop up the flash and look through, you can
even see LCD's light!!

For your reference, here's a link to a S602 picture with the black
dot posted at that forum. The posts are in Chinese, but never mind,
the pic tells all:

http://digi.pchome.net/2002/11/16/5_13653.htm

There's no necessary relationship between the dirt and black dots.
Some owners doubt the black dots is attrbuted to CCD defective. But
for sure quite a few S602 sold in China had dirt in the camera and
black dots in the photo soon after the purchase .

Doese anyone here have the same problem or ever notice it?

Click to expand...

I have seen a couple of forum users post a mention about dust
inside their 602's but it has not been a major problem here so far.
I've seen no evidence of this with my own 602 after nearly 4 months
use.

Grandpa

Click to expand...

When the lens extends dust can be drawn into the lens because of the change in air pressure. Well publicized.

The fix is the lens tube with a filter on it. I addition to protecting your fine 602 from dust this lens tube allowa the fitting of filters and wide angle and telephoto lenses to the 602. It also protects the extendable lens from bumps and drops.

All in all a needed accesory and takes care of any dust in the lens issues.

As long as you never turn it on without a filter or lens attached, I suppose. And you never change those in the field, or in a room with dust in the air.

ShinyTop said:

When the lens extends dust can be drawn into the lens because of
the change in air pressure. Well publicized.

The fix is the lens tube with a filter on it. I addition to
protecting your fine 602 from dust this lens tube allowa the
fitting of filters and wide angle and telephoto lenses to the 602.
It also protects the extendable lens from bumps and drops.

All in all a needed accesory and takes care of any dust in the lens
issues.

Click to expand...

ST - what is the specific part number I would need to buy (tube and filter) that would prevent the dust problem as well as protect it from bumps and drops?? Appreciate your reply! Thanks.

Phil G.

ShinyTop said:

When the lens extends dust can be drawn into the lens because of
the change in air pressure. Well publicized.

The fix is the lens tube with a filter on it. I addition to
protecting your fine 602 from dust this lens tube allowa the
fitting of filters and wide angle and telephoto lenses to the 602.
It also protects the extendable lens from bumps and drops.

All in all a needed accesory and takes care of any dust in the lens
issues.

Click to expand...

Well publicized but has it been proven? When the lens tube is attached, where do you think the air comes from to equalize the pressure? Probably through whatever gaps there are in the body, sucking in dust at the same time.

ShinyTop said:

When the lens extends dust can be drawn into the lens because of
the change in air pressure. Well publicized.

The fix is the lens tube with a filter on it. I addition to
protecting your fine 602 from dust this lens tube allowa the
fitting of filters and wide angle and telephoto lenses to the 602.
It also protects the extendable lens from bumps and drops.

All in all a needed accesory and takes care of any dust in the lens
issues.

Click to expand...

It would be interesting to do a survey on dust in the camera and cigarette smoking.

Cigarette smoke particles are so small and there are so many of them in some rooms, I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't a correlation between keeping a camera in a non-smoking household, and being kept in a smoking househould. How does smoking whilst using the camera affect it, or using it in smokey places like nightclubs or parties?

I know I'm really asking for trouble with this one, but the idea of the lens sucking in dust is nothing compared to breathing thousands of smoke particles over your toy.
Ian

Jared Hunter said:

Well publicized but has it been proven? When the lens tube is
attached, where do you think the air comes from to equalize the
pressure? Probably through whatever gaps there are in the body,
sucking in dust at the same time.

Click to expand...

It is in balance when the air pushed away in the tube is sucked into the lens system. Does it really work that way, how can you assure there is no dust in your tube when you put it on, how can you be sure no dust ever gets in?

And how about other camera's that work this way? There are a lot of big zoom lenses both digital and analog, do they suffer from the same thing? Do the dimage 7x and Nikon 5700 people complain about this? The 5700 even is a two step lens with no possibility to add a tube (also; was there not a relation between Nikon and Fuji concerning body design?).

