IF Sony moves to complete EVF ONLY and abandons OVF, I think I'll be selling my gear.

RANTING on!!!

So far it's only been a rumor, until SONY makes the official announcement... sigh ...

This is NOT the direction that I had in mind when I chose SONY over NIKON 5 years ago with the intro of the A100. Yes the SLT maybe the wave of the future but while the EVF is nice in the A33 that I just bought for me father, it doesn't compare to the 100% live view of the A900...

EVF is nice compared to the 75%or 85% dimly lit penta mirror OVF but pales to the true PENTA PRISM OVF.

I have a LOT of gear I'll be selling off, SONY don't force this issue, look at NIKON's solution they have a better hybrid EVF/OVF at least on paper...

Why is it this difficult to have a two tiered system? EVF for the low end to mid level bodies and the OVF for upper mid to high end (pro line)...

Ranting OFF

--
-Alex

From the minds of Minolta to the imagination of Sony, Alpha, like no other.

http://www.pbase.com/lonewolf69

Any CZ lens for sale in your gear?

I think Sony knows there'll be a lot more scrutiny if they put an EVF in a FF body ... but I'll share a couple of ways in which my A850 OVF lets me down:

1. It's not great in low light, and it's worthless as it approaches total darkness.
2. It's not great for manual focusing.
3. It doesn't help me level the image.
4. I have to take my eye away from the VF for certain camera adjustments.
5. It doesn't give me an exposure simulation.
6. It darkens when using DOF preview when stopped down.

I'm happy with the OVF, but would be happy if Sony improved the EVF such that there are only bonuses to its use; I think Sony will tread very carefully in this area, and that the projected 2012 time frame is based, in part, on a major EVF improvement project. This isn't saying you should stay the course, but maybe it's a suggestion about jumping the gun (especially based on rumor). Even if they bring out a FF body that you can't live with (because of the EVF), your current FF body will probably still be valuable to someone else who doesn't want the EVF but does want the excellent IQ.

--
Rich

http://philosurfer.zenfolio.com/

I have a lot invested in the Sony Sys and am hard pressed to jump ship. Besides I am happy with the results I am getting with my sys and don't see the advantage of moving to a different sys at this time

I will have a wait and see atitude as to how well EVF improves. IF it does you can count me in as staying with Sony.

For now I have my eye on an a580 to purchase this year to add to my a550 which replaced my a700 as of last year. The a700 was distroyed while on vacation.

The $800 price range is in more reach by a lot of enthusasts than the upper level mid range and FF.
--
Photo eye

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't sony say that they would only make slt's from now on.. They never said anything about there never being an OVF in an SLT.

--
Sony SLT-A55V, DSC-R1, & DSC-V3 - Epson R1800 & V700

Michael

So all the moaners will finally put their Sony equipment on ebay and switch to another brand.
Then we wont ear from them anymore.

hanugro said:

Any CZ lens for sale in your gear?

Click to expand...

are you kidding?

Normally the moaners have only sigma or tokina, manual focus minolta lenses and a camera body from few years ago. In many cases is a film body.

Michael B said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't sony say that they would only make slt's from now on.. They never said anything about there never being an OVF in an SLT.

--
Sony SLT-A55V, DSC-R1, & DSC-V3 - Epson R1800 & V700

Michael

Click to expand...

beside, the only official statement in that sense, that came from an high ranked Sony executive, was that the next FF body will have an optical viewfinder.

Well... I am one of the 59% of the current Sony DSLR owners that prefer to use a DSLR with an OVF than a DSLT with an EVF (41%). But, I am not planning on changing brands yet. At least not this year. My plans are to wait until Pentax comes out with their DSLR using the same sensor that Sony is going to use for the A77 and then start selling all my Minolta and Sony cameras and lenses and starting to buy Pentax lenses. Why Pentax and not Nikon or Canon? Because is the only other camera that also has In-Body stabilization system. The ONLY reason I make me decide on the begining to use Minolta and not Canon, or Nikon DSLR's.

