Reading mode: Light Dark

I'm so unhappy!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Pete D.
  • Start date Start date
Go to last post
P

Pete D.

Guest
I just recieved my new f717 yesterday. This thing has amazing control and features compared to my "old" Canon S10! I spent most of today getting familiar with the camera, and finally took it out in the sunshine for a few test shots. What a disapointment! I noticed that he sharpness and saturation were approximately the same as my S10 (which I like). I sometimes like to boost both in my editor. When I boosted the saturation 10% I couldn't believe my eyes! The photo looked like I had applied a solarization effect. The noise is so bad in the photo that I cannot apply ANY saturation without ruining it. Of course applying USM has equally negative effects on the noise.

My 4 year old S10 NEVER displayed noise like this. The photos from that camera would blow this (f717) away for clarity and noise. I will do side-by-side and post if anyone is interested. Of course it doesn't have all the manual controls 5 Mp and 5X zoom etc. But what good is all that if the photos are so poor?

I understand that there are programs out there that will help to clean up the noise, but I don't have that kind of time to spend on every photo, and I haven't seen any yet that don't remove some detail.
Did I buy the wrong camera or did I get a dud?

The first photo is a re-size of the original shot in Auto, sharpening at 0, full wide angle. The second is a detail crop of the original. The third is 10% saturation applied.





 
How about a full size image so we can tell you where you screwed up?
John
Pete D. said:
I just recieved my new f717 yesterday. This thing has amazing
control and features compared to my "old" Canon S10! I spent most
of today getting familiar with the camera, and finally took it out
in the sunshine for a few test shots. What a disapointment! I
noticed that he sharpness and saturation were approximately the
same as my S10 (which I like). I sometimes like to boost both in my
editor. When I boosted the saturation 10% I couldn't believe my
eyes! The photo looked like I had applied a solarization effect.
The noise is so bad in the photo that I cannot apply ANY saturation
without ruining it. Of course applying USM has equally negative
effects on the noise.
My 4 year old S10 NEVER displayed noise like this. The photos from
that camera would blow this (f717) away for clarity and noise. I
will do side-by-side and post if anyone is interested. Of course it
doesn't have all the manual controls 5 Mp and 5X zoom etc. But what
good is all that if the photos are so poor?
I understand that there are programs out there that will help to
clean up the noise, but I don't have that kind of time to spend on
every photo, and I haven't seen any yet that don't remove some
detail.
Did I buy the wrong camera or did I get a dud?
The first photo is a re-size of the original shot in Auto,
sharpening at 0, full wide angle. The second is a detail crop of
the original. The third is 10% saturation applied.





Click to expand...
 
Pete,

There's something wrong with the post processing. Even after down-loading the small bitmap you posted, I couldn't get that kind of result without cranking the sat up past 85%. Even at 500% magnification. I bumped it 10% and could see very little change. Certainly no noise artifacts. Similar to the results I get, processing my shots. I've never seen noise like this on any of my 1000+ shots. The only shot's I've ever used noise reduction sw on, are ISO 400 and above shots. None of them ever had noise anywhere near what your processed image shows. Even right out of the camera.

Like I said, there's not much noise in the image. IMO, it's being introduced during processing.

Good Luck,
Steve
Pete D. said:
I just recieved my new f717 yesterday. This thing has amazing
control and features compared to my "old" Canon S10! I spent most
of today getting familiar with the camera, and finally took it out
in the sunshine for a few test shots. What a disapointment! I
noticed that he sharpness and saturation were approximately the
same as my S10 (which I like). I sometimes like to boost both in my
editor. When I boosted the saturation 10% I couldn't believe my
eyes! The photo looked like I had applied a solarization effect.
The noise is so bad in the photo that I cannot apply ANY saturation
without ruining it. Of course applying USM has equally negative
effects on the noise.
My 4 year old S10 NEVER displayed noise like this. The photos from
that camera would blow this (f717) away for clarity and noise. I
will do side-by-side and post if anyone is interested. Of course it
doesn't have all the manual controls 5 Mp and 5X zoom etc. But what
good is all that if the photos are so poor?
I understand that there are programs out there that will help to
clean up the noise, but I don't have that kind of time to spend on
every photo, and I haven't seen any yet that don't remove some
detail.
Did I buy the wrong camera or did I get a dud?
The first photo is a re-size of the original shot in Auto,
sharpening at 0, full wide angle. The second is a detail crop of
the original. The third is 10% saturation applied.





Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/slo2k
 
What program are you using? In PS and PSE I can boost saturation on your image to +50 without the building crop you indicated looking the way your saturation adjustment looks.

Can you indicate the exact steps you took in editing and in what program?

I don't see a problem with your camera or the way the image was captured.

--
Shay

My Sony F707 & F717 Gallery: http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp
My F717 Observations: http://www.shaystephens.com/f717.asp
 
Perhaps you're right, Steve. Although I'm using the same program and settings that I have used for years, Paint Shop Pro 7. The saturation function is scaled from 0 to 100. I have used 5 to 10 on my Canon photos for years without this kind of effect. I also downloaded the bitmap just in case something happened that changed it. But I got the same results as before. Anyone else out there using PSP7 that could verify this?
Steve Cavigliano said:
Pete,
There's something wrong with the post processing. Even after
down-loading the small bitmap you posted, I couldn't get that kind
of result without cranking the sat up past 85%. Even at 500%
magnification. I bumped it 10% and could see very little change.
Certainly no noise artifacts. Similar to the results I get,
processing my shots. I've never seen noise like this on any of my
1000+ shots. The only shot's I've ever used noise reduction sw on,
are ISO 400 and above shots. None of them ever had noise anywhere
near what your processed image shows. Even right out of the camera.

Like I said, there's not much noise in the image. IMO, it's being
introduced during processing.

Good Luck,
Steve
Click to expand...
 
It's amazing. I opened the file in PhotoShop 6 and you are right! the solarization doesn't happen until way past +50. But, does that mean that PSP 7 is incompatible with this camera. I've never had trouble like this before. Does anyone else use PSP 7 to edit their F717 photos?
Shay Stephens said:
What program are you using? In PS and PSE I can boost saturation
on your image to +50 without the building crop you indicated
looking the way your saturation adjustment looks.

Can you indicate the exact steps you took in editing and in what
program?

I don't see a problem with your camera or the way the image was
captured.

--
Shay

My Sony F707 & F717 Gallery: http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp
My F717 Observations: http://www.shaystephens.com/f717.asp
Click to expand...
 
I have PSP 7, but never used that saturation function for "hue/saturation/lightness." I used the "enhance photo" functions mostly and sometimes the curve and histogram functions. I tried to with that other function and it does mess up that part of the building, but not as much on other parts that I looked at.

I would try the "enhance photo" functions and see if you can get the results you want. Since the Sony images already have good color I wouldn't think you need much extra saturation and maybe that's why it doesn't work to use that other function in PSP7 for Sony images.

Lisa
Pete D. said:
Steve Cavigliano said:
Pete,
There's something wrong with the post processing. Even after
down-loading the small bitmap you posted, I couldn't get that kind
of result without cranking the sat up past 85%. Even at 500%
magnification. I bumped it 10% and could see very little change.
Certainly no noise artifacts. Similar to the results I get,
processing my shots. I've never seen noise like this on any of my
1000+ shots. The only shot's I've ever used noise reduction sw on,
are ISO 400 and above shots. None of them ever had noise anywhere
near what your processed image shows. Even right out of the camera.

Like I said, there's not much noise in the image. IMO, it's being
introduced during processing.

Good Luck,
Steve
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
My gallery: http://silvercharm.digitalphotochat.com/gallery
POTDs at DPC: http://www.digitalphotocontest.com/profile.asp?pid=11986
 
I still played with this image, but that's not the full size image that the Sony produces. It should be 1920x2560, not 800x600. Don't think that's why you have problems with the colors, but I would recommend using the fine jpg for your 707 shots that you know you want to keep and print out.

Lisa
Pete D. said:
johnd1 said:
How about a full size image so we can tell you where you screwed up?
John
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
My gallery: http://silvercharm.digitalphotochat.com/gallery
POTDs at DPC: http://www.digitalphotocontest.com/profile.asp?pid=11986
 
Yep, I use PSP 7 exclusively. Never had quite that problem, I don't think....
Pete D. said:
Shay Stephens said:
What program are you using? In PS and PSE I can boost saturation
on your image to +50 without the building crop you indicated
looking the way your saturation adjustment looks.