--
Sander [Fuji602 SonyP1]
http://www.azrifel.com
http://www.pbase.com/azrifel/

Leo said that he had been told by Fuji that
3) fuji put a tiny carbon plate, polarized, near the ccd, to catch dust.
see
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1012&message=3728714

Its an issue with all digicams...... (Film cams have an automatic cleaning system......!!)
but its worse with extending lens cameras......
and bugs me that the extending lens serves no useful purpose whatsoever!.......
regards ga-ga

Xin Gou said:

i was surfing S602 reviews since I am almost going to buy it. BUT I
found a group of negative reviews saying that S602 has some kind of
body design defective which can cause dirt to easily get in.

It's at one of the most popular Chinese digital camera forum
website. It has a specific Fuji forum like this one. Many people
at that forum own S602 and now there's a big complain about the
dirt problem. According to their own survey, about 20% S602 owners
at that forum said they found dirt IN the lense and black dots in
the pictures(not necessary the dirt) though Fuji said they received
only 63 such complains since June. This problem occurs as soon as
one month after the purchase. They had formed a group to complain
to Fuji in China. Fuji has promised to clean their cameras but
declined to give any explanation for the reason of dirt getting-in
problem. Those S602 owner's guess is the thin slot under the
flash. They said if you pop up the flash and look through, you can
even see LCD's light!!

For your reference, here's a link to a S602 picture with the black
dot posted at that forum. The posts are in Chinese, but never mind,
the pic tells all:

http://digi.pchome.net/2002/11/16/5_13653.htm

There's no necessary relationship between the dirt and black dots.
Some owners doubt the black dots is attrbuted to CCD defective. But
for sure quite a few S602 sold in China had dirt in the camera and
black dots in the photo soon after the purchase .

Doese anyone here have the same problem or ever notice it?

Click to expand...

Ofcourse dust will get into the camera, no doubt about that! It is no vacuum bag, the 602. But I doubt that the other branches are. If you lift up the flash and turn the camera in play mode you can see, underneath the flash, light from the lcd. And there are other holes, like the card slots.

Dust on the lens will not be a big problem, unless it is sticky (like Ian said) or becomes too much. Dust getting at the ccd is a different story. But I read in another thread there is a little plate mounted nearby the ccd which attracks dust to keep it away from the ccd. I think Ian you are eager to open yours, just like I am. But mine is under warranty and I think as long as there is no problem I will not start surgery on the camera. As can be seen on Theo Lumens homepage opening it won't be a very difficult tric

Maybe on the Chinese pages we are dealing with another problem, like lack of quality control by Fuji concerning a for that market produced lot.

--
Regards,
Tom
(FinePix S602z)
http://www.pbase.com/tomcee

S602Z FAQ:
http://www.marius.org/fuji602faq.php

You hit the nail on the head there I think. The adapter does balance the pressure because 'if' the movement of the lens is a problem, then the air pushed by the front re-enters the camera and replaces the air sucked by the back, thereby equalizing the pressure and stopping any new air entering the camera. Yes, each time you remove a filter or take off the adapter you are introducing new air into the system and dust can get in. It's a tiny amount though and I think most air/dust gets in around the card ports.

As I said before, the proof is just to clean the inside of your adapter from time to time. If you don't see any dust there then it clearly isn't getting in in great quantities.
regards
Ian

Azrifel said:

Jared Hunter said:

Well publicized but has it been proven? When the lens tube is
attached, where do you think the air comes from to equalize the
pressure? Probably through whatever gaps there are in the body,
sucking in dust at the same time.

Click to expand...

It is in balance when the air pushed away in the tube is sucked
into the lens system. Does it really work that way, how can you
assure there is no dust in your tube when you put it on, how can
you be sure no dust ever gets in?
And how about other camera's that work this way? There are a lot of
big zoom lenses both digital and analog, do they suffer from the
same thing? Do the dimage 7x and Nikon 5700 people complain about
this? The 5700 even is a two step lens with no possibility to add a
tube (also; was there not a relation between Nikon and Fuji
concerning body design?).

--
Sander [Fuji602 SonyP1]
http://www.azrifel.com
http://www.pbase.com/azrifel/

Click to expand...

--
6900

This is interesting. Really, I think these Fuji's are very well designed when you look at all the problems the competition have. We have very little to complain about.

And I agree with you about the extending lens. If you're going to add the adapter then there is no need for it to move for a number of reasons and it would be better not to.