And for those that may say try an SLT my answer is. I did already. I tried an A55 for one day before giving it away to my daughter for her to play with it. It is a nice cheap made camera. Good for those that are accustomed to use the cheap EVF in compact cameras. It maybe better than the penta mirror used in most cheap OVF DSLR's but not as good as the penta prism OVF used in good quality DSLR's. It was unable to lock focus, or to focus at all in most of the situations I tried it (during the night). Situations in which my A700 and even my A100 was able to focus with no problem at all.

...just stock up on the remaining Alpha 500's. A camera store chain in Canada cleared out their inventory of remaining Alpha 500 and 550 cameras at really low prices. I know a few members of this forum, myself included, both several. Maybe if the 560 and 580's go on sale once Sony fully dives into EVF, I'll get a couple more. I will admit that I am not a state of the art photographer, but I am happy with my Alpha 550 and 500. Much better than other cameras I have had, they take great high ISO photos indoors, have no hot pixels like those you read about on the Nikon forum. For guys like me, who are honest enough to admit that we will never try to make a living as pros, they they are fine cameras. Actually, this ma be an opportunity to stock up on the OVF cameras we like and stay out of this EVF thing and whatever else comes along. Who knows, maybe in a few years EVF will be great and I can switch then. It's not all bad news, OVF lovers. There likely will be deals out there. No need to dump your systems.

El Profe said:

It was unable to lock focus, or to focus at all in most of the situations I tried it (during the night). Situations in which my A700 and even my A100 was able to focus with no problem at all.

Click to expand...

That just doesn't sound right.

Yes, I have CZ and G series lenses. SLT is fine but there should be two options! SONY shouldn't be cramming it down our throats forcing EVF down our throats.

Unlike some here haven't tried out EVF, I have, and even bought one for my father. I test drove it to make sure there were no issues. The EVF has nice features to be sure but I'm NOT willing to give up my 100% OVF for the EVF.

1. SONY should have an option for both EVF and OVF
2. SLT should be MOVABLE as an option if needed to get the best possibe IQ

At best, the SLT design is a COMPROMISE solution and I'm surprised that SONY wasn't able to implement it better. The NIKON specs seems interesting and without compromise?

Gionni Dorelli said:

hanugro said:

Any CZ lens for sale in your gear?

Click to expand...

are you kidding?

Normally the moaners have only sigma or tokina, manual focus minolta lenses and a camera body from few years ago. In many cases is a film body.

Click to expand...

--
-Alex

From the minds of Minolta to the imagination of Sony, Alpha, like no other.

http://www.pbase.com/lonewolf69

i tried an a55 at a local store and i wasn't impressed at all. Things i didn't like : smaller body than my a550. You get to hold the grip with 3 fingers.
Very light weight body. I mounted my sal18-250 on it and its unbalanced.

The evf fail to impress me also. When i pan quikly left/right the evf is blurry. It happens in both modes video/photo. What happens if you tracking a fast moving object ?

So like others here i'm hoping that a7 series would bring a77 and a7xx to make all of us happy.

crisno1 said:

i tried an a55 at a local store and i wasn't impressed at all. Things i didn't like : smaller body than my a550. You get to hold the grip with 3 fingers.
Very light weight body. I mounted my sal18-250 on it and its unbalanced.

The evf fail to impress me also. When i pan quikly left/right the evf is blurry. It happens in both modes video/photo. What happens if you tracking a fast moving object ?

So like others here i'm hoping that a7 series would bring a77 and a7xx to make all of us happy

Click to expand...

i meant laggy. The evf is laggy not blurry. It won't allow me to edit my posting.

RichV said:

I think Sony knows there'll be a lot more scrutiny if they put an EVF in a FF body ... but I'll share a couple of ways in which my A850 OVF lets me down:

1. It's not great in low light, and it's worthless as it approaches total darkness.
2. It's not great for manual focusing.
3. It doesn't help me level the image.
4. I have to take my eye away from the VF for certain camera adjustments.
5. It doesn't give me an exposure simulation.
6. It darkens when using DOF preview when stopped down.

