Olympus Customer Service - E-PL2 red dots

I looked at your "red dot" images on your website. One thing that struck me were your "snow" images are very similar to mine in the fact that there are so many unavoidable red dots shots.

When I spoke to the Olympus person, he asked me if there was also snow on the ground - he said the brightness/glare of the snow could also be a possible cause of the red dots. So between the glare of the sun and the glare of the snow, it made it almost impossible to get a shot without the dots. I found it interesting that you seemed to have a similar situation as mine - and that Olympus brought up the snow (he said he brought it up because almost the whole country had snow which makes sense).

Any further thoughts? I'm assuming you're keeping the E-PL2.

Maria

thorkilry said:

Andy Westlake..
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1041&message=37711617
--

Click to expand...

Thanks! I did check that out. I can understand why he did not include the topic in the review. I don't think he had an obligation to seek out the "sun in the frame" subjects as part of the review.

This is simply my personal opinion.

Maria

Marla said:

I looked at your "red dot" images on your website. One thing that struck me were your "snow" images are very similar to mine in the fact that there are so many unavoidable red dots shots.

When I spoke to the Olympus person, he asked me if there was also snow on the ground - he said the brightness/glare of the snow could also be a possible cause of the red dots. So between the glare of the sun and the glare of the snow, it made it almost impossible to get a shot without the dots. I found it interesting that you seemed to have a similar situation as mine - and that Olympus brought up the snow (he said he brought it up because almost the whole country had snow which makes sense).

Any further thoughts? I'm assuming you're keeping the E-PL2.

Click to expand...

I'm hedging a little after yesterday afternoon, but I'll probably keep it since it's a secondary body. Only one of those examples was intolerable, and that was an extreme scene to capture anyway. Just like knowing a lens' pros and cons. . . with the DSLR I liked a particular WA lens, but I couldn't use that often for sunsets/sunrises, as it flared like the dickens. I'd resort to a narrower FL and stitch for the wider FOV if I didn't have an alternative WA with me.

I can get a lot of use from the EPL2 otherwise, and can cope with the phenomenon to a reasonable degree. I can't recommend it with the same general confidence I can with the EP2 I've been using, or the Panasonics (via the shared experiences here).

--
...Bob, NYC

'Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't.' - Little Big Man

http://www.bobtullis.com

Marla said:

thorkilry said:

Andy Westlake..
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1041&message=37711617
--

Click to expand...

Thanks! I did check that out. I can understand why he did not include the topic in the review. I don't think he had an obligation to seek out the "sun in the frame" subjects as part of the review.

This is simply my personal opinion.

Maria

Click to expand...

I think the problem isn't in framing the sun.

I saw shots of the sun and of the street lamps with red dots. But I also saw similar shots without red dots.
So the problem is: why some EPL2s do red dots and some EPL2s don't?

Maybe a faulty first production line?

perez69 said:

Marla said:

thorkilry said:

Andy Westlake..
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1041&message=37711617
--

Click to expand...

Thanks! I did check that out. I can understand why he did not include the topic in the review. I don't think he had an obligation to seek out the "sun in the frame" subjects as part of the review.

This is simply my personal opinion.

Maria

Click to expand...

I think the problem isn't in framing the sun.

I saw shots of the sun and of the street lamps with red dots. But I also saw similar shots without red dots.
So the problem is: why some EPL2s do red dots and some EPL2s don't?

Maybe a faulty first production line?

Click to expand...

This is what I've been "hoping" all along to be honest. Actually I'm exchanging my E-PL2 for a newer shipment copy - whether or not that makes a difference. I really had a lot of shots with the red dots - and I didn't have to try to get them!

Maria
--

I agree that he didn't need to include the issue in his review.

However, I thought his explanation of why he didn't was condescending. He chose to completely ignore the possibility that the E-PL2 could be more prone to this problem than other cameras and then dismissed concerns about the problem by commenting that The internet is a funny place at times.

perez69 said:

I think the problem isn't in framing the sun.

I saw shots of the sun and of the street lamps with red dots. But I also saw similar shots without red dots.
So the problem is: why some EPL2s do red dots and some EPL2s don't?

Click to expand...

There's a lot more variables than that:

• What lenses were being used
• What focal lengths were being used
• What apertures were being used
• What point size the light sources were in the frame
• The angle the light sources were at in the frame
• Exposure - over, good, under

I haven't seen any evidence to indicate this is an issue that's likely to be unique to some bodies. It seems like we're just seeing variability in the above factors leading to variability of the issue being noticeable or not.