I was sent a pic of a D60 sensor after a year of use. The dust is amazing. I could post it I suppose but it isn't my pic.
regards
Ian

ga-ga said:

Its an issue with all digicams...... (Film cams have an automatic
cleaning system......!!)
but its worse with extending lens cameras......
and bugs me that the extending lens serves no useful purpose
whatsoever!.......
regards ga-ga

Xin Gou said:

i was surfing S602 reviews since I am almost going to buy it. BUT I
found a group of negative reviews saying that S602 has some kind of
body design defective which can cause dirt to easily get in.

It's at one of the most popular Chinese digital camera forum
website. It has a specific Fuji forum like this one. Many people
at that forum own S602 and now there's a big complain about the
dirt problem. According to their own survey, about 20% S602 owners
at that forum said they found dirt IN the lense and black dots in
the pictures(not necessary the dirt) though Fuji said they received
only 63 such complains since June. This problem occurs as soon as
one month after the purchase. They had formed a group to complain
to Fuji in China. Fuji has promised to clean their cameras but
declined to give any explanation for the reason of dirt getting-in
problem. Those S602 owner's guess is the thin slot under the
flash. They said if you pop up the flash and look through, you can
even see LCD's light!!

For your reference, here's a link to a S602 picture with the black
dot posted at that forum. The posts are in Chinese, but never mind,
the pic tells all:

http://digi.pchome.net/2002/11/16/5_13653.htm

There's no necessary relationship between the dirt and black dots.
Some owners doubt the black dots is attrbuted to CCD defective. But
for sure quite a few S602 sold in China had dirt in the camera and
black dots in the photo soon after the purchase .

Doese anyone here have the same problem or ever notice it?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
6900

Hi Tom

Well I don't have any dust in the lens because I've looked, and the sensor seems clean. I've had dust in the EVF but that clearly comes off my eyebrow, and I have had the camera back off and cleaned the EVF. I agree, wait till the warranty period is up, but it's just 5 screws in the camera body and you can get to the EVF in literaly 2 minutes. (you don't have to take the lens barrel off to clean the EVF).

The Chinese problem could be QC, air quality or smoking. The Chinese are now the world's heaviest smokers whereas we in the West are smoking less and less. We don't burn coal either, and our cities are less and less polluted. Eastern cities have more pollution problems than the West now, and particularly have problems due to badly maintained Diesel engines. I know I'm generalising, but then the idea of a Chinese problem is a generalisation too. I'm sure not everyone has problems in China either.
regards
Ian

TomCee said:

Ofcourse dust will get into the camera, no doubt about that! It is
no vacuum bag, the 602. But I doubt that the other branches are. If
you lift up the flash and turn the camera in play mode you can see,
underneath the flash, light from the lcd. And there are other
holes, like the card slots.
Dust on the lens will not be a big problem, unless it is sticky
(like Ian said) or becomes too much. Dust getting at the ccd is a
different story. But I read in another thread there is a little
plate mounted nearby the ccd which attracks dust to keep it away
from the ccd. I think Ian you are eager to open yours, just like I
am. But mine is under warranty and I think as long as there is no
problem I will not start surgery on the camera. As can be seen on
Theo Lumens homepage opening it won't be a very difficult tric

Maybe on the Chinese pages we are dealing with another problem,
like lack of quality control by Fuji concerning a for that market
produced lot.

--
Regards,
Tom
(FinePix S602z)
http://www.pbase.com/tomcee

S602Z FAQ:
http://www.marius.org/fuji602faq.php

Click to expand...

--
6900

the use of the term polarized - worried me - polarized goes with light...
charged - goes with staticand dust......
the quality of the information is perhaps questionable....

but on the other hand the need to clean such a plate - which would accumulate the dust - would tie in with the "return to fuji every two years for cleaning" - the very last word in the manual.......???
regards ga-ga

ianR said:

ga-ga said:

Its an issue with all digicams...... (Film cams have an automatic
cleaning system......!!)
but its worse with extending lens cameras......
and bugs me that the extending lens serves no useful purpose
whatsoever!.......
regards ga-ga

Xin Gou said:

i was surfing S602 reviews since I am almost going to buy it. BUT I
found a group of negative reviews saying that S602 has some kind of
body design defective which can cause dirt to easily get in.

