Most important: Lens decision

Hi,

I have done research on internet since some time to decide between d7000 and a580. Till now I could only decide between the bodies, which was a easy comparison to make since there are only two of them. I decided for the new Sony which is cheaper, newer and it seems like sony aims and will be aiming the lead in the dslr market.

Unfortunately the decision about the lens is far more complex since there are so many of them and it can effect on my decision about the "body brand".

Correct me if Im wrong: I need a wide angle lens for narrow street views and indoor photos but I also need a lens for general use, for landscape views. Lenses without zoom perform better than those with zoom in general.

Note that I am a serious enthusiast.

I think I am going to buy the Sony a580 with its kit lens (18-55) for 949 swiss franks (937 franks without the kit). I can invest up to 1000 dollars for the wide angle lens. Maybe later I can buy Konica Minolta 50mm for general use.

What do you think? Any opinions!

Thanks.

Enginsal said:

Hi,

I have done research on internet since some time to decide between d7000 and a580. Till now I could only decide between the bodies, which was a easy comparison to make since there are only two of them. I decided for the new Sony which is cheaper, newer and it seems like sony aims and will be aiming the lead in the dslr market.

Unfortunately the decision about the lens is far more complex since there are so many of them and it can effect on my decision about the "body brand".

Click to expand...

It definitely can.

Enginsal said:

Correct me if Im wrong: I need a wide angle lens for narrow street views and indoor photos but I also need a lens for general use, for landscape views. Lenses without zoom perform better than those with zoom in general.

Click to expand...

Do you want a telephoto lens? Most people would eventually. It all depends on what you plan on shooting.

Enginsal said:

Note that I am a serious enthusiast.

I think I am going to buy the Sony a580 with its kit lens (18-55) for 949 swiss franks (937 franks without the kit). I can invest up to 1000 dollars for the wide angle lens. Maybe later I can buy Konica Minolta 50mm for general use.

Click to expand...

With that size budget, my suggestion is to skip the 18-55mm kit lens entirely, and increase your budget to $1.1k

Truthfully, my usual suggestion for ultra wide would be Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8 (Considered one of the best APS-C ultra wide-angle lenses). However, I doubt you really need an UWA for most things. I'll suggest a few certain lenses that you should look into. (Not in any particular order)

1. Carl Zeiss 16-80mm f/3.5-4.5
2. Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8
3. Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8
4. Sony 16-105mm f/3.5-5.6

--
A Beginning Amateur Photographer

Enginsal said:

Hi,

I have done research on internet since some time to decide between d7000 and a580. Till now I could only decide between the bodies, which was a easy comparison to make since there are only two of them. I decided for the new Sony which is cheaper, newer and it seems like sony aims and will be aiming the lead in the dslr market.

Unfortunately the decision about the lens is far more complex since there are so many of them and it can effect on my decision about the "body brand".

Correct me if Im wrong: I need a wide angle lens for narrow street views and indoor photos but I also need a lens for general use, for landscape views. Lenses without zoom perform better than those with zoom in general.

Note that I am a serious enthusiast.

I think I am going to buy the Sony a580 with its kit lens (18-55) for 949 swiss franks (937 franks without the kit). I can invest up to 1000 dollars for the wide angle lens. Maybe later I can buy Konica Minolta 50mm for general use.

What do you think? Any opinions!

Thanks.

Click to expand...

since u want soo much i recommend u get the A580 + the 16-80mm cz lens..that should do it all....

Enginsal said:

Hi,

I have done research on internet since some time to decide between d7000 and a580. Till now I could only decide between the bodies, which was a easy comparison to make since there are only two of them. I decided for the new Sony which is cheaper, newer and it seems like sony aims and will be aiming the lead in the dslr market.

Click to expand...

Hi Enginsal,

I think that you are comparing two rather different cameras. Although they carry the same sensor, that is about where the comparisons between the d7000 and a580 end. The d7000 is much more serious camera. It has a very advanced AF system, customizable shooting modes, a partially magnesium body, a much better viewfinder, higher flash sync speed, 3 point manual focus confirmation, electronic level, and mirror lock up. I'm not 100% sure, but I also think you can microadjust focusing on it. You need to run through each of feature differences between these cameras and see if you need them. However, I'm lead to be believe from your writing that you haven't had enough experience with dslrs to really know what you need and don't need. Therefor, I recommend you find the cheapest, used dslr you can find, with a kit lens or cheap prime, and start learning about the different features. Then, when you are ready, you can invest into something more serious.

Enginsal said:

Unfortunately the decision about the lens is far more complex since there are so many of them and it can effect on my decision about the "body brand".

Click to expand...