Can you indicate the exact steps you took in editing and in what
program?

I don't see a problem with your camera or the way the image was
captured.

--
Shay

My Sony F707 & F717 Gallery: http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp
My F717 Observations: http://www.shaystephens.com/f717.asp
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Jim Fuglestad - Stickin' with my 707
Our existence is determined by the truths we tell.
Why simply live and let live? Live and help live.
http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/galleries
 
See my post for PSP 7 for better options to use for you 717 images that I posted while you were posting. :-) I used PSP 7 for my 707 for about six months and a year for my FD-95 until I got PS 6.0.

Lisa
Pete D. said:
Shay Stephens said:
What program are you using? In PS and PSE I can boost saturation
on your image to +50 without the building crop you indicated
looking the way your saturation adjustment looks.

Can you indicate the exact steps you took in editing and in what
program?

I don't see a problem with your camera or the way the image was
captured.

--
Shay

My Sony F707 & F717 Gallery: http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp
My F717 Observations: http://www.shaystephens.com/f717.asp
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
My gallery: http://silvercharm.digitalphotochat.com/gallery
POTDs at DPC: http://www.digitalphotocontest.com/profile.asp?pid=11986
 
You're right, Lisa. This does work better in that the artifacts don't show up. I wonder what the heck PSP 7 is doing with the Hue/Saturation/Lightness function that kills this photo? Perhaps I should move this posting to the "retouching" forum.

If I have to go out and lay down $1000 can$ for photoshop because PSP 7 doesn't like the F717 I will be really ticked. But my wife will throttle me for sure since I just finished spending $2000 in camera, memory, ink, and paper!
Lisa Young said:
Lisa
Pete D. said:
Shay Stephens said:
What program are you using? In PS and PSE I can boost saturation
on your image to +50 without the building crop you indicated
looking the way your saturation adjustment looks.

Can you indicate the exact steps you took in editing and in what
program?

I don't see a problem with your camera or the way the image was
captured.

--
Shay

My Sony F707 & F717 Gallery: http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp
My F717 Observations: http://www.shaystephens.com/f717.asp
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
My gallery: http://silvercharm.digitalphotochat.com/gallery
POTDs at DPC:
http://www.digitalphotocontest.com/profile.asp?pid=11986
Click to expand...
 
what I always use. I am familiar with post processing but I dont do.
Pete D. said:
I just recieved my new f717 yesterday. This thing has amazing
control and features compared to my "old" Canon S10! I spent most
of today getting familiar with the camera, and finally took it out
in the sunshine for a few test shots. What a disapointment! I
noticed that he sharpness and saturation were approximately the
same as my S10 (which I like). I sometimes like to boost both in my
editor. When I boosted the saturation 10% I couldn't believe my
eyes! The photo looked like I had applied a solarization effect.
The noise is so bad in the photo that I cannot apply ANY saturation
without ruining it. Of course applying USM has equally negative
effects on the noise.
My 4 year old S10 NEVER displayed noise like this. The photos from
that camera would blow this (f717) away for clarity and noise. I
will do side-by-side and post if anyone is interested. Of course it
doesn't have all the manual controls 5 Mp and 5X zoom etc. But what
good is all that if the photos are so poor?
I understand that there are programs out there that will help to
clean up the noise, but I don't have that kind of time to spend on
every photo, and I haven't seen any yet that don't remove some
detail.
Did I buy the wrong camera or did I get a dud?
The first photo is a re-size of the original shot in Auto,
sharpening at 0, full wide angle. The second is a detail crop of
the original. The third is 10% saturation applied.





Click to expand...
 
Pete,

I really don't think PSP treats your 717 any differently than it does any other jpeg file. Also, Photoshop Elements is the equivalent to PSP, and is comparably priced.

I just saturated an image +50 in my saturation in PSP, and it did give that solarize effect, but when I did an automatic color saturation it worked fine. I think it's just that the two software programs treat it differently. For instance, even if the PSP color sat did well, a +50 would be waaaay more enhanced than a +50 in PSE.

I think. ;-)
Pete D. said:
Lisa Young said:
Lisa
Pete D. said:
Shay Stephens said:
What program are you using? In PS and PSE I can boost saturation
on your image to +50 without the building crop you indicated
looking the way your saturation adjustment looks.