It's at one of the most popular Chinese digital camera forum
website. It has a specific Fuji forum like this one. Many people
at that forum own S602 and now there's a big complain about the
dirt problem. According to their own survey, about 20% S602 owners
at that forum said they found dirt IN the lense and black dots in
the pictures(not necessary the dirt) though Fuji said they received
only 63 such complains since June. This problem occurs as soon as
one month after the purchase. They had formed a group to complain
to Fuji in China. Fuji has promised to clean their cameras but
declined to give any explanation for the reason of dirt getting-in
problem. Those S602 owner's guess is the thin slot under the
flash. They said if you pop up the flash and look through, you can
even see LCD's light!!

For your reference, here's a link to a S602 picture with the black
dot posted at that forum. The posts are in Chinese, but never mind,
the pic tells all:

http://digi.pchome.net/2002/11/16/5_13653.htm

There's no necessary relationship between the dirt and black dots.
Some owners doubt the black dots is attrbuted to CCD defective. But
for sure quite a few S602 sold in China had dirt in the camera and
black dots in the photo soon after the purchase .

Doese anyone here have the same problem or ever notice it?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
6900

Click to expand...

ps what ever happened to "publish and be damned!"
ga-ga

ianR said:

ga-ga said:

Its an issue with all digicams...... (Film cams have an automatic
cleaning system......!!)
but its worse with extending lens cameras......
and bugs me that the extending lens serves no useful purpose
whatsoever!.......
regards ga-ga

Xin Gou said:

i was surfing S602 reviews since I am almost going to buy it. BUT I
found a group of negative reviews saying that S602 has some kind of
body design defective which can cause dirt to easily get in.

It's at one of the most popular Chinese digital camera forum
website. It has a specific Fuji forum like this one. Many people
at that forum own S602 and now there's a big complain about the
dirt problem. According to their own survey, about 20% S602 owners
at that forum said they found dirt IN the lense and black dots in
the pictures(not necessary the dirt) though Fuji said they received
only 63 such complains since June. This problem occurs as soon as
one month after the purchase. They had formed a group to complain
to Fuji in China. Fuji has promised to clean their cameras but
declined to give any explanation for the reason of dirt getting-in
problem. Those S602 owner's guess is the thin slot under the
flash. They said if you pop up the flash and look through, you can
even see LCD's light!!

For your reference, here's a link to a S602 picture with the black
dot posted at that forum. The posts are in Chinese, but never mind,
the pic tells all:

http://digi.pchome.net/2002/11/16/5_13653.htm

There's no necessary relationship between the dirt and black dots.
Some owners doubt the black dots is attrbuted to CCD defective. But
for sure quite a few S602 sold in China had dirt in the camera and
black dots in the photo soon after the purchase .

Doese anyone here have the same problem or ever notice it?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
6900

Click to expand...

anyway doesn't this count as a private club.......
ga-ga

ga-ga said:

ianR said:

ga-ga said:

Its an issue with all digicams...... (Film cams have an automatic
cleaning system......!!)
but its worse with extending lens cameras......
and bugs me that the extending lens serves no useful purpose
whatsoever!.......
regards ga-ga

Xin Gou said:

i was surfing S602 reviews since I am almost going to buy it. BUT I
found a group of negative reviews saying that S602 has some kind of
body design defective which can cause dirt to easily get in.

It's at one of the most popular Chinese digital camera forum
website. It has a specific Fuji forum like this one. Many people
at that forum own S602 and now there's a big complain about the
dirt problem. According to their own survey, about 20% S602 owners
at that forum said they found dirt IN the lense and black dots in
the pictures(not necessary the dirt) though Fuji said they received
only 63 such complains since June. This problem occurs as soon as
one month after the purchase. They had formed a group to complain
to Fuji in China. Fuji has promised to clean their cameras but
declined to give any explanation for the reason of dirt getting-in
problem. Those S602 owner's guess is the thin slot under the
flash. They said if you pop up the flash and look through, you can
even see LCD's light!!

