Olympus Customer Service - E-PL2 red dots

I posted the following information within another thread, but thought I'd post it here for anyone who is concerned about the E-PL2 red dots. My experience with Olympus customer service was excellent, even though I'm disappointed as I will be returning my camera.

Yesterday afternoon I took my new E-PL2 out for the first time. It was about 4:00 p.m. and I was shooting mostly reflections and shadows which were really awesome. There was still quite a bit of snow - and the sun was getting low, but not yet setting. I did try a couple of shots into the sun, but most of what I shot were of the reflections and shadows on the buildings, snow, etc.

Unfortunately, I got more than my share of red dots, and not just on the ones shot into the sun. I really thought this would NOT be a problem for me, as I don't normally shoot into the sun. So what's a few red spots? However, these were shots that I would do normally - on a beautiful afternoon with a blue sky, etc. I couldn't believe how many of my images were filled with large red dots.

Today I called Olympus inquiring about the red dots. I was treated well by customer service. The person I spoke to said he was not aware of the situation so he checked with his supervisor.

Information I was given: Olympus has just recently become aware of the red dot situation and is presently looking into it. They do not yet know if it is an issue/problem with the E-PL2.

I told him that I am concerned because I would like to keep it, BUT I do not want to find out 2 months from now that I have to return it to Olympus - or send it in for repair along with all the people who purchase it in the meantime, and wait a month or 2 to get it back.

He said he understood and assured me that they are looking into the situation.

Well, unfortunately I am returning it. I am sad, actually, because it is really a nice camera, but to me this is a sign that there is a concern even with Olympus. I hope it is resolved soon.

In the meantime, I would encourage other people who have this camera whether or not it is a problem to you to call or email Olympus just to let them know people are concerned. Two out of three people I spoke with in customer service never heard of the red dots. Maybe if they get enough emails/calls they will put a rush on looking into it.

Anyone think I'm making a mistake by returning it too soon? I only have 7 more days within the return policy to do so.

Thanks for any input.

Maria

I think the key to this is in your statement that the red dots appeared when you were taking shots that you would normally take.....Unfortunately, I think you are right to return it because of this.

If Oly can come up with a fix for this, you can repurchase the camera and not have to worry about it, but in the meantime, since it will affect your photos, the thing to do is to bring it back.

If you do like the images it produces otherwise, maybe you should try the E-PL1? It is a bit less physically pleasing to handle, but IQ is great and it has no history of the red dot problem....and you can get a great deal on them now.

Good luck!
-Janet

jalywol said:

I think the key to this is in your statement that the red dots appeared when you were taking shots that you would normally take.....Unfortunately, I think you are right to return it because of this.

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Yes, but the shots were not directly into the sun. And Olympus is looking into it because there is a concern. They told me that maybe a buying an ND filter would help. So, my concern goes further than shooting into the sun.

jalywol said:

If Oly can come up with a fix for this, you can repurchase the camera and not have to worry about it, but in the meantime, since it will affect your photos, the thing to do is to bring it back.

If you do like the images it produces otherwise, maybe you should try the E-PL1? It is a bit less physically pleasing to handle, but IQ is great and it has no history of the red dot problem....and you can get a great deal on them now.

Click to expand...

I sold my E-PL1 - but haven't closed the deal yet. I love the features on the E-PL2 and like it better than my E-PL1. I would like to keep it to be honest, but I only have a few more days to make the decision, and it is a hard decision for me because this is such a great camera. I was just surprised when I got so many red spots on so many images. Plus a friend is waiting anxiously for my E-PL1. This is really a hard decision and a big disappointment for me personally.

Believe me, Janet, I would love to keep this camera. And maybe I will - still!
Oly's concern is concerning me to be honest.

Maria

Kodak used to tell us to keep the sun over our shoulder, still good advice for most situations. Apparently, the problem is that M-4/3 manufacturers are more concerned about video, and so do nothing to lessen the noise and artifacts from this type of sensor. My Nikon P7000 with a smaller CCD sensor will beat my G2 every time.

