"Old School" settings

Razr

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Back in the days", before "auto" this or "Auto" that, we had "Standard" (manual) settings for this or that type of shots.
You would set f/5.6 @ 1/60th on your camera for most in-studio shots.
Billions of frames of print film were shot with that setting.

( Film Speeds ranged from the Turtilishly slow ISO 6 to the then "blazingly fast" ISO 64 .)

A lot of space and time has recently been devoted to hashing out "The Inverse Square Law".

( Back in the days before Vivitar released their 283 "Thyristor" flashes, the inverse square law ( a simple division problem) had a fixed quotient (10 feet).

What with "modern" ( Read: never shot film or non-auto flash systems ) photographers, those who never learned full manual flash shooting,

As technology advanced and film speeds increased, cameras became more sophisticated and KODAK's PJM (Photojournalist- Multi-speed ) took over the film speed race, shooting at ISO 400 to 640 to ISO 800, without having to change your camera's film speed indicator, its "Multi-speed" (later renamed " Ektapress " Multispeed) aspect certainly cutting down on a photographer's need to purchase and shoot different can speeds.

What also occurred during those days ( more automation in cameras ) was print film shooters (all there was) were conspicuous with their constant reminders of how print film had/has at least two stops of shooting and development latitude, while most transparencies (slides) (with a sort of pre-digital angst) had fewer than two stops, print film soon enough going on to ISO 800 (where most film plateau(d) speed-wise.

( Though some B&W print films had often been and some still are "pushed" to ISO 25,600! )

Today, what with tens of millions of people who have had access to digital imaging only and have foolishly eschewed shooting film (as I still do), buying now underpowered, sub-pixeled DSLRS while passing on inexpensinve Nikon F5 film bodies.

It seems they do not know older Nikon film SLRs will drive the newest VR/IS lenses with no sweat/.
Or those old Canon EOS3 "ubercameras" w/boosters can be bought for under $500!
Me?
I've started stocking up on old film uber-cameras.

What's not to like with an 8fps film body that exposes film to perfection and to a finer degree most digital cameras, including most of those really sorry "entry-level" DSLRs have to envy?
 
Today, what with tens of millions of people who have had access to digital imaging only and have foolishly eschewed shooting film (as I still do), buying now underpowered, sub-pixeled DSLRS while passing on inexpensinve Nikon F5 film bodies.
Foolishly? I don't think so. I started in the 60s with a meterless Pentax & worked my way eventually Nikon F3 & F100. Great cameras but I would never go back. My Canon 7D is hardly "sub-pixeled" whatever that means.
It seems they do not know older Nikon film SLRs will drive the newest VR/IS lenses with no sweat/.
Or those old Canon EOS3 "ubercameras" w/boosters can be bought for under $500!
Sure we know, just don't care.
Me?
I've started stocking up on old film uber-cameras.
Good for you have fun.
What's not to like with an 8fps film body that exposes film to perfection and to a finer degree most digital cameras, including most of those really sorry "entry-level" DSLRs have to envy?
Even today's entry to mid level cameras (550D, D500 & others) are far better than 35mm ever was.
--
Brian Schneider

 
Well Im from that era and altohugh I still have my Olympus Om1n and Mamiya 645 with hand held Sekonic light merter....I wouldnt seriously go back.I love my 7D and 24 -105 lens to much.
 
Hi

Settings: educated guesswork...
So how far back in history do you want to go?
Sending your Brownie off to Kodak for processing and reloading?

Finding out you screwed up exposure, focus, or composition only when you processed the film?
Limiting your Speed Graphic 4 x5 sheet holders to 2 shots each?

Flash bulbs that were mad hot to handle and occasionally exploded in your subject's face?

One thing I miss about the 'past' is when I worked in my uncle's retail processing shop as a printer...my high school friends' parents sent their rolls in for processing, so I got to see their rather embarassing antics that their own kids weren't aware of!

--
http://s60.photobucket.com/albums/h40/rclarkphotos/?albumview=grid
 
I don't read the OP as film vs. digital but rather the loss of the "old school" skills. Most people today could not put the camera on spot metering and the camera on manual settings and get the exposure right, not to mention white balance correction. Not to worry you can always fix it in PP. Slide didn't have any PP.

I'm looking at getting a MF camera with a digital back but no TTL meter or auto anything.

