Is interest waning???

Mike Greer · Nov 15, 2002

Wayne DeWitt said:
People are upset at a price stated and then retracted for a
non-existant product?

Watne,

If you see nothing wrong with this, then so be it. I can't make you see. Suffice it say that I think it is bad policy and it sews bad faith. That fact is that Kodak used that pricing to garner mucho attention at Photokina. And it worked like a charm. Then they backed off what they announce a mere 4-5 weeks later.

Maybe they never intended to sell at the price. Maybe when Canon didn't backed down on the1Ds price they upped their price. Who knows. But if they weren't commited to it, they shouldn't have said anything about it. They could have just stated a list price and left it at that. But they obviously felt they had to make a splash by publicly announcing street price.

Wayne DeWitt said:
A product still in the prototype stage. Who has been damaged by this?

I don't know if "damage" is the right word. But I feel mislead. AND I feel I've invested a lot of time I wouldn't have overwise invested if I'd known what the price was going to be. I was looking into upgrading my system. I'm a Canon user heavily invested in Canon lenses. But when the pricing of the 1Ds became known, it was too much for me relative to what I thought the pricing of the 14n was going to be. When I became aware of the 14n, I started doing a lot of investigation of Kodak's software and Nikon's lens lineup. I was planning and plotting on what I'd keep and what I'd sell. This was based on a $4000 body price point and figuring the new lenses and strobes I'd need. But with a $5000 body price point, the difference bewteen the 14n with lenses, strobes, etc. and the 1Ds is reduced. So much so that going through the hassle of selling things, trading systems, etc. isn't as appealing anymore.

Wayne DeWitt said:
I too was excited at the prospect of a $4000 14mp
camera. I too was disappointed at the going price ($4599 at my
dealer). So what?

If they hadn't stoked the flames with their announcement, then I'd agree. But that's not what they did and to me it stinks. Plain and simple. You disagree. Fine.

Wayne DeWitt said:
It's reality. I deal with it either by accepting
it, or walking away from the deal. Nothing is set in stone until a
product exists.

Software companies were famous for announcing vaperware product soley for the purpose of killing demand for competing products. So much so that I believe some laws were passed. This isn't quite that bad, but it's in the same direction.

Nefrodite · Nov 15, 2002

I've always interpreted "street price" to mean what retailers will charge once the product is released in large volumes into the marketplace.

Kodak has neither said nor done anything that is inconsistent with this undertstanding, have they?

Do others really think of "street price" as something to be expected when a product is just out of the gate in small quantities? When demand is likely to far, far outstrip supply?
How very odd.

Mike Greer said:
Wayne DeWitt said:

People are upset at a price stated and then retracted for a
non-existant product?

Click to expand...

Watne,

If you see nothing wrong with this, then so be it. I can't make you
see. Suffice it say that I think it is bad policy and it sews bad
faith. That fact is that Kodak used that pricing to garner mucho
attention at Photokina. And it worked like a charm. Then they
backed off what they announce a mere 4-5 weeks later.

Maybe they never intended to sell at the price. Maybe when Canon
didn't backed down on the1Ds price they upped their price. Who
knows. But if they weren't commited to it, they shouldn't have said
anything about it. They could have just stated a list price and
left it at that. But they obviously felt they had to make a splash
by publicly announcing street price.

Mike Greer said:

A product still in the prototype stage. Who has been damaged by this?

Click to expand...

I don't know if "damage" is the right word. But I feel mislead. AND
I feel I've invested a lot of time I wouldn't have overwise
invested if I'd known what the price was going to be. I was looking
into upgrading my system. I'm a Canon user heavily invested in
Canon lenses. But when the pricing of the 1Ds became known, it was
too much for me relative to what I thought the pricing of the 14n
was going to be. When I became aware of the 14n, I started doing a
lot of investigation of Kodak's software and Nikon's lens lineup. I
was planning and plotting on what I'd keep and what I'd sell. This
was based on a $4000 body price point and figuring the new lenses
and strobes I'd need. But with a $5000 body price point, the
difference bewteen the 14n with lenses, strobes, etc. and the 1Ds
is reduced. So much so that going through the hassle of selling
things, trading systems, etc. isn't as appealing anymore.

Mike Greer said:

I too was excited at the prospect of a $4000 14mp
camera. I too was disappointed at the going price ($4599 at my
dealer). So what?

Click to expand...

If they hadn't stoked the flames with their announcement, then I'd
agree. But that's not what they did and to me it stinks. Plain and
simple. You disagree. Fine.

Mike Greer said:

It's reality. I deal with it either by accepting
it, or walking away from the deal. Nothing is set in stone until a
product exists.

Click to expand...

Software companies were famous for announcing vaperware product
soley for the purpose of killing demand for competing products. So
much so that I believe some laws were passed. This isn't quite that
bad, but it's in the same direction.

Philip K · Nov 15, 2002

NEFrodite said:
I've always interpreted "street price" to mean what retailers will
charge once the product is released in large volumes into the
marketplace.

