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Need advice: Ad agency wants to use my photo...

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gail

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Hi, I posted this in the Open Talk Forum but someone suggested I seek responses in the Pro forum. I'd sincerely appreciate any feedback.

An advertising agency wants permission to use one of my photos for their one of their clients, for free. It's a photo of a sunset. I am not a pro photographer so not sure how to handle this though my gut feeling is to say No Thank you!

I have not yet given permission because:

1- I have not been informed if I'll be given a photo credit

2- I have no idea about the subject of the advertising; whether it will be used to advertise baby diapers or porno.

3- They want unlimited use of my photo for a year, and haven't offered me a dime.

Here's the information they have provided thus far:
  • They cannot disclose which client due to some privacy issues.
  • They want to use photo through the entire duration of the campaign; approximately one year. Some of the campaign components they would be using the photo for might include: online, print, and in store advertisements.
What would you do?

btw, the ad company is on linkedin, facebook and twitter; was founded in the late '80s. Their website lists some very well-known large companies as clients.
--
gail ~ http://www.pbase.com/gailb

My Sony NEX-3 blog: http://www.digicamhelp.com/camera-logs/sony-nex-3/sony-nex-3//
 
A big resounding NO to giving it to them for free.

They plan on running a year long ad campaign with your image, this is going to generate their client money. They're getting paid, the client will be getting paid and I can almost guarantee there was a line for photography included the budget. You deserve to be compensated for the use (and by the way photo credit is never compensation).

They're trying to abuse the fact that you're not a pro - these things are usually priced by: distribution (local, regional, national), media - print, billboard, online, etc, and length of use. The more any of those values go up the more they should be paying - they know this.

Decide on an amount you think is reasonable and tell them you want it if they're going to use your image. They might decide to move on find some other person they can sucker into giving away their stuff, so you'll lose out on being in an ad but you'll at least know you weren't screwed over for it.
 
I'm surprised they won't tell you the client or the usage. I'm guessing they were looking through some stock photos and are hoping you'll give them your work for less money than what else is out there. On the other hand, there are some pretty cheap, good sunset stock shots available, so there may be something particularly compelling of your specific shot -- if so, good for you and recognize that you have a bit of a bargaining chip there.

I would ask them if they have a budget and see if you can fall inside that number. When negotiating, reaffirm that "all media" means they are getting a good deal as many shots are sold for single use only. Ensure that your contract includes specific language of a one-year usage and that usage beyond one year would require additional fees to be negotiated then. I would also insist they tell you at least the category the client is in (e.g., technology, packaged goods, etc.), or at least tell you what categories it is not in. It's reasonable to not want your shot used to promote, say, cigarettes or adult entertainment.

As far as getting photo credit, I would not expect that and not sweat it as it is not typically done for commercial purposes.
 
NJOceanView said:
I'm surprised they won't tell you the client or the usage. I'm guessing they were looking through some stock photos and are hoping you'll give them your work for less money than what else is out there. On the other hand, there are some pretty cheap, good sunset stock shots available, so there may be something particularly compelling of your specific shot -- if so, good for you and recognize that you have a bit of a bargaining chip there.
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Thank you. It isn't a bad shot.

I want to do what's right. I'm not a pro, far from it. But my dad was. If they try to take advantage of someone like me, they'll try to mess with pros too. As photographers, I think we're all in this together.

A national (U.S), non-profit organization, one I've always respected, basically wanted the same type of unlimited use for one of my photos too; no credit, no-nothing. While in one way it would have been a honor to say "Hey, look who's using my photo," I ultimately...rightly or wrongly...said no.

Other organizations have asked to use some of my photos without pay, and I've given permission. But at least they gave me a photo credit.

--
gail ~ http://www.pbase.com/gailb

My Sony NEX-3 blog: http://www.digicamhelp.com/camera-logs/sony-nex-3/sony-nex-3//
 
KSG said:
(and by the way photo credit is never compensation).
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Hmmm, that's an interesting thought.
KSG said:
Decide on an amount you think is reasonable
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I wouldn't have the foggiest notion about how to price a photo. Know little to nothing about licensing, contracts.

I emailed and asked about discussion compensation. My guess is that I won't be hearing from them again.

--
gail ~ http://www.pbase.com/gailb

My Sony NEX-3 blog: http://www.digicamhelp.com/camera-logs/sony-nex-3/sony-nex-3//
 
Hey Dude!! get a life," there ain't no such thing as a free lunch" You said at least twice you're not a "pro" well if you have any ideas of becoming one, then start acting and dealing like one. CHARGE THEM.
--
ABA DABA
 
ABA DABA said:
Hey Dude!! get a life," there ain't no such thing as a free lunch" You said at least twice you're not a "pro" well if you have any ideas of becoming one, then start acting and dealing like one. CHARGE THEM.
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Hey Dude yourself. Give me a break. I'm just asking questions. I have no intentions of becoming a pro. Just looking for insights from pros about the current situation. Are you one?