You are absolutely right about this. This is because ever manufacturer has a different camera mount. w

Enginsal said:

Correct me if Im wrong: I need a wide angle lens for narrow street views and indoor photos but I also need a lens for general use, for landscape views. Lenses without zoom perform better than those with zoom in general.

Click to expand...

You are wrong. Crop sensor wide angles tend to have a pretty high f stop. Therefor, they are not great to use in low light as you might find indoors. Moreover, they show heavy distortion, which would be tough for a beginner to deal with indoors. You are making a common beginners mistake. You are picking things out that you might need before you actually know IF you need them. Online research and reading forums does not compare to having taken tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of photos beforehand. I have been shooting since grade school, and just now, in my final year of college, have I upgraded to a camera that comes close to the specs of the a580 and d7000 (Sony A700).

Here is another fact that most people tend to overlook. The more lenses you bring, the more shots you miss. It seems counterintuitive, but it's true. What ends up happening is that you start wondering which lens would be the best one to use and then start switching between them. In the meanwhile, you could've been moving around and found a better angle to take the photo with.

Enginsal said:

Note that I am a serious enthusiast.

Click to expand...

As you are a serious enthusiast, my advice is this. Take it slowly. For now, buy used. Find a cheap camera, like a sony a230 (you can find them for 200 dollars with lens). Use it until it breaks (which will be awhile). Resist any urge to buy more things for it. Then, when you know (not think, but know your ready), get something more serious. If you are serious about photography, and not just in gadgets or looking cool, this would be your best route. Remember, the more expensive your camera, the better people expect your photos to be. Therefor, be sure that you can take those great photos before you invest. Hope that helps!

Enginsal said:

I think I am going to buy the Sony a580 with its kit lens (18-55) for 949 swiss franks (937 franks without the kit). I can invest up to 1000 dollars for the wide angle lens. Maybe later I can buy Konica Minolta 50mm for general use.

What do you think? Any opinions!

Thanks.

Click to expand...

My First DSLR was a a200 and I bought the Carl Ziess DT 16-80mm F3.5-4.5 and I couldn't be happier. What a great universal Soldier... Just ordered the a580
--
AC

I think you are making a smart choice the A580 will serve your needs now and for years to come. the 16-80 Sony CZ would my choice as is is an ecellant choice. save up for a longer zoom if you need it of pick up some good Minilta prime lens. I am a photojournalist and I use a A550 and a A 700. I have more invested in quality glass than in cameras.

mkdafne said:

Hi Enginsal,

I think that you are comparing two rather different cameras. Although they carry the same sensor, that is about where the comparisons between the d7000 and a580 end. The d7000 is much more serious camera. It has a very advanced AF system, customizable shooting modes, a partially magnesium body, a much better viewfinder, higher flash sync speed, 3 point manual focus confirmation, electronic level, and mirror lock up. I'm not 100% sure, but I also think you can microadjust focusing on it. You need to run through each of feature differences between these cameras and see if you need them. However, I'm lead to be believe from your writing that you haven't had enough experience with dslrs to really know what you need and don't need. Therefor, I recommend you find the cheapest, used dslr you can find, with a kit lens or cheap prime, and start learning about the different features. Then, when you are ready, you can invest into something more serious.

Click to expand...

Hi mkdafne,

Thanks a lot for your response.

My first dslr was a Canon eos 450. I used it for 2 years. My father, who has seen the pictures I make, can not be satisfied with his 4 years old kodak compact anymore So he has offered me buying me a new dslr so that he can use my old one.

I am sure you think I ought to move on with the eos 450 and you are totally right, but its a little bit too late now.

I don't agree that I should buy an old cam and than upgrade it to a newer one and so on. I think both d7000 and a580 are rational choices (and occasions) to gain intermediate experiences.

Yet, I will still consider your main advice (taking things slowly) and wont buy an additional lens.

Well, you did not tell us you already own a Canon 450D... What lens(es) did you use and at what focal length you shot most? What do you miss and what do you want now?

If I had to buy now and deciding in the now, not the future, I would choose a Tamron 17-50mm 2.8 lens with a Sony A580 and go from there...

...and buy Tokina 11-18 2.8 for wide and/or Sigma 70-200 2.8 HSM II later on, if needed.

2 years ago to I decided to buy Full Frame lenses only and choose:

• Konica-Minolta 17-35 2.8-4
• Tamron 28-75 2.8
• Sigma 70-200 2.8 HSM II

The lenses stay, new bodies will come... maybe...

--
coen

Remember http://www.pbase.com/mtf_foto_studies/mtf_faq

coen van dijk said:

Well, you did not tell us you already own a Canon 450D... What lens(es) did you use and at what focal length you shot most? What do you miss and what do you want now?

Click to expand...

I had only the standard 18-55 and I wasnt happy with it at all. I mostly shot between 18-30. I dont miss anything about it, since I didnt own any other dslr. In the meantime I'm using a pentax mz-7 (analog), but it is not something comparisive...