Using the D3 in full manual has put the fun of using my hard earned skills back into photography. I'm now taking some of the best digital photos I ever have.

Chris
 
That's one way. The craft has evolved though, so the necessary skill set of yore is not necessarily required.

I've considered picking up a Bessa, but in the end sending the film out just doesn't suit my life at this moment. Being able to shoot, then return home to develop and print in my corner of the living room is too darn enabling. But it's not about the results that I think of this from time to time - it's more for the experience of it (romantic notions).

Have a blast.

--
...Bob, NYC

'Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't.' - Little Big Man

http://www.bobtullis.com
 
I'm with Chris above. My 'old school' knowledge paid off....my photos are 3X better than when I used film....don't miss the cost of film+ process (or the chemicals)...and I can see the results pretty much instantly. Having said that, I'm still game for 4x5 B&W...something that digital just can't accomplish at this moment. No big.

Leswick
 
Even today's entry to mid level cameras (550D, D500 & others) are far better than 35mm ever was.
"Far better" only in terms of less cost per exposure and shorter time from exposure to viewing. I'm not sure if those cameras are better in any other respect than the best film cameras.

As far as automation is concerned, autofocus is equal; autoexposure is either a wash or better with film (due to the greater latitude of film vs digital, if for no other reason). Lenses are a wash, since in most cases the lenses are interchangeable. Viewfinders are generally held to be superior with the film SLRs, and certainly manual operation is superior with the older cameras (since they were built for it).

Image quality? I think if you compare the highest quality scans of film you'll need to go to the best FX digitals to get even close to that level of resolution.

Longevity? Most folks around here generally seem to think the service life of a dSLR from purchase to discard due to obsolescence is three years, whereas there are many film cameras over 50 years old traded on ebay every day -- many for more money than those same mid-level dSLRs.

Ruggedness? Just the other day I was reading something on one of the photo sites where the author and his wife both dropped cameras on a trip to Venice. His wife dropped a dSLR into the bottom of a boat, and it died completely. He dropped a film camera and it caused a small dent on the neck strap holder, otherwise it kept working just fine. I'm not sure how representative that is, but digital's vulnerability to dropping is well known, and I'm certain the high end film Nikons the OP mentioned are very rugged.

Have I left anything out?
 
  • Committing yourself to one ISO for an entire roll.
  • Having to decide in advance if an image would look better color or monochrome
  • Grain
  • The cost and delay of processing
  • Grain
  • Emulsion scratches
  • Making a mistake during processing and screwing up an entire roll
  • Grain
  • The tediousness of trying to precisely reproduce a print the same way you did months before, but now at a slightly different size
35mm film doesn't come close to the quality of full frame DSLR; it's like arguing that a pony and trap is a better way of getting to your destination than a car. Just because something is inconvenient, slow, requires arcane skills to master and produces poor results doesn't make it somehow more noble. Just obsolete.

Kevin
 
  • Committing yourself to one ISO for an entire roll.
Most people don't change ISO that much on digitals anyway.
  • Having to decide in advance if an image would look better color or monochrome
Shoot in color, scan to digital and it's no different than a digital original. Actually, you have the advantage of real b&w instead of digital pseudo b&w if you want.
People like grain. Grain can be beautiful. People insert artificial grain into digital photographs because people like grain and digital noise is unsightly.
  • The cost and delay of processing
Already conceeded.
People like grain. Grain can be beautiful. People insert artificial grain into digital photographs because people like grain and digital noise is unsightly.
  • Emulsion scratches
true
  • Making a mistake during processing and screwing up an entire roll
true, but if you send it out professionally, how often does that actually happen?
People like grain. Grain can be beautiful. People insert artificial grain into digital photographs because people like grain and digital noise is unsightly.
  • The tediousness of trying to precisely reproduce a print the same way you did months before, but now at a slightly different size
?? I don't understand this. If you shoot on film and scan to digital, how is printing from that file any different than if you shot digitally in the first place? Only difference is, you could print analog if you want in addition to printing digitally.
35mm film doesn't come close to the quality of full frame DSLR;
Given a high quality scan, film exceeds the image quality of FX DSLRs. You'd need to go digital MF to get the same resolution as the best film scans of 35mm. And if you want to make that comparison, then let's compare film MF to digital MF. Or, let's compare film 4x5 with digital MF. I'm afraid in a megapixel race, there's always a way to find film ahead. And let's not forget, we were comparing film to mid-level digital SLRs, and they're not FX, they're all crop sensor.
it's like arguing that a pony and trap is a better way of getting to your destination than a car. Just because something is inconvenient, slow, requires arcane skills to master and produces poor results doesn't make it somehow more noble. Just obsolete.
No, I think the argument is closer to gas vs electric automobiles, with each having strengths and weaknesses; but you have switched the argument to digital vs film rather than digital cameras vs film cameras as the original poster had it. I was responding to the comment that mid-level digital cameras were superior to the best film cameras. As far as I can see, the argument remains as I originally had it: digital wins when it comes to ease and cost of processing and speed from shoot to finished product; and that's no surprise. We knew that going in. But aside from that, those mid-level digitals lose every time.

