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Long tele for wildlife under 700$ - Advice needed

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Photocue

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Hi folks,

Just like stated on the subject, I need to get myself something on the 400 to 500mm range for under 700$.

From what I have seen, something like this from Canon's lineup would be impossible, so I began checking Sigma and Tokina lenses. Due to my reduced budget I am aiming for the 2nd hand market..

On the Sigma side, there seems to be a lot more options..
  • the infamous Bigma 50-500mm
  • the new 150-500mm
and these completely unknown for me, also from Sigma:
  • the 170-500mm f/5-6.3
  • the 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6
  • the 135-400mm f/4.5-5.6 EX DG APO Aspherical
From Tamron:
  • Tamron SP Autofocus 200-500mm f/5-6.3
From Tokina
  • Tokina AT-X 840 80-400mm AFII f/4.5-5.6
Which one of these would you advice me on, knowing that it would be used in sunny conditions, for large animals, and under 700$..
 
I have the sigma 120-400OS, and I think for the price, its a good lens. Photozone has a recent review on it. it can be had used for around 650.

Sigma 15-500OS is another viable choice, optically about the same, a little more reach, but a little bigger and heavier.

the old 80-400 OS not worth it. old os, not as good optically. Dont know a ton about the tamron or tokina one, but I would say in that focal lenght, stabilization is usually a huge plus. here are a couple of shots with the sigma 120-400









--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11731152@N00/
 
1. Kevindar's images are just amazing. I know nothing about you, but I know I couldn't just put that Sigma 120-400 OS lens on my camera and expect images like that. I am not that good. In other words, it took skill and work in addition to the lens for Kevindar to make such terrific images.

2. I also don't know what camera you have, but I'm assuming it is a Canon crop (APS-C) camera given your $700 budget limitation. Therefore you should know that if the lens's maximum aperture is smaller than f/5.6--some of the lenses you're looking at are f/6.3--your camera's AF won't work.

FF
 
The lens is simple and rugged, no zoom no IS and great optics. The best low cost wldlife lens out there and you could probably stay close to $700 for a used one.

--
When you can't focus, nothing else matters
Once you can, everything else does.

http://ben-egbert.smugmug.com/

Ben
 
thank you for your kind words. though I dont think those images are amazing, but technique and patience are given regardless of the lens.

as to your second point, most 6.3 lenses report 5.6 to the camera, (all of them actually to my knowledge) so it should work. However, you are absolutely correct that the focusing system of the non 1 series bodies is only sensitive to f 5.6, which means it may have more trouble locking and tracking at 6.3, and beyond that, a lot more trouble. Note that this is independent from amount of available light, though that has an effect also. It has to do with splitting of the beam depending on the fstop as it hits the focus points, and their ability to focus.
Flying Fish said:
1. Kevindar's images are just amazing. I know nothing about you, but I know I couldn't just put that Sigma 120-400 OS lens on my camera and expect images like that. I am not that good. In other words, it took skill and work in addition to the lens for Kevindar to make such terrific images.

2. I also don't know what camera you have, but I'm assuming it is a Canon crop (APS-C) camera given your $700 budget limitation. Therefore you should know that if the lens's maximum aperture is smaller than f/5.6--some of the lenses you're looking at are f/6.3--your camera's AF won't work.

FF
Click to expand...
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11731152@N00/
 
1. I absolutely agree! If one could just pay for the skill also ;)

2. I shoot an old faithfull 20D. I couldn't understand your point, sorry. You mean, for instance, I get a tele-zoom with constant f/4, the AF won't work with my APS-C DSLR? Why?
Flying Fish said:
1. Kevindar's images are just amazing. I know nothing about you, but I know I couldn't just put that Sigma 120-400 OS lens on my camera and expect images like that. I am not that good. In other words, it took skill and work in addition to the lens for Kevindar to make such terrific images.

2. I also don't know what camera you have, but I'm assuming it is a Canon crop (APS-C) camera given your $700 budget limitation. Therefore you should know that if the lens's maximum aperture is smaller than f/5.6--some of the lenses you're looking at are f/6.3--your camera's AF won't work.

FF
Click to expand...
 
I found a nice used Tokina 400mm f5.6 for $150. It is a pretty nice lens for the price, it is light and easy to carry as well.

 
+1
Ben_Egbert said:
The lens is simple and rugged, no zoom no IS and great optics. The best low cost wldlife lens out there and you could probably stay close to $700 for a used one.
Click to expand...
AF is very fast. It's tack sharp wide open. It's a great value. If you can find one, get it.

I was out shooting the Eagles last week with it...







R2

ps. Nice work with the Sigma Kev'

--
*
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.

http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries
 
Rui Vidal said:
2. I shoot an old faithfull 20D. I couldn't understand your point, sorry. You mean, for instance, I get a tele-zoom with constant f/4, the AF won't work with my APS-C DSLR? Why?
Click to expand...
No, the term "smaller aperture" is meant in a physical sense, not a numeric one. Apart from the 1D/1Ds series bodies (which will AF up to f8), Canon DSLRs will only AF with a lens that's reporting a maximum aperture or f5.6 or lower, so f4, f2.8 etc. are fine. However, if the lens reports a higher aperture value (i.e. f8) then the body will not AF. This is why all EF / EF-S lenses have maximum apertures f5.6 or lower.