Enginsal said:

coen van dijk said:

Well, you did not tell us you already own a Canon 450D... What lens(es)
did you use and at what focal length you shot most? What do you miss
and what do you want now?

Click to expand...

I had only the standard 18-55 and I wasnt happy with it at all. I mostly
shot between 18-30. I dont miss anything about it, since I didnt own
any other dslr. In the meantime I'm using a pentax mz-7 (analog), but
it is not something comparisive...

Click to expand...

Please explain your unhappiness with the lens. If it is lack of light indoors and not wanting to shoot wider than 17 mm or longer than 50 mm, my lens suggestion is perfect for you. The Sony A580 is more bang for the buck than a Nikon D7000 or Pentax K-5.

--
coen

Remember http://www.pbase.com/mtf_foto_studies/mtf_faq

Enginsal said:

I had only the standard 18-55 and I wasnt happy with it at all. I mostly shot between 18-30.

Click to expand...

I'm curious about this statement. Does this mean that you're only shooting landscapes and architecture? Or do you have a second longer telephoto that you also use?

If not, you probably owe it to yourself to experiment with a broader range.

My primary interest is landscape and architecture but when I first started out, I found myself always shooting wide and too many of the pictures were unsatisfying as a result. Now that I have a family, I need to include them in some of the landscape shots and 18-30 is certainly not a useful range if you have people in the frame. (Well, 30mm is getting close to useful with a 1.5x crop sensor but I still strongly recommend something longer.

I'm not judging. I'm just curious.

-- kph

coen van dijk wrote:
The Sony A580 is more bang for the buck than a Nikon D7000 or Pentax K-5.

That's a matter of opinion. It's cheaper, but is also missing a lot of features that the other two have. Thus, I wouldn't necessarily say it gives you more "bang for the buck".

mkdafne said:

mkdafne said:

coen van dijk wrote:

The Sony A580 is more bang for the buck than a Nikon D7000 or Pentax K-5.

Click to expand...

That's a matter of opinion. It's cheaper, but is also missing a lot of features
that the other two have. Thus, I wouldn't necessarily say it gives you
more "bang for the buck".

Click to expand...

Some prices in The Netherlands from the same shop:
Sony A580 € 739,-
Nikon D7000 € 1025,-
Canon 60D € 863,-
Canon 7D € 1213,-
Pentax K-5 € 1119,-

Imho, Sony is not a direct competitor for Nikon D7000 and Pentax K-5. So comparing features is not really fair.

Did you take f.e. reliable and consistent metering and color reproduction especially caucasian skin tones, just to name 2 important things, in consideration? If you can live and cope with overexposing in bright and contrasty conditions, D7000 is a wonderful tool...

--
coen

Remember http://www.pbase.com/mtf_foto_studies/mtf_faq

coen van dijk said:

Imho, Sony is not a direct competitor for Nikon D7000 and Pentax K-5. So comparing features is not really fair.

Click to expand...

I'm agreeing that it is not a direct competitor. To suggest that the D7000 is inferior to the a580 makes little sense either.

coen van dijk said:

Did you take f.e. reliable and consistent metering and color reproduction especially caucasian skin tones, just to name 2 important things, in consideration? If you can live and cope with overexposing in bright and contrasty conditions, D7000 is a wonderful tool...

Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, but have you used the camera or do you get your all your facts from the dpreview reviews? Rent one and you'll see why it's better. I'm not sure why you are getting defensive. And I'm not sure what you mean by color reproduction. I've used the camera, and it produces wonderful colors, especially if you tweak the saturation a little. As for the metering, I witnessed no overexposure in bright and contrasty conditions.

However, you were right about the D7000 being a WONDERFUL tool. At 1100 dollars, you get quite a lot. If the original poster is serious about photography, I think that the D7000, and even Nikon as a whole, would serve him better than the a580 and Sony. I'm not saying that the a580 is bad, however, the D7000 has many advantages to it. For serious photography, the better viewfinder alone would make me save up more to buy it over the a580. But hey, that's just me.

Enginsal said:

I mostly shot between 18-30.

Click to expand...

Hi Enginsal,

since you use manly between 18-30, I would recommend that you get two separate lenses. The first would be the older non HSM Sigma 10-20. The wider angle would really open you up to some more interesting landscape shots. For everyday use, I would get a Minolta 24mm f/2.8 prime. This is my standard walk-around lens. Moreover, it doubles as a low light lens. With the Minolta lens, I am able to keep the weight of my camera relatively low, as the lens weights around 200g. I think you would really enjoy this setup. An alternative to the Minolta would be the Sony 35mm f/1.8. It might seem a little more zoomed in, but I think you will really enjoy shooting portraits or even street scenes with the shallow depth of focus that this lens can offer. I hope that helps.

mkdafne said:

coen van dijk said:

Imho, Sony is not a direct competitor for Nikon D7000 and Pentax K-5. So comparing features is not really fair.