As for "arcane skills," how much different are the skills required to shoot film and send it out for processing and digitizing than to shoot digitally? It's not exactly an "arcane skill" to put a roll if film in a package and mail it off to a lab. Nor is loading a roll of film an "arcane skill." You want to talk about arcane skills, I think Photoshop and Gimp are at least as arcane, if not far more arcane, than developing film and printing it. Any way you look at it, photography is a high tech endeavor and it takes skill to master it.

As for "poor results," I'd say at least 90% of the best images ever photographed were shot on film and printed analog. The best digital can do is emulate analog.
 
Even today's entry to mid level cameras (550D, D500 & others) are far better than 35mm ever was.
"Far better" only in terms of less cost per exposure and shorter time from exposure to viewing. I'm not sure if those cameras are better in any other respect than the best film cameras.
Better in every way.
As far as automation is concerned, autofocus is equal; autoexposure is either a wash or better with film (due to the greater latitude of film vs digital, if for no other reason). Lenses are a wash, since in most cases the lenses are interchangeable. Viewfinders are generally held to be superior with the film SLRs, and certainly manual operation is superior with the older cameras (since they were built for it).

Image quality? I think if you compare the highest quality scans of film you'll need to go to the best FX digitals to get even close to that level of resolution.
APSC blows away any film I've ever used. FF is more like medium format.
Longevity? Most folks around here generally seem to think the service life of a dSLR from purchase to discard due to obsolescence is three years, whereas there are many film cameras over 50 years old traded on ebay every day -- many for more money than those same mid-level dSLRs.
So what?
Ruggedness? Just the other day I was reading something on one of the photo sites where the author and his wife both dropped cameras on a trip to Venice. His wife dropped a dSLR into the bottom of a boat, and it died completely. He dropped a film camera and it caused a small dent on the neck strap holder, otherwise it kept working just fine. I'm not sure how representative that is, but digital's vulnerability to dropping is well known, and I'm certain the high end film Nikons the OP mentioned are very rugged.
There have been lots of reports of dSLRs dropped with no ill effects. And damaged film cameras. I once dropped an F3 & it cost &360 1988 dollars to fix.
A canon 1d or (ugg) D3 will stand up to anything the best film cameras will.
Have I left anything out?
--
Brian Schneider

 
Another Filmosaur maunder post.

what was the subject?
--
Member of The Pet Rock Owners and Breeders Association
Boarding and Training at Reasonable Rates
Photons by the bag.
Gravitons no longer shipped outside US or Canada
-----.....------

if I mock you, it may be well deserved.
 
In the "old days" in order to share their opinion about such things, one would have to:
1 Write their thoughts down on paper
2 Put it in an envelope, stamp it and address it to the local newspaper
3 Bring it to the mail box
4 Hope it gets there
5 Hope the editor reads it
6 Hope he likes it enough to print it
7 Hope people read it
8 Never know what people think of your opinion

God I miss the old days
 
Well Im from that era and altohugh I still have my Olympus Om1n and Mamiya 645 with hand held Sekonic light merter....I wouldnt seriously go back.I love my 7D and 24 -105 lens to much.
How did their ad go?....." From the mind of ..." who was that guy???
--

28 years as a freelancer,(news,magazine, wedding photography) camera equip. over the years: Practica MLT, Canon A1, Minolta 9xi, 7xi, Dimage Z1,Fuji 5200,Canon S2,Pentax K100D,Olympus 380,Canon SX 10, Canon 40D ( http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v104/Buckl/ )
http://issuu.com/Lbuck
 

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