Anyway, I'm glad you're a photographer and, hopefully, not a teacher!

--
gail ~ http://www.pbase.com/gailb

My Sony NEX-3 blog: http://www.digicamhelp.com/camera-logs/sony-nex-3/sony-nex-3//
 
sorry, my previous post wasn't helpful, but I think by now you have figured out who the client will be... I've never had any problems getting this info, even if it involved signing a NDA on my end. even if you don't know the client, you can still ask for basic parameters: what industry will it be, will it be used on websites/banners/emails, in print (ads, pamphlets, posters, billboards), tv spots, webisodes etc for one year, US wide, since that is already established.

without any specifics, you can go to gettyimages.com, find a comparable rights-managed image, and price it out. I would take that number to the as a negotiation base, and find another number in your head which would be the lowest possible price you would be willing to rent this image out for. your goal is to sell the image for more than that, but it will be probably less than what getty suggests, since all parties unfortunately know that you are not a pro yet, and will try to take advantage.

if they continue to try to sweet-talk you, walk away... giving credit is not enough, but expect to not get credit next to the image if the deal goes through (they might give you credit in the credits section of whatever it is they will produce). or show them the site http://shouldiworkforfree.com

good luck

--
Joergen Geerds
http://luminous-newyork.com
http://joergengeerds.com
http://newyorkpanorama.com
 
Are you sure you're talking to someone from that agency?

Because I've never heard of such a weird deal before.

I haven't seen any mention about how they intend to use the shot. Is it the full background? Is it a picture on the wall of the set? A screen on a cellphone, sitting on a desk, in a room down the hall......?

Something, actually many things, don't sound right.

First clue: THEY WANT IT FOR FREE. If this is a real deal then they've got a budget for your shot.

Second: like you said they aren't telling you what it's going to be used for. What if it's for "Larry's Love Lube"? Still want that photo credit?

Third: they won't tell you who the client is. Any legitimate ad agency is not going to bother with "asking" to use an image for free. Time is money, period. A real art director is going to say, "I need 50 sunset images for the client to choose from. Go to X, Y & Z stock photography agencies and get 100 from each. I'll make the final picks for the client to choose from and I need it in an hour."

Can you imagine an art director going back to a client and explaining that the shot he wanted wasn't available because they couldn't get it for free?

It's a sunset.

It might be the finest example of sunset photography ever, but chances are there's another one that would work just as well.

What makes this one so special?

How did they find you?

Look, the list could go on for a long time. It's your image. In the end you're going to do what you want with it.

Give it away, play hardball for 5-figures, get a free lunch out of them whatever makes you happy.

Whatever you do go into this knowing that it's a strange deal from the beginning.

Good luck. Hope this works out well for you.

Bill F

https://picasaweb.google.com/faulknerstudios
 
They are very likely building their own in-house inventory of stock images for which they have pre-approved use rights. Simply tell them to contact you again if and when they can specify what exactly the photo will be used for, so that at such time you can discus mutually agreeable terms and leave it at that.

MaxTux
 
And after I stopped laughing, I would ask if they would load up a truck with their Clients merchandise and deliver to my studio in exchange for a one year unlimited use license. Believe me, the Ad Agency and their staff are not comping their work to research and contact photographers. I would ask for specific on the end user, desired use and realistic budget then send them an estimate to sign off on. Otherwise, they are wasting your time.
--
http://www.tcphoto.org
http://web.mac.com/tcphoto1/Fashion/Fashion.html
 
Thank you, Gail, for bringing this to our attention.

I hate to tell you this, guys, but this is just another example of how digital technology is killing professional photography as we know it.

Twice during the past six months, I have been contacted by "ad exectives" wanting to use my photos for their "direct mail campagin. I reaserached both before answering, and both were multi-billion-dollar companies.

Along with the initial request to use my images was attached a contract, which included everyting from counter displays to billboards--forever.

In each case, when I asked them how much they paid, they never emailed me again and went fishing elsewhere--and they'll find someone gullible enough. Gail was smart enough, and kind enough, to post something about it here.

The word is out: images aren't worth a dime--even to multi-billion-dollar companies.
--

In the end, the only things that matter are the people we help and the people we hurt. http://pa.photoshelter.com/user/ronkruger
 
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