Can you indicate the exact steps you took in editing and in what
program?

I don't see a problem with your camera or the way the image was
captured.

--
Shay

My Sony F707 & F717 Gallery: http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp
My F717 Observations: http://www.shaystephens.com/f717.asp
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
My gallery: http://silvercharm.digitalphotochat.com/gallery
POTDs at DPC:
http://www.digitalphotocontest.com/profile.asp?pid=11986
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Jim Fuglestad - Stickin' with my 707
Our existence is determined by the truths we tell.
Why simply live and let live? Live and help live.
http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/galleries
 
Noise is quite visible in the full-size image, but it looks normal to me.

I too was a proud owner of a 2 MP S10, which had very low noise, in part due to the relatively large pixel size compared to the F717. The F717 CCD is only slightly larger than the S10, so its smaller pixels generate less current and therefore have a lower signal-to-noise ratio.

Also, the S10's metering is not nearly as accurate as the F717, and would tend to blow highlights by letting in too much light. Of course, more light means less noise.

None of this of course accounts for the strange results with PSP, but I think your camera is OK.

Chuck
 
You're right. I suspected it had something to do with the large amounts of grey or unsaturated areas in the photo so I opened up a G2 file with a big grey roof and applied the Hue/Saturation/Lightness effect at 10 saturation. The results were ghastly. The roof looked like Jacobs coat! It seems that PSP 7 can't handle some greys when in the H/S/L mode. I don't know why I have never noticed this before since I have been using PSP since it's inception. I guess it's time for yet another change! Goodbye Canon S10, Goodbye PSP 7. I will miss you! :-( Wish me luck in Sonyland!
Shutter said:
I really don't think PSP treats your 717 any differently than it
does any other jpeg file. Also, Photoshop Elements is the
equivalent to PSP, and is comparably priced.

I just saturated an image +50 in my saturation in PSP, and it did
give that solarize effect, but when I did an automatic color
saturation it worked fine. I think it's just that the two software
programs treat it differently. For instance, even if the PSP color
sat did well, a +50 would be waaaay more enhanced than a +50 in PSE.

I think. ;-)
Pete D. said:
Lisa Young said:
Lisa
Pete D. said:
Shay Stephens said:
What program are you using? In PS and PSE I can boost saturation
on your image to +50 without the building crop you indicated
looking the way your saturation adjustment looks.

Can you indicate the exact steps you took in editing and in what
program?

I don't see a problem with your camera or the way the image was
captured.

--
Shay

My Sony F707 & F717 Gallery: http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp
My F717 Observations: http://www.shaystephens.com/f717.asp
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
My gallery: http://silvercharm.digitalphotochat.com/gallery
POTDs at DPC:
http://www.digitalphotocontest.com/profile.asp?pid=11986
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Jim Fuglestad - Stickin' with my 707
Our existence is determined by the truths we tell.
Why simply live and let live? Live and help live.
http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/galleries
Click to expand...
 
Wisely said, I suspect. Thanks Netguru.
netguru717 said:
Pete D. said:
I just recieved my new f717 yesterday. This thing has amazing
control and features compared to my "old" Canon S10! I spent most
of today getting familiar with the camera, and finally took it out
in the sunshine for a few test shots. What a disapointment! I
noticed that he sharpness and saturation were approximately the
same as my S10 (which I like). I sometimes like to boost both in my
editor. When I boosted the saturation 10% I couldn't believe my
eyes! The photo looked like I had applied a solarization effect.
The noise is so bad in the photo that I cannot apply ANY saturation
without ruining it. Of course applying USM has equally negative
effects on the noise.
My 4 year old S10 NEVER displayed noise like this. The photos from
that camera would blow this (f717) away for clarity and noise. I
will do side-by-side and post if anyone is interested. Of course it
doesn't have all the manual controls 5 Mp and 5X zoom etc. But what
good is all that if the photos are so poor?
I understand that there are programs out there that will help to
clean up the noise, but I don't have that kind of time to spend on
every photo, and I haven't seen any yet that don't remove some
detail.
Did I buy the wrong camera or did I get a dud?
The first photo is a re-size of the original shot in Auto,
sharpening at 0, full wide angle. The second is a detail crop of
the original. The third is 10% saturation applied.





Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top