Skipper494 said:

Kodak used to tell us to keep the sun over our shoulder, still good advice for most situations. Apparently, the problem is that M-4/3 manufacturers are more concerned about video, and so do nothing to lessen the noise and artifacts from this type of sensor. My Nikon P7000 with a smaller CCD sensor will beat my G2 every time.

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Keeping the sun over our shoulder is good wisdom! I agree.

The Olympus person also told me that the snow on the ground could be a reason I was getting the red dots. He suggested getting an ND filter to use in these situations.

Actually I'm very happy with the E-PL2 with the exception of the red dots. I'm still wondering if I'm making the right decision by returning it. I'm really torn because the shots without the dots are really awesome!

Maria

Can you please post some pictures so we can see what you are dealing with?

Skipper494 said:

Apparently, the problem is that M-4/3 manufacturers are more concerned about video, and so do nothing to lessen the noise and artifacts from this type of sensor.

Click to expand...

That may be true, but the problem the OP is talking about has nothing to do with that. It is a problem that has occurred in a variety of sensor technologies and cameras from different manufacturers over the years. A number of Sigma cameras had the issue awhile back, people have seen it in other cameras as well. For whatever reason it seems either more people are seeing it more frequently with this camera compared to the previous Olympus m43 cameras.
--
Ken W

Rebel XT, XTi, Pany G1, LX3, FZ28, Fuji F30, and a lot of 35mm and 4x5 sitting in the closet...

kenw said:

Skipper494 said:

Apparently, the problem is that M-4/3 manufacturers are more concerned about video, and so do nothing to lessen the noise and artifacts from this type of sensor.

Click to expand...

That may be true, but the problem the OP is talking about has nothing to do with that. It is a problem that has occurred in a variety of sensor technologies and cameras from different manufacturers over the years. A number of Sigma cameras had the issue awhile back, people have seen it in other cameras as well. For whatever reason it seems either more people are seeing it more frequently with this camera compared to the previous Olympus m43 cameras.
--
Ken W

Rebel XT, XTi, Pany G1, LX3, FZ28, Fuji F30, and a lot of 35mm and 4x5 sitting in the closet...

Click to expand...

Ken,

When I read things like this, I'm really struggling with the decision to return the camera - or not. I really like the E-PL2. If it is just what you mention above - and the problem isn't any more than what has evolved with other cameras in the past, I would consider keeping it. I wish I had purchased it from Amazon where I had 30 days to consider the pros and cons - and get more info. I think the fact that Olympus is looking into it - and actually saying they don't know if it is a problem yet scared me into deciding to return it.

Well, I have a few more days.

Maria

tamato said:

Can you please post some pictures so we can see what you are dealing with?

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I'm having a problem getting my images uploaded. I have a new computer and new software and am trying to figure it all out. My time is limited due to a busy schedule and I haven't had time to work with it all.

I hope to get to it later tonight or tomorrow.

Maria

Marla said:

I think the fact that Olympus is looking into it - and actually saying they don't know if it is a problem yet scared me into deciding to return it.

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Sorry I can't give you any good advice, but the quoted part strikes me as a bit illogical. I would have thought that Olympus looking into it (if true) is a good sign. Would you prefer them telling you right away that there is no problem whatsoever?

Red dots are reality, so the only issue here is whether they deny it or acknowledge and try to fix. It appears that they are talking the second route. I am afraid though, that engineers are long aware of the issue, it's been reported in too many places. So the response you've got just shows that Olympus has good CS representatives, nothing else.

fermy said:

Marla said:

I think the fact that Olympus is looking into it - and actually saying they don't know if it is a problem yet scared me into deciding to return it.

Click to expand...

Sorry I can't give you any good advice, but the quoted part strikes me as a bit illogical. I would have thought that Olympus looking into it (if true) is a good sign. Would you prefer them telling you right away that there is no problem whatsoever?

Click to expand...

Yes, I understand what you're saying. However, initially I thought it was nothing - just something that has happened for many years with many cameras. When Olympus told me they don't know yet if it is a problem with this specific camera, it sounded a bit more serious to me than what has been going on for years with many cameras. Maybe this doesn't make sense, but it was my initial reaction. Then again, maybe I worry too much.

fermy said:

Red dots are reality, so the only issue here is whether they deny it or acknowledge and try to fix. It appears that they are talking the second route. I am afraid though, that engineers are long aware of the issue, it's been reported in too many places. So the response you've got just shows that Olympus has good CS representatives, nothing else.