Kodak has neither said nor done anything that is inconsistent with
this undertstanding, have they?

The certainly have done something wrong when the "street price" is less than the dealer's cost!

When Nikon or Canon says street price they mean MAP (Minimium Advertised Price). Most of their best dealers sell at that price even on hot items.

Kodak pulled a fast one!

Philip

Masterdeath · Nov 15, 2002

Even I am feeling very burned by Kodak on this.. If only they would so something right.. Either release some images, bring down the price or make sure they ship ON TIME... If we allready had images by now or the price would not have gone up we would not be complaining.. But at one month from release I think they should have pics of now.. I have been a very patenent person (bad spelling sorry) but at this point I am looking at a S2 also... I am giving it 1 month.. If I dont see some good pics and if I dont look like im getting one before March then I need to goto S2 to make more money for the busy season...

Thanks
MD

Philip K said:
BJN said:

The Fuji is far from the camera I really want, but it will
do until the replacement has a track record and comes in closer to
the price originally bounced around.

Click to expand...

You have found a solution that currently works for you. Though my
solution is different it works for me.

I am opting out of being on the cutting edge of technology. I will
let others pave the road with their money.

It is possible that I may still get the 14n when proven, though
sync speed will still be a problem. What I do know is that whatever
I chose to replace my MF camera for portraits will have to be on
the market and proven before I will buy it.

Philip

Mike Greer · Nov 21, 2002

NEFrodite said:
I've always interpreted "street price" to mean what retailers will
charge once the product is released in large volumes into the
marketplace.

Kodak has neither said nor done anything that is inconsistent with
this undertstanding, have they?

Do others really think of "street price" as something to be
expected when a product is just out of the gate in small
quantities?

ABSOLUTELY! Why else would the manufacturer announce it? If street price isn't settled, why not just announce MSRP and leave it at that?

Nefrodite said:
When demand is likely to far, far outstrip supply?
How very odd.

Not odd at all. When a manufacturer announces a "street price", they know what the dealer cost is and they know approx how much it will sell for in the distribution channel. After all, the manufacturer sets the MSRP, MAP, and dealer cost. Kodak announced a "street price" of $4000. Then later on, they set dealer cost at $4200! How in the world is a product going to have a street price of $4K when that's lower than the dealer cost?

You just can't get around the fact that they wouldn't to make a splash at Photokina, then later wanted make more money. I have nothing against making as much as you can. However, I do have a problem with wanting to have it both ways. Make a splash and stick to the costs. Or keep your price points where you want them and forego the dishonest announcements. Do one or the other, not both.

Nefrodite said:
Mike Greer said:

Wayne DeWitt said:

People are upset at a price stated and then retracted for a
non-existant product?

Click to expand...

Watne,

If you see nothing wrong with this, then so be it. I can't make you
see. Suffice it say that I think it is bad policy and it sews bad
faith. That fact is that Kodak used that pricing to garner mucho
attention at Photokina. And it worked like a charm. Then they
backed off what they announce a mere 4-5 weeks later.

Maybe they never intended to sell at the price. Maybe when Canon
didn't backed down on the1Ds price they upped their price. Who
knows. But if they weren't commited to it, they shouldn't have said
anything about it. They could have just stated a list price and
left it at that. But they obviously felt they had to make a splash
by publicly announcing street price.

Nefrodite said:

A product still in the prototype stage. Who has been damaged by this?

Click to expand...

I don't know if "damage" is the right word. But I feel mislead. AND
I feel I've invested a lot of time I wouldn't have overwise
invested if I'd known what the price was going to be. I was looking
into upgrading my system. I'm a Canon user heavily invested in
Canon lenses. But when the pricing of the 1Ds became known, it was
too much for me relative to what I thought the pricing of the 14n
was going to be. When I became aware of the 14n, I started doing a
lot of investigation of Kodak's software and Nikon's lens lineup. I
was planning and plotting on what I'd keep and what I'd sell. This
was based on a $4000 body price point and figuring the new lenses
and strobes I'd need. But with a $5000 body price point, the
difference bewteen the 14n with lenses, strobes, etc. and the 1Ds
is reduced. So much so that going through the hassle of selling
things, trading systems, etc. isn't as appealing anymore.

Nefrodite said:

I too was excited at the prospect of a $4000 14mp
camera. I too was disappointed at the going price ($4599 at my
dealer). So what?

Click to expand...

If they hadn't stoked the flames with their announcement, then I'd
agree. But that's not what they did and to me it stinks. Plain and
simple. You disagree. Fine.

Nefrodite said:

It's reality. I deal with it either by accepting
it, or walking away from the deal. Nothing is set in stone until a
product exists.

Click to expand...

Software companies were famous for announcing vaperware product
soley for the purpose of killing demand for competing products. So
much so that I believe some laws were passed. This isn't quite that
bad, but it's in the same direction.

Click to expand...

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Is interest waning???

Mike Greer

Leading Member

Nefrodite

Well-known member

Philip K

Leading Member

Masterdeath

Senior Member

Mike Greer

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