Click to expand...

And the advantages (for me anyway) of OVF are:
1. there is a greater feeling of 'intimacy'
2. there is more depth in the scene
3. it is better for tracking moving objects

1. and 2. are subjective, one gets used to the EVF and they no longer count (and 2. can even be misleading)

For 3. the OVF is still better, but there is no reason why the EVF, in time, cannot be given a refresh rate that will be faster than the eye can perceive. Anyway, for tracking I rather fancy the hybrid design where the optical view is wider than the sensor view allowing better tracking of moving objects (especially those with erratic changes of direction).

After using OVFs for many years I am still biased in favour of the OVF - hence I am getting an A580, not a SLT, but the EVF will replace the OVF and we will be happy with it. I felt I had lost something when I switched from TLR to SLR ( I even bought a waist-level viewer for my Topcon), but the advantages of SLR were great and I got used to peering at the world through a hole.

RichV said:

I think Sony knows there'll be a lot more scrutiny if they put an EVF in a FF body ... but I'll share a couple of ways in which my A850 OVF lets me down:

1. It's not great in low light, and it's worthless as it approaches total darkness.

Click to expand...

It can be done with Live-View. No EVF needed.

RichV said:

2. It's not great for manual focusing.

Click to expand...

It can be done with Live-View. No EVF needed.

RichV said:

3. It doesn't help me level the image.

Click to expand...

Nikon does, and with an OVF.

RichV said:

4. I have to take my eye away from the VF for certain camera adjustments.

Click to expand...

What adjustments?

RichV said:

5. It doesn't give me an exposure simulation.

Click to expand...

It can be done with Live-View. No EVF needed.

RichV said:

6. It darkens when using DOF preview when stopped down.

Click to expand...

It can be done with Live-View. No EVF needed.

RichV said:

--
Rich

http://philosurfer.zenfolio.com/

Click to expand...

--
Regards,
Juan

My online portfolio
http://www.endosphoto.com

lonewolf69 said:

Yes the SLT maybe the wave of the future but while the EVF is nice in the A33 that I just bought for me father, it doesn't compare to the 100% live view of the A900...

Click to expand...

Do you think the viewfinder of a 3 series camera is supposed to comparable with a 9 series camera? When in history has that ever been the case?

lonewolf69 said:

EVF is nice compared to the 75%or 85% dimly lit penta mirror OVF but pales to the true PENTA PRISM OVF.

Click to expand...

You agree that the 3 series EVF is better than a 3 series OVF. However, that tells us nothing about the capabilities of a 7/9 series EVF. It could be better than the A900 OVF. Unless you have tried one you do not know.

lonewolf69 said:

I have a LOT of gear I'll be selling off, SONY don't force this issue, look at NIKON's solution they have a better hybrid EVF/OVF at least on paper...

Click to expand...

There is no Nikon solution, it's not even vapourware at this point.

lonewolf69 said:

Why is it this difficult to have a two tiered system? EVF for the low end to mid level bodies and the OVF for upper mid to high end (pro line)...

Click to expand...

EVFs can be tiered as much as OVFs are. The A99 EVF could have 2x, even 4x better resolution and refresh rate of the A33 EVF.

I like a good view finder (I have a A850) and I don't like the EVF in the A55 but I'm not daft enough to say I would never use an EVF.

Substitute AF/MF for EVF/OVF and we're back to the arguments of the 80's. If Sony gain significant marketshare with EVF cameras then Canon/Nikon will follow like sheep.

OVF or EVF - as long as I have something I can press against my face I'll be fine with it. (Still don't like the hold at a distance live view thing...)

EVF's allows low light viewing, true continious focus during still photo/video, much higher frame rate etc. We get much more reponsive cameras, for sure with way better EVF's than the A33!

I think a few will leave Sony because the lack of an OVF, but a lot more users will be attracted by the camera's performance.