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I agree with you that they do have good reps - I said that throughout my first post - I was very impressed with their honesty and their friendly customer service.

Thanks for your input.

Maria
--

Return it. Olympus will solve this problem in a few months. You can buy a PL2s whatever its called then. No reason to keep a flawed,defective product.

The red dot problem is known over a month ago. Olympus choose to continue selling it. Shame.

You have folks like Kirk Tuck who can't reproduce it except under circumstances that can make it occur with any camera.

Conversely, you do have people who are getting the issue outside of the narrow conditions that are needed to reproduce the effect with any camera, so it's not as if people are crying wolf, either.

To me, that sounds like a manufacturing issue rather than a design one; as in, there may be a manufacturing defect, one that affects a percentage of cameras. The size of that percentage would determine the decision to recall or extend warranty for corrections.

Personally, I haven't seen this issue in my copy. That's not to say I may later, but I just haven't.

I'm curious to see Marla's pics as she's seeing them in what sounds like a larger variety of scenes other than pointing it really bright sources of light to get flare.

here's another thread discussing the issue, for everybody reference

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1041&message=37465338

and also thz Mr Tuck for his great and honest review, he reminded us for the conditions triggering the issue
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1041&thread=37535158

--
http://ch.fotogallery.hk/album_v2.php?aid=8818&pid=

Maria,

My advice is to return your camera. It seems clear that this problem is more pronounced in the E-PL2 than in most other cameras. While I'm sure it is disappointing there are many other great cameras, or you can wait and see if the problem is fixed in the E-PL2. If you keep your camera, I think you will worry about every photo you take in conditions similar to those that have given you red dots.

If this is your main squeeze of a camera, then you should return it. And relate that to Olympus as well.

I'm going to call to complain, but I can live with it (not telling Oly that), being it's a secondary camera and I like it so, otherwise. The condition isn't so bad in these mono JPGs OOC, but knowing what that exhibits in color says a lot, if you look carefully:









I expect flare, but those patterns are there.

--
...Bob, NYC

'Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't.' - Little Big Man

http://www.bobtullis.com

tamato said:

Can you please post some pictures so we can see what you are dealing with?

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Here are a few shots I managed to upload. The first two are shot directly into the sun. The 3rd - directly into sun - NO red dots....

The next two images I focused to the left or right - not directly into the sun.

My question is - when I'm focusing on a subject to the right or left of the sun when it is in the sky - is this still considered shooting directly into the sun since it is close by? If so, then I'm wrong in my assessment - and I should expect this when the sun is not in back of me???

One last question. According to some, this phenomonem occurs regardless of what camera you're using? I'm still confused here a bit.

I am just trying to get some clarification/truth because I really like this camera, so I am not defending my images - nor bashing Olympus E-PL2 - just trying to work it all out in my head so I can make an objective decision. Yes, I'm still undecided.

Thanks for any comments.
Maria







focusing on the tree - to the left



focusing on tree to right

Marla said:

tamato said:

Can you please post some pictures so we can see what you are dealing with?

Click to expand...

Here are a few shots I managed to upload. The first two are shot directly into the sun. The 3rd - directly into sun - NO red dots....

The next two images I focused to the left or right - not directly into the sun.

My question is - when I'm focusing on a subject to the right or left of the sun when it is in the sky - is this still considered shooting directly into the sun since it is close by? If so, then I'm wrong in my assessment - and I should expect this when the sun is not in back of me???

One last question. According to some, this phenomonem occurs regardless of what camera you're using? I'm still confused here a bit.

I am just trying to get some clarification/truth because I really like this camera, so I am not defending my images - nor bashing Olympus E-PL2 - just trying to work it all out in my head so I can make an objective decision. Yes, I'm still undecided.

Thanks for any comments.
Maria

Click to expand...

I would consider any image where the sun is in frame to have been taken "into the sun", even if you are not centered on it. Others may have a different take on it, but I would say that all of the photos you posted would be considered as having been taken into the sun.