Adding a Teleconverter reduces the effective aperture, and the Canon TCs adjust the aperture reported to the camera accordingly. So if you add a Canon 1.4x TC to a lens with a maximum aperture of f5.6, it will report f8 to the body and you'll lose AF.

Some third party TCs (such as Tamron) don't adjust the reported aperture, and so can be used with f5.6 lenses and retain AF (although it will probably not perfrom very well).

--
Check out my galleries (lots of macros) at :
http://www.pbase.com/cjed
 
Rui Vidal said:
Just to check, you're talking about the Canon prime 400m 5.6, right?
Click to expand...
I am, I sold mine a couple years ago (I have the 500f4). I think it went for $775. My son in law recently bought a used one for under $800. I think they would last forever and are super sharp. The only thing they lack is speed (f4 would be better) and reach, 400 is a bit short.

I used mine on a 20d with a 1.4x and taped pins to fool the AF. It actually did a good job wth AF and I got many good images with it.
Photocue said:
Ben_Egbert said:
The lens is simple and rugged, no zoom no IS and great optics. The best low cost wldlife lens out there and you could probably stay close to $700 for a used one.

--
When you can't focus, nothing else matters
Once you can, everything else does.

http://ben-egbert.smugmug.com/

Ben
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
When you can't focus, nothing else matters
Once you can, everything else does.

http://ben-egbert.smugmug.com/

Ben
 
Remember that the number is a denominator. It's not f4, it's f/4, or f (focal length) divided by 4.

So, just as 1/4 is bigger than 1/8, f/4 is bigger than f/8.

But you already got the answer you needed.

FF
 
I also love this lens. Didn't realize you could get a used one for less than $800, though. No IS, and relatively slow (f/5.6), it is superb optically, very fast AF, light, and a joy to use. I think it is the least-expensive way--even at full retail--to get superb IQ at 400 mm.

FF



 
I've seen enough of your (Kevindar's) images posted here to recognize that you have great technique and patience. As a result, I pay attention to what you say here as well.

:)

FF
 
Rui Vidal said:
Hi folks,

Just like stated on the subject, I need to get myself something on the 400 to 500mm range for under 700$.

From what I have seen, something like this from Canon's lineup would be impossible, so I began checking Sigma and Tokina lenses. Due to my reduced budget I am aiming for the 2nd hand market..

On the Sigma side, there seems to be a lot more options..
  • the infamous Bigma 50-500mm
  • the new 150-500mm
and these completely unknown for me, also from Sigma:
  • the 170-500mm f/5-6.3
  • the 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6
  • the 135-400mm f/4.5-5.6 EX DG APO Aspherical
From Tamron:
  • Tamron SP Autofocus 200-500mm f/5-6.3
From Tokina
  • Tokina AT-X 840 80-400mm AFII f/4.5-5.6
Which one of these would you advice me on, knowing that it would be used in sunny conditions, for large animals, and under 700$..
Click to expand...
I wonder how many of us are going through the same dilemma with the same choices.... I know I am and the above list matches mine. At the moment I'm coming down on the tamron 200-500 side, it doesn't seem very popular but it does get a reasonable review at photozone. The other option that keeps coming back is the canon 200L F2.8 along with a canon 2x converter, this comes in very close to the tamron's price. I know that the image quality will not be upto the canon 400 f5.6 or 100-400 at 400 but from the-digital-picture website reviews it does look as though the quality bests the sigma's and tokina's they've tested (they haven't tested the tamron). The other unknown to me is whether the af speed with the 2x converter would be slower than the tamron or sigmas and whether any bf/ff will show up on my 30D which doesn't have any mf adjustment (and then if Canon could sort it out along with the 2x converter). Good luck and I'm watching this thread with particular interest.

--
Walt

http://picasaweb.google.com/waltdall
 
cjed said:
Adding a Teleconverter reduces the effective aperture, and the Canon TCs adjust the aperture reported to the camera accordingly. So if you add a Canon 1.4x TC to a lens with a maximum aperture of f5.6, it will report f8 to the body and you'll lose AF.

Some third party TCs (such as Tamron) don't adjust the reported aperture, and so can be used with f5.6 lenses and retain AF (although it will probably not perfrom very well).

--
Click to expand...
Thank you for the explanation.

Since I am aiming for reach, a teleconverter was also on my mind, but obviously I have a little more to learn about it.

So, two ways to avoid losing AF would be using a third party teleconverter, or adding it to a contast f/2.8 lens, for example, am I right?

But on the other hand, why would it no perform so well with a third party teleconverter?
 
Nice, another way to get AF working with a teleconverter, thanks.

I've been looking for that lens and it hasn't been easy to get one near my budget; anyway one more alternative in the basket, thank you.
Ben_Egbert said:
I am, I sold mine a couple years ago (I have the 500f4). I think it went for $775. My son in law recently bought a used one for under $800. I think they would last forever and are super sharp. The only thing they lack is speed (f4 would be better) and reach, 400 is a bit short.

I used mine on a 20d with a 1.4x and taped pins to fool the AF. It actually did a good job wth AF and I got many good images with it.
Click to expand...
 
but if you can find a tokina 400mm f5.6 apo ATX that's a great lens that used sells for around $300.

I use to have one and it was a great lens for the price!
 
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