For your reference, here's a link to a S602 picture with the black
dot posted at that forum. The posts are in Chinese, but never mind,
the pic tells all:

http://digi.pchome.net/2002/11/16/5_13653.htm

There's no necessary relationship between the dirt and black dots.
Some owners doubt the black dots is attrbuted to CCD defective. But
for sure quite a few S602 sold in China had dirt in the camera and
black dots in the photo soon after the purchase .

Doese anyone here have the same problem or ever notice it?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
6900

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Azrifel said:

Jared Hunter said:

Well publicized but has it been proven? When the lens tube is
attached, where do you think the air comes from to equalize the
pressure? Probably through whatever gaps there are in the body,
sucking in dust at the same time.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Since buying the tube what I do is is carefully use a vacume cleaner pipe placed over/near the end of the tube etc. to hopefully remove any dust from within it, I also do the same occasonally with the EVF, better than blowing IMO. I dont normally remove the protective filter at all.

Azrifel said:

It is in balance when the air pushed away in the tube is sucked
into the lens system. Does it really work that way, how can you
assure there is no dust in your tube when you put it on, how can
you be sure no dust ever gets in?

Click to expand...

Personally I'm not 100% convinced that the tube does not aid dust getting in to the camera due to the old air pressure argument.

However if the adapter is fitted with hopefully no dust present at time of fitting then there is'nt any dust there to get in. I dont think anyone really knows conclusively the answer to this one, but I consider it worth fitting anyway if only for protection.

Azrifel said:

And how about other camera's that work this way? There are a lot of
big zoom lenses both digital and analog, do they suffer from the
same thing? Do the dimage 7x and Nikon 5700 people complain about
this? The 5700 even is a two step lens with no possibility to add a
tube (also; was there not a relation between Nikon and Fuji
concerning body design?).

Click to expand...

I often browse other camera forums and subsribe to a couple of camera News groups and I can confirm that many camera's suffer from this problem of dust. Obviously its one of the major problems with DSLR's. I had a S2 a short while ago myself, and there is a special mode on the camera which allows easy access to the CCD so it can be cleaned, but I had great difficulty removing one tiny piece of dust. I could not see it even when viewed with a magnifying glass, you can get a special type of adhesive tape which is specially used for cleaning CCD's etc. works well too, the last thing you use is the likes of a cotton bud or similar as minute tiny hairs always get left behind and make the problem worse. I've also had this problem with my MiniDV on the EVF, can be a real pig to remove a stuborn hair, I think the effect of static does not help either.

Grandpa

Hey - you've changed your tune haven't you - you gave me stick the other day for suggesting just that!........
ga-ga!.....

ianR said:

Azrifel said:

Jared Hunter said:

Well publicized but has it been proven? When the lens tube is
attached, where do you think the air comes from to equalize the
pressure? Probably through whatever gaps there are in the body,
sucking in dust at the same time.

Click to expand...

It is in balance when the air pushed away in the tube is sucked
into the lens system. Does it really work that way, how can you
assure there is no dust in your tube when you put it on, how can
you be sure no dust ever gets in?
And how about other camera's that work this way? There are a lot of
big zoom lenses both digital and analog, do they suffer from the
same thing? Do the dimage 7x and Nikon 5700 people complain about
this? The 5700 even is a two step lens with no possibility to add a
tube (also; was there not a relation between Nikon and Fuji
concerning body design?).

--
Sander [Fuji602 SonyP1]
http://www.azrifel.com
http://www.pbase.com/azrifel/

Click to expand...

--
6900

Click to expand...

ga-ga said:

Leo said that he had been told by Fuji that
3) fuji put a tiny carbon plate, polarized, near the ccd, to catch
dust.
see
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1012&message=3728714

Its an issue with all digicams...... (Film cams have an automatic
cleaning system......!!)
but its worse with extending lens cameras......
and bugs me that the extending lens serves no useful purpose
whatsoever!.......
regards ga-ga

Click to expand...

Compactness.. but I must admit I dont understand why Fuji did not give the option in settings to prevent lens retracting all the time when the tube/filter are fitted. There's no logical reason why it could'nt stay out all the time when the tubes fitted, it would extend battery life quite a lot too I would think.

Grandpa