Click to expand...

I'm agreeing that it is not a direct competitor. To suggest that the D7000 is inferior to the a580 makes little sense either.

Click to expand...

I'm not suggesting anything and do not have any intention to do so...

mkdafne said:

mkdafne said:

Did you take f.e. reliable and consistent metering and color reproduction especially caucasian skin tones, just to name 2 important things, in consideration? If you can live and cope with overexposing in bright and contrasty conditions, D7000 is a wonderful tool...

Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, but have you used the camera or do you get your all your facts from the dpreview reviews? Rent one and you'll see why it's better. I'm not sure why you are getting defensive. And I'm not sure what you mean by color reproduction. I've used the camera, and it produces wonderful colors, especially if you tweak the saturation a little. As for the metering, I witnessed no overexposure in bright and contrasty conditions.

Click to expand...

Yes, I did test drive one last summer... and you are not reading me. I asked this to take his attention away from feature set alone, allthough I love buttons and switches and prefer them over menu items hidden away somewhere... I'm not getting defensive and if I had to choose a system now, it would not be Sony.

mkdafne said:

However, you were right about the D7000 being a WONDERFUL tool. At 1100 dollars, you get quite a lot. If the original poster is serious about photography, I think that the D7000, and even Nikon as a whole, would serve him better than the a580 and Sony. I'm not saying that the a580 is bad, however, the D7000 has many advantages to it. For serious photography, the better viewfinder alone would make me save up more to buy it over the a580. But hey, that's just me.

Click to expand...

I think it is a matter how far the topic starter did outgrow his Canon 450D with kit lens... and what he wants and needs now. In the end, everything is a compromise...

--
coen

Remember http://www.pbase.com/mtf_foto_studies/mtf_faq

Sorry for my late response,

Your questions made me realize that I didn't really know what was my problem with my canon and the 18 55 lens. After I went through some of my photos I found out these two problems.

First one: sparkling light sources.





Second one (I think this was rather a problem about the sensor.): Death pixels. Make the image below larger. These death pixels have red, green and blue colours on RAW images.

Enginsal said:

First one: sparkling light sources.

Click to expand...

How and with what did you clean your lenses and / or sensor?

Is either one greasy or oily? Or are there little miniscule scratches from wiping with a too rough fabric?

Enginsal said:

Second one (I think this was rather a problem about the sensor.): Death pixels. Make the image below larger. These death pixels have red, green and blue colours on RAW images.

Click to expand...

Right now I'm looking at a small laptop screen and only see noise in the picture what is normal with exposure of 25 seconds... Even stuck pixels are normal then.

--
coen

Remember http://www.pbase.com/mtf_foto_studies/mtf_faq

I think a lot of this advice goes above your present level of photography. From your questions I really don't see that you've outgrown the Canon 450D. Do you still have it? If so you need to work iwth it and find out exactly what it is lacking, then you can go on to determine what cameras would better fill your needs. Is the range of the Canon telephoto satisfactory or what is the issue with the lens? Your photos don't show any real weakness except maybe a need for cleaning.
If you do decide to buy a new system:

The Nikon 7000 is a very advanced camer, not to mention a large camera. Do you really need the complexety and size? It often comes with a pretty nice 18-105 mm lens. Get this lens as a starter, then add to the system as your needs dictate.

The Sony 580 is a great camera, smaller size, less complex but good enough that it will let you develop as a photographer. The kit lens is a pretty decent lens and doesn't add much to the price of the camera. Get it and again, use it and determine what you need that it does't provide.
Evaluating the lens. I see three issues whiich you need to consider:

Lens Quality: If the lens isn't sharp or has too much distortion of CA then you would look for a better quality lens. Both these kit lenses are pretty decent so you would need to be fairly critical to need a lot of improvement.

Focal Length: If you find the 18mm is not wide enough then look for a wider angle lens. 18mm is wide enough for most purposes so how much wider do you need and how much money is it worth to you. If you find the lens to short you need to look into telephotos. Both of these, especially the 18-55 are vairly short lenses which I would see as more of a weakness than the other end.

Lens Speed: If you are shooting indoors a lot without flash both these are limited. Increasing lens speed much is difficult and expensive, especially with zoom lenses. To do so with primes will require you gain experience to know what focal lenth primes you would need to buy. Using these lenses can give you that experience.

For Sony lenses dyxum.com will give you information an ratings of all A mount lenses and is very useful. I don't know of a similar site for Nikon, although it may be available. Good luck with your decision.

--
Dave