--
Sam Bennett - http://www.swiftbennett.com

Sam Bennett said:

perez69 said:

I think the problem isn't in framing the sun.

I saw shots of the sun and of the street lamps with red dots. But I also saw similar shots without red dots.
So the problem is: why some EPL2s do red dots and some EPL2s don't?

Click to expand...

There's a lot more variables than that:

• What lenses were being used
• What focal lengths were being used
• What apertures were being used
• What point size the light sources were in the frame
• The angle the light sources were at in the frame
• Exposure - over, good, under

I haven't seen any evidence to indicate this is an issue that's likely to be unique to some bodies. It seems like we're just seeing variability in the above factors leading to variability of the issue being noticeable or not.

Click to expand...

Makes sense. One many not often point it towards the conditions that cause it, but that it can intrude when one does see something dramatic and compelling. . . it is rather inexcusable. Pity, 'cause otherwise I've been quite enamored with it.

--
...Bob, NYC

'Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't.' - Little Big Man

http://www.bobtullis.com

I saw photos by Kirk Turk and read his articles.
He tried to reproduce the problem but without luck.
I think (and repeat I think) he tried seriously.
But... nothing! No one red dot in full sun or night shots.

It's difficult to believe that it's so easy to have red dots if you don't want them and is difficult (if not impossible) to have them if you want them.

I think that there something else but only Oly knows the truth.

Nope, sorry, Kirk definitely DID get the red dots. He updated his review.

http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.com/2011/01/olympus-epl2-final-installment-kirks.html

perez69 said:

I saw photos by Kirk Turk and read his articles.
He tried to reproduce the problem but without luck.
I think (and repeat I think) he tried seriously.
But... nothing! No one red dot in full sun or night shots.

It's difficult to believe that it's so easy to have red dots if you don't want them and is difficult (if not impossible) to have them if you want them.

I think that there something else but only Oly knows the truth.

Click to expand...

That seems impossible to me. I took mine out of the box yesterday, pointed it at the sun and got this....

and this....

It's really a shame because I love the "Dramatic Tone" filter...

perez69 said:

I saw photos by Kirk Turk and read his articles.
He tried to reproduce the problem but without luck.
I think (and repeat I think) he tried seriously.
But... nothing! No one red dot in full sun or night shots.

It's difficult to believe that it's so easy to have red dots if you don't want them and is difficult (if not impossible) to have them if you want them.

I think that there something else but only Oly knows the truth.

Click to expand...

http://www.bobtullis.com/Main/EPL2-DotGrid/

--
...Bob, NYC

'Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't.' - Little Big Man

http://www.bobtullis.com

Great approach to the problem.
It seems a exposure-related problem. Well-exposed shots don't have red dots.
Maybe firmware fixable?

Anyway, I like these kind of shots, sunset and night shots. So I must search for another camera.

I'm sad because EPL2 has all what I'm looking for. Hoping that EP3 comes out quickly and without red dots problem.

perez69 said:

Great approach to the problem.
It seems a exposure-related problem. Well-exposed shots don't have red dots.
Maybe firmware fixable?

Anyway, I like these kind of shots, sunset and night shots. So I must search for another camera.

I'm sad because EPL2 has all what I'm looking for. Hoping that EP3 comes out quickly and without red dots problem.

Click to expand...

I've been like a metronome on how significant this is for what I tend to face. Basically, when seeking a broad DOF while shooting into a bright source of light one could anticipate it affecting an image. Knowing when and how, one may be able to avoid the potential if one has a habit of shooting in this manner.

But I'd wager the majority of buyers would be less prone to challenging the camera in this manner. Devoted night shooters and sunset/sunrise studies using a tripod and aperture settings that skirt diffraction would be another story (hand held night shots, even at ISO 3200, leave one in the wide open aperture range, where this doesn't occur).

I've come to decide that my apprehensions are a bit overblown. It's been too cold yet to do any determined tripod studies at night, so I'm at a loss in that area at the moment, but one way or another I'll find satisfaction (even if that turns out to be, for a particular type of study, to use a different camera). Outside of this issue the camera is a joy to handle, and is quite satisfying. I just find it hard to recommend the camera whole heartedly, among the broad range of photographer levels that are interested in the E-PL2.

--
...Bob, NYC

'Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't.' - Little Big Man

http://www.bobtullis.com