That being said, if you take this sort of photo with regularity, this may not be the best camera for your uses.

This effect has occurred on other cameras in the past, but definitely not all of them. You will, however, get plain, ordinary lens flare (minus red dots) when taking photos like these on ANY camera. Some lenses are more or less prone to that too, and you can use a lens hood to help reduce that also. (I have taken a number of photos with the sun in frame with my E-PL1, and have definitely gotten the expected amount of lens flare, but have not had any red dots appear in my images along with it.)

My personal suggestion would be to try another M43 camera (either one of the Panasonics or the E-PL1) and see if it works better for you.

-Janet

Marla said:

When I read things like this, I'm really struggling with the decision to return the camera - or not. I really like the E-PL2. If it is just what you mention above - and the problem isn't any more than what has evolved with other cameras in the past, I would consider keeping it. I wish I had purchased it from Amazon where I had 30 days to consider the pros and cons - and get more info. I think the fact that Olympus is looking into it - and actually saying they don't know if it is a problem yet scared me into deciding to return it.

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Hi Maria,

There probably isn't an easy answer to your question about return or not to return. It certainly isn't clear if Olympus is going to "fix" this "problem". And I use quotes because it really is going to come down to if they decide the effect is in fact a problem that they need to fix or something that happens infrequently enough that they won't do anything about it. After all, lenses flare when you point them at the sun - some lenses more than others - and nobody demands their lens be repaired as a result. If you don't like the flare performance of a lens you go buy a different lens. But of course there are exceptions even to that, the Canon 24-105L had a freaky flare problem when it first came out that really was a manufacturing problem (I think they were using a clear epoxy someplace where a black epoxy was suppose to be used instead) and Canon fixed them all.

Sounds like you like the camera, all cameras are going to be good at some things and not so good at others. Normally if someone went out of their way to create a problem I'd recommend just getting over it. In your case it sounds like you went out and took some photos you would consider "normal" and saw the problem which perhaps makes it more significant.

Anyway, good luck with your decision. It is always hard to spend a bunch of money on something and then second guess if it is up to your expectations. I would recommend at this point assuming the Olympus is unlikely to fix the issue and instead decide if the problem is important enough to you to return the camera.
--
Ken W

Rebel XT, XTi, Pany G1, LX3, FZ28, Fuji F30, and a lot of 35mm and 4x5 sitting in the closet...

jalywol said:

That being said, if you take this sort of photo with regularity, this may not be the best camera for your uses.

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I wouldn't say I take this kind of photo regularly; however, on occasion I do. I'm going to wait a few days before returning it though as this was the first time I really had an opportunity to try it out - and stayed in the same area as the sun was going down. I haven't had the opportunity to try it elsewhere.

I think I can still enjoy shooting with the E-PL2 with all the other features without "focusing" into or framing the sun. I think the "shock" of all the red dots in so many of my images made me panic a bit. I had just sold my E-PL1 - and only shot this kind of photo once in all the time I had it. Actually I liked the bit of flare I got while shooting in NYC when the sun was peering through the buildings.

jalywol said:

This effect has occurred on other cameras in the past, but definitely not all of them. You will, however, get plain, ordinary lens flare (minus red dots) when taking photos like these on ANY camera. Some lenses are more or less prone to that too, and you can use a lens hood to help reduce that also. (I have taken a number of photos with the sun in frame with my E-PL1, and have definitely gotten the expected amount of lens flare, but have not had any red dots appear in my images along with it.)

Click to expand...

I really appreciate your input, and your comments make a lot of sense. Thank you.

jalywol said:

My personal suggestion would be to try another M43 camera (either one of the Panasonics or the E-PL1) and see if it works better for you.

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I sold my E-PL1 last week (although it's not in the mail yet). I want to keep my promise because I made the deal. This would not be "the" reason I would keep the E-PL2, and I do have the E-620 and LX5. However, the E-PL1/2 would be my favorite of all.

Like I mentioned above, I will give the E-PL2 another few days focusing on the kind of subjects that I mostly enjoy doing and maybe I'll fall in love with it - as I did the E-PL1. I have the VF-2 btw.

Janet - thanks again.

Maria