Who are leaving? Some from the old generation that are used with OVF's

Who are the newcomers? Young people, tomorrow's photographers, and some C/N/Pentax/Oly users who are atracted by new technology and the quality of Zeiss lenses.

- - -

OVF = Old fashion View Finder
EVF = Electronic View Finder

;-)

Ok Stephen,

If you're read the other thread on how SONY FF rate their cameras, you'll note that I wished the A900 had live view, I welcome it. I'm not against the idea of EVF but as it's currently implemented on my father's A33 (same as A55) I feel it is terrible tragedy IF SONY were to scrap the 100% OVF in favor of their current EVF technology.

IF SONY can somehow manage to pull a miracle and make the EVF better than the OVF without compromise then sure I'll bite. But having an EVF that is SUPERIOR to OVF is only one part of the equation because one then has to consider the degradation of IQ that a permanent SLT introduces into the equation.

There is no dispute that given two cameras with IDENTICAL imaging sensors, the camera body that has a permanent SLT (non moving mirror) will have an inferior IQ when compared to the other camera that has a traditional flip up mirror design, albeit the difference is minor (half stop and rare/minor ghosting issue) it is there.

For the RECORD, I'm willing to compromise and willing purchased an A33 as an ENTRY model/ MID Level model for my father because at THIS level, the compromises that SONY introduced for the SLT as stated above IMHO is acceptable. However what is NOT acceptable to me, is a compromise for a high end, pro class level body and to me, IF the rumors are true, I'm truly at a cross road.

Stephen, please don't mis-understand, I'm all for technology, and advances in the industry, that's why I chose to stay with the Alpha line in 2006, In body stabilization, I get to keep my FF lenses from my legacy film bodies, "G" 100 & 50mm Macro lenses, and now my CZ 24-70mm, I was SO happy to see the firmware finally release for my beloved A900 (I truly WISHED it had live view instead of intelligent preview) to me it's the PERFECT camera (sans live view). I truly HOPE that SONY doesn't kill off the OVF for the FF or higher ended bodies, OR perhaps INTRODUCE an EVF/SLT system that has no COMPROMISE...

I didn't mean to imply that the 9 or 7 series will be getting the same EXACT 3 VF, where did I ever say that? I just don't want the technology of the 3 or 5 series (EVF & SLT currently inferior) to compromise the higher ended bodies...

Stephen Carpenter said:

lonewolf69 said:

Yes the SLT maybe the wave of the future but while the EVF is nice in the A33 that I just bought for me father, it doesn't compare to the 100% live view of the A900...

Click to expand...

Do you think the viewfinder of a 3 series camera is supposed to comparable with a 9 series camera? When in history has that ever been the case?

Stephen Carpenter said:

EVF is nice compared to the 75%or 85% dimly lit penta mirror OVF but pales to the true PENTA PRISM OVF.

Click to expand...

You agree that the 3 series EVF is better than a 3 series OVF. However, that tells us nothing about the capabilities of a 7/9 series EVF. It could be better than the A900 OVF. Unless you have tried one you do not know.

Stephen Carpenter said:

I have a LOT of gear I'll be selling off, SONY don't force this issue, look at NIKON's solution they have a better hybrid EVF/OVF at least on paper...

Click to expand...

There is no Nikon solution, it's not even vapourware at this point.

Stephen Carpenter said:

Why is it this difficult to have a two tiered system? EVF for the low end to mid level bodies and the OVF for upper mid to high end (pro line)...

Click to expand...

EVFs can be tiered as much as OVFs are. The A99 EVF could have 2x, even 4x better resolution and refresh rate of the A33 EVF.

I like a good view finder (I have a A850) and I don't like the EVF in the A55 but I'm not daft enough to say I would never use an EVF.

Substitute AF/MF for EVF/OVF and we're back to the arguments of the 80's. If Sony gain significant marketshare with EVF cameras then Canon/Nikon will follow like sheep.

Click to expand...

--
-Alex

From the minds of Minolta to the imagination of Sony, Alpha, like no other.

http://www.pbase